Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - playoff edition

[MadDevil]

In my best Sebastian Manoscalco voice:

“Noesen, aren’t you embarrassed” ?

"Why...would you do that?"

 

[guitarguyvic]

If that's the plan for a second year in a row after it didn't work the first time then Fire Fitz indeed.

I also can’t believe people are still comfortable with the idea of waiting for the TDL to acquire a 3C. The TDL is for complimentary pieces. At this point a good 3C is a must have for this team. You cannot go into the season gambling on things working out for you on an in-season trade.

We keep vouching for the same approach and expecting different results. Bewildering.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Pius Suter is one of the only Cs that is at all interesting in the free agency market. And he’s probably too pricey after 25 goals. It’s mostly crap. Trade will probably have to be the way to go for a center. Maybe Pageau gets dealt with a new GM for the Isles?

 

[Whaddagoal]

Wow this thread grew like 10 pages in a single day.

Going back to the Dillon injury clip and some swirling rumors. Honestly I don't even understand what happened in that fall.

He twisted his leg and then fell awkwardly? It didn't look like he hit his head on the ice, he fell more on his shoulder..?

Am I missing something that is so grave. He reaction where he got up and couldn't stand I thought was a function of his leg or knee being really screwed up.

it just looked very strange and not clear what was really wrong.

Hope he is ok

 

[MadDevil]

I'd love to get Sam Bennett, but he's probably going to be too expensive unless they somehow dump Dougie and/or Palat this summer. Assuming he even hits the market of course. I'm not sure how feasible keeping him would be for Florida.

 

[dgibb10]

We seriously have someone spending pages arguing that Stefan friggin Noesen should remain in the top six next year? What an insane hill to die on.

We don’t need “true” top six players next to Nico/Timo and Jack/Bratt. But they sure as shit need to be better than the Noesens of the world who before coming here topped out as a 3rd/4th line tweener. And better than the twilight versions of Palat and Haula.

I guess we still haven’t learned that you can’t just throw any scrub into an important role and expect great results. I hope to hell Fitzy boy doesn’t have the same thought process because otherwise get ready for year 13 of dogshit.

Once again obsessing over Noesen while missing the entire point.

I can change the order if it makes you feel better?

Mercer-Nico-Meier
Gritysuk-Jack-Bratt
Palat-Legit 3C-Glass
Cotter-Haula-Noesen

And then, if you need to, you grab a complimentary winger at the deadline.

 

[Edmonton East]

Noesen being that high up is pretty damning. It's now giving me ideas that having someone like him in the top 6 is indeed going to hinder the team's ability to get faster again.

I'd like to see the 22-23 numbers, as well as the 23-24 numbers on these. I'd be absolutely shocked if we had anyone in the top 25 on any of those in 22-23. I'm wondering if we had somebody in the top 25 in any of them on there in 23-24?

A few people will probably say Toffoli as a guess.

This whole "get faster" thing some people are focused on isn't the answer either. That chart is mostly meaningless. I don't think anyone would consider Tkachuk, Vilardi, Stone, etc detrimentally slow players (or slow in general...). Too many ignored variables that need to be considered. Obviously players like Maroon, Perry, Noesen are slow as shit...we don't need a chart to tell us that.

Get faster over simplifies it. They need to get versatile. Not nearly as catchy, I'm aware. You need guys that forecheck well. Guys that are shoot first players and good at it. Guys that are playmakers. Guys comfortable in front of the net, not just standing in the vicinity. Guys that can gain the zone. Guys that can retrieve. Guys that can clear the crease, block shots, make outlet passes, QB the point, get shots through. Culture stuff like guys that will kill someone for a teammate, deter opponents, command the room, unite the team, etc etc etc.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Once again obsessing over Noesen while missing the entire point.

I can change the order if it makes you feel better?

Mercer-Nico-Meier
Gritysuk-Jack-Bratt
Palat-Legit 3C-Glass
Cotter-Haula-Noesen

And then, if you need to, you grab a complimentary winger at the deadline.

I mean this is better but it’s still gambling on Gritsyuk being good enough for the top six and Mercer returning to rookie year form. Palat and Glass on the third line? That’s repeating the same mistakes again. Glass is a fourth liner who can pass on the third line when there are injuries. You put him with an anchor like Palat on that line, it not matter who the 3C is they aren’t gonna be good enough. What you have there in the bottom six is basically two fourth lines with a “legit 3C” thrown in. Maybe if you get a complimentary winger at the deadline that’s legit good enough for the third line you can get away with glass there and move Palat down but again you’re gambling. The more effective path to having a really good team next year would be to replace Palat’s spot with someone better who can actually hang with that 3C and then if you get the complimentary winger at the deadline he can take Glass’ spot.

 

[Ekiru]

Jack Hughes is a center. He will play center the rest of his career. He is not a winger. Every time he plays there, he sucks.

Not really sure how this is even a debate anymore. I dont care if He never wins another faceoff again, he is a center.

Now, does the team need more reliable centers behind him/better center depth? yes, absolutely.

Team should invest in a winger who can take them for him; problem solved youd think

 

[Ekiru]

I'd love to get Sam Bennett, but he's probably going to be too expensive unless they somehow dump Dougie and/or Palat this summer. Assuming he even hits the market of course. I'm not sure how feasible keeping him would be for Florida.

Id assume Dougie or Palat's money go directly to Luke first, no?

 

[guitarguyvic]

Is Glass not a UFA? Asking because everyone seems to be assuming he will be back next year….

 

[Devils731]

Is Glass not a UFA? Asking because everyone seems to be assuming he will be back next year….

He’s currently an RFA but his qualifying offer is high enough that the Devils are unlikely to qualify him.

 

[dgibb10]

Pius Suter is one of the only Cs that is at all interesting in the free agency market. And he’s probably too pricey after 25 goals. It’s mostly crap. Trade will probably have to be the way to go for a center. Maybe Pageau gets dealt with a new GM for the Isles?

I think some of the more feasible options would be 1 of Copp or Compher with retention, where they ship one out to give opportunity to Kaspar.
Henrique would be an interesting one to ask for depending on how you feel.
O'Reilly or Sissons
Nicolas Roy maybe

 

[FooteBahl]

Wow this thread grew like 10 pages in a single day.

Going back to the Dillon injury clip and some swirling rumors. Honestly I don't even understand what happened in that fall.

He twisted his leg and then fell awkwardly? It didn't look like he hit his head on the ice, he fell more on his shoulder..?

Am I missing something that is so grave. He reaction where he got up and couldn't stand I thought was a function of his leg or knee being really screwed up.

it just looked very strange and not clear what was really wrong.

Hope he is ok

I don’t see any awkward twists of his legs or skates stuck in a rut. What’s scary is how it looks like his legs are fine (not favoring one and not slow to get up) and then it just seems he’s loses control of his bottom half on two occasions. When I see stuff like that I think nerve or spinal cord damage

 

[Dylan9z9]

I also can’t believe people are still comfortable with the idea of waiting for the TDL to acquire a 3C. The TDL is for complimentary pieces. At this point a good 3C is a must have for this team. You cannot go into the season gambling on things working out for you on an in-season trade.

We keep vouching for the same approach and expecting different results. Bewildering.

The definition of insanity

 

[dgibb10]

I mean this is better but it’s still gambling on Gritsyuk being good enough for the top six and Mercer returning to rookie year form. Palat and Glass on the third line? That’s repeating the same mistakes again. Glass is a fourth liner who can pass on the third line when there are injuries. You put him with an anchor like Palat on that line, it not matter who the 3C is they aren’t gonna be good enough. What you have there in the bottom six is basically two fourth lines with a “legit 3C” thrown in. Maybe if you get a complimentary winger at the deadline that’s legit good enough for the third line you can get away with glass there and move Palat down but again you’re gambling. The more effective path to having a really good team next year would be to replace Palat’s spot with someone better who can actually hang with that 3C and then if you get the complimentary winger at the deadline he can take Glass’ spot.

Yes, you are going to have to gamble on Gritysuk. He's either a top 6 caliber guy or he's realistically not belonging. This isn't some guy you can play as a 4th liner. That is how prospects work. They are unproven and will not be proven until you actually give them a chance. He's shown he can do it in Russia. You give him his shot, and

Mercer I'm not banking on anything tbh. As is, in his current form he is good enough to be a complimentary top 6 winger. If he gets back to what he was, even better.

And then we're back to the point of unrealistic expectations.


Again, I don't know what 4th lines you are looking at with Palat and Glass caliber guys on them. Who are these teams????? Like it seems to me you're so obsessed with Palat not being worth his contract that you've become unable to properly view him as a hockey player.

Again, I always beg. Please actually go through other teams, look at their roster, look at their depth charts. (and don't forget to consider rentals they bought).

Bottom 6s are not what you seem to think they are.

 

[Bleedred]

I also can’t believe people are still comfortable with the idea of waiting for the TDL to acquire a 3C. The TDL is for complimentary pieces. At this point a good 3C is a must have for this team. You cannot go into the season gambling on things working out for you on an in-season trade.

We keep vouching for the same approach and expecting different results. Bewildering.

I remember reading talk around here about letting Daws backup and just getting goaltending help later on if it doesn't work out. Perhaps at the deadline.

The last time we waited until the deadline to acquire a goalie(s) we were already in junk time.

But anyway, back to the 3C thing, we shouldn't need to wait until the deadline for that at all.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Yes, you are going to have to gamble on Gritysuk. He's either a top 6 caliber guy or he's realistically not belonging. This isn't some guy you can play as a 4th liner. That is how prospects work. They are unproven and will not be proven until you actually give them a chance. He's shown he can do it in Russia. You give him his shot, and

Mercer I'm not banking on anything tbh. As is, in his current form he is good enough to be a complimentary top 6 winger. If he gets back to what he was, even better.

And then we're back to the point of unrealistic expectations.


Again, I don't know what 4th lines you are looking at with Palat and Glass caliber guys on them. Who are these teams????? Like it seems to me you're so obsessed with Palat not being worth his contract that you've become unable to properly view him as a hockey player.

Again, I always beg. Please actually go through other teams, look at their roster, look at their depth charts. (and don't forget to consider rentals they bought).

Bottom 6s are not what you seem to think they are.

I think the possible issue here is that you’re over-rating what Palat is at this point. You want to settle on Glass for the third line - fine, you’re right that it might too much of a luxury to expect him on the fourth line. But not with a completely washed up Palat. I can see it being “good enough” if you’ve got a really good 3C between them, but it’s absolutely a gamble. When was the last time this GM won a gamble at the forward position?

 

[dgibb10]

I think the possible issue here is that you’re over-rating what Palat is at this point. You want to settle on Glass for the third line - fine, you’re right that it might too much of a luxury to expect him on the fourth line. But not with a completely washed up Palat. I can see it being “good enough” if you’ve got a really good 3C between them, but it’s absolutely a gamble. When was the last time this GM won a gamble at the forward position?

Again, you are so obsessed with Palat's contract you fail to see there's still a productive hockey player there. Everything is viewed through the lens of his contract which blinds you.

 

[Edmonton East]

I don’t see any awkward twists of his legs or skates stuck in a rut. What’s scary is how it looks like his legs are fine (not favoring one and not slow to get up) and then it just seems he’s loses control of his bottom half on two occasions. When I see stuff like that I think nerve or spinal cord damage

Hoping for the best obviously and not ruling anything out (who knows)....but back issues like severe spasms or a herniated disc could cause that as well and are much more common than nerve/spinal damage.

 

[JK3]

Sarcasm is what makes this board run.

Well, that and condescension. Depends on what party you're a part of.

More condescending I guess .

 

[Whaddagoal]

I don’t see any awkward twists of his legs or skates stuck in a rut. What’s scary is how it looks like his legs are fine (not favoring one and not slow to get up) and then it just seems he’s loses control of his bottom half on two occasions. When I see stuff like that I think nerve or spinal cord damage

Oh man that would be crazy bad.... I sure hope not.

The only other thing I can think of is he got some sort of head/concussion from some previous hits not on immediate replay from earlier in game or games and that fall was hard to shake him to trigger more concussion symptoms.

And thanks for responding, I know the topic was like 10 pages ago today, but still hot button for me.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Again, you are so obsessed with Palat's contract you fail to see there's still a productive hockey player there. Everything is viewed through the lens of his contract which blinds you.

I don’t give a shit about his contract. His play has cratered, and next season he will be another year older with a decent chance of having gotten worse than he is right now.

Again, I can see him potentially working on the third line in the right conditions. You’re also ignoring the question of what happens when the inevitable top six injury occurs. Palat in the top six would be a disaster for anything more than a few games and Glass isn’t suitable either. You are pushing the boundary with these guys in the third line instead of looking for more versatile players who are perfect on the third line but wouldn’t look out of place temporarily on the second.

 

[JimEIV]

YES I HAVE AND IT IS HEAVEN

Heaven because it tastes so good and also because it will kill you if you eat it like I did. I haven't gotten it again since because after 2 bourbons (or something else gummy based) I will eat an entire bag.

Bourbon and bacon jerky is really glorious. Any pork product and bourbon is pure magic

 

[dgibb10]

I don’t give a shit about his contract. His play has cratered, and next season he will be another year older with a decent chance of having gotten worse than he is right now.

Again, I can see him potentially working on the third line in the right conditions. You’re also ignoring the question of what happens when the inevitable top six injury occurs. Palat in the top six would be a disaster for anything more than a few games and Glass isn’t suitable either. You are pushing the boundary with these guys in the third line instead of looking for more versatile players who are perfect on the third line but wouldn’t look out of place temporarily on the second.

And here is again the problem. Your standards for what is an acceptable 3rd liner is not realistic to a salary cap world.

You want the depth comparable to teams with the best depth, a top 6 that can run with any of the best top 6s, a dcore that is among the best in the league, and be able to have 2 goalies you can trust as well.

And it just isn't feasible.


Attached is every single UFA forward. I'd love to hear you go through and let me know the guys in there you consider an acceptable "top 6 guy"

And which guys would be acceptable "3rd liners" that you would prefer over palat.

Because to me, it seems like your definition of a "3rd liner" is the type of guy who costs about 5 mill, your definition of an acceptable 4th liner is gonna be a guy who costs around 3 mill, and your definition of an acceptable "top 6 guy" is gonna be someone who costs 8 mill+.

I'd imagine you standards for a top pairing dman are about 8 mill as well, probably 6+ for what a 2nd pair guy looks like and 3+ for what a 3rd pairing dman.

And i'd expect you would want an approximately 6 mill goalie and a 3 mill backup.

YOUR STANDARDS ARE NOT REALISTIC IN A SALARY CAP LEAGUE