Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - playoff edition

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I think its pretty certain one of Dougie / Nemec arent here.

Nemec should be the one here, 0/15 for a series where your one job was being the PP1 QB at 9M should be a tradable offense for Dougie.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I still do not for the life of me really understand the Kovacevic contract, unless the plan really is to trade Hamilton this summer

unless they've already made up their minds and will trade at least one of Nemec/Casey? But Nemec's play in the playoffs (hopefully) is giving them pause.

It should be Large Douglas, I will have a soft spot for the guy in my heart since he probably changed the view of NJ with this core in the league's eyes (granted 63M reasons to do so but I digress) he still decided to pick the Devils after years of trying to get a top fish and floundering.

Kovacevic + Nemec at like 7M is better than Hamliton at full price. Some team will take Hamliton the same way we took PK from Nashville back in 2019. Teams need PPQB's and righties are always in interest

 

[NJDevs26]

Nemec should be the one here, 0/15 for a series where your one job was being the PP1 QB at 9M should be a tradable offense for Dougie.

Yeah I get the excuse that Dougie's also just coming back from major injury but man it's not like he's been anywhere near the guy we had two years ago even before that.

 

[dgibb10]

So basically you don’t even care if Pesce has done it before or how comfortable he was with it, your plan is just to hope he gets comfortable with it

Pesce has played on the left side before (It's why I've suggested him). he's the first guy to go over when needed.

My plan is to have a conversation with him, see how he feels, if he'd be comfortable doing it for this one year (assuming Nemec Kovy and Hamilton all stay healthy)

Then you work with it. See how it goes in the offseason, in training camp, in preseason.

My 7D would probably be a LHD, maybe a guy like forbort.

If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, and you adjust. You go get a dumoulin type guy at the deadline

 

[guitarguyvic]

I can’t stand when people demand that fans name names or specify precisely how the GM would acquire better players. Imagine someone here entertained that demand in 2017 by saying Ray should trade Larsson for Taylor Hall. That person would be ridiculed beyond belief.

We aren’t privy to every possible option that exists. Management is, so yes, it is their job to figure it out. They should not be immune from criticism just because external stakeholders can’t articulate a perfect plan for how the objectives will be achieved, that’s a completely unreasonable ask. But it is a good way to shield management.

 

[dgibb10]

Nemec should be the one here, 0/15 for a series where your one job was being the PP1 QB at 9M should be a tradable offense for Dougie.

Dougie Hamilton is not a guy who breaks defense open. He's a cannon from the point and open things up for said players.

In the very specific situation of "no jack hughes, against the best PK in the league" no he's not ideal.

But again, back to the point. WHY ARE WE TRYING TO BUILD A TEAM BASED ON HOW WELL THEY FUNCTION WITHOUT JACK HUGHES?

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Yeah I get the excuse that Dougie's also just coming back from major injury but man it's not like he's been anywhere near the guy we had two years ago even before that.

Wasn't his injury lower body anyway? Only thing that would limit is his ability to get any sort of power on his slapshots from the waist down but again there were signs of his regression before that too.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Lmao…I have a litany of repeated posts talking about how awful our depth is, but yeah, somehow you’ve managed to completely avoid or ignore all those while spotting the ones where I point out our core isn’t as strong as other contenders and concluding that I’m “indirectly” saying they are “the problem”. That is some legendary bad faith engagement.

I mean, you’re literally doubling down on it right now lol

Honestly ironic you’re accusing me of “bad faith” arguments. Don’t worry though, I’ll bow out of responding to you further. I know your schtick and shouldn’t have even engaged in the first place.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Dougie Hamilton is not a guy who breaks defense open. He's a cannon from the point and open things up for said players.

In the very specific situation of "no jack hughes, against the best PK in the league" no he's not ideal.

But again, back to the point. WHY ARE WE TRYING TO BUILD A TEAM BASED ON HOW WELL THEY FUNCTION WITHOUT JACK HUGHES?

He's not using his bomb shot at all this series, he's deferring or throwing shots for hopeless deflections to Noesen. Noesen/Timo/Dougie aren't PP1 players this series, Timo is only good on the half boards and he's rendered useless if teams are keying on his shot from the half boards. Bratt/Nico are doing the heavy lifting on that unit and Carolina is keying in on them big time. Jack wins them a game on the powerplay alone in this series.

 

[JrFischer54]

When you have people here who were complaining that Fitz didn't use the cap space for guys like Dylan Cozens, etc then the argument loses its value.

Zetterlund was a trade he should've been in and he got rightfully roasted here for that but Zetterlund is also asking for 5-6M apparently which led to his departure from SJ. Maybe Kuzmenko? But who else out there is making a difference this round 1 that was traded? It's all elite guys and teams's core pieces making a difference.

Brandon Tanev got a second in this year's market, A GUY WITH 17 POINTS LMAO

Enough with that guy hes done squat since being on the sens and squat in the playoffs. you get shipped off for peanuts at the deadline on a bottom feeder rebuilding team theres definitely a reason the sharks who can use his talent and production shipped him.

also saw talk by others about getting rid of dougie. personally i wouldn't you still need a guy like him and he still has value and contributes.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Enough with that guy hes done squat since being on the sens and squat in the playoffs. you get shipped off for peanuts at the deadline on a bottom feeder rebuilding team theres definitely a reason the sharks who can use his talent and production shipped him.

also saw talk by others about getting rid of dougie. personally i wouldn't you still need a guy like him and he still has value and contributes.

I literally said why he got shipped off in my post above, lol.

Also, Zetterlund wouldn't be a this year add. You're probably extending him if you bring him back to NJ which is why it would've been fine getting him. None of the guys besides Dumo if something is truly up with Dillon are getting extended. Maybe Glass too.

 

[dgibb10]

I can’t stand when people demand that fans name names or specify precisely how the GM would acquire better players. Imagine someone here entertained that demand in 2017 by saying Ray should trade Larsson for Taylor Hall. That person would be ridiculed beyond belief.

We aren’t privy to every possible option that exists. Management should not be immune from criticism just because external stakeholders can’t articulate exactly how the objectives should be achieved, that’s a completely unreasonable ask. But it is a good way to shield management.

But you don't even have concepts of what it looks like.

The point you're missing I don't care about the specific guy(s) and if they match up to who's really available and who's not

It's about looking around the league (into UFA, and potential trades). It's to get you thinking about asset costs, and cap hits, and term associated.

"Move Haula and Palat and get better guys and also replace Dowling Lazar and Tatar and Bastian" sounds great in theory. But where are you getting these guys. The UFA market? Those guys tend to be old, and you have to give them term that they will not be worth at the end. And in trade, what do the assets look like, what does the cap look like.

What assets will we be LEFT with. What will we then be able to do at the deadline after this?


The point is it is okay to have a couple "maybe this guy isn't quite good enough for this role" type questions on the roster heading into a season (eg Glass at 3C, Gritysuk in a top 6). Because a) THATS HOW YOU FIND THE BARGAINS AND THE STEALS. By taking those chances. And if they don't work, you fill those questions with proven guys at the deadline.

You guys would never find a siegenthaler. Because he required taking a chance on a guy who was unproven and putting him into the role you thought (but certainly not a guarantee) he could live up to.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Enough with that guy hes done squat since being on the sens and squat in the playoffs. you get shipped off for peanuts at the deadline on a bottom feeder rebuilding team theres definitely a reason the sharks who can use his talent and production shipped him.

also saw talk by others about getting rid of dougie. personally i wouldn't you still need a guy like him and he still has value and contributes.

what has he contributed in the playoffs, aside from allowing the other team to score goals?

he can't move and his shot isn't accurate anymore.

 

[Mirka the Turka]

We should keep Dougie and just wait 2 more years for Quinn.

Dougie isn't the issue.

 

[JrFischer54]

what has he contributed in the playoffs, aside from allowing the other team to score goals?

he can't move and his shot isn't accurate anymore.

i mean we are all looking to keep nemec because of a small playoff sample and couple games but we are all looking to ditch hamilton off a playoff sample and couple games after coming back missing 20 games to end the season.

now you will mention age and contract sure concerns but hamilton still has value

 

[dgibb10]

He's not using his bomb shot at all this series, he's deferring or throwing shots for hopeless deflections to Noesen. Noesen/Timo/Dougie aren't PP1 players this series, Timo is only good on the half boards and he's rendered useless if teams are keying on his shot from the half boards. Bratt/Nico are doing the heavy lifting on that unit and Carolina is keying in on them big time. Jack wins them a game on the powerplay alone in this series.

I agree. He came back from injury a week ago.

I am not saying him and the PP have been effective this series. But what seems to be "punishing" him for that doesn't in my opinion doesn't make sense in terms of roster building.

Hamilton's role (and noesen's) on the PP was countered by carolinas style and the lack of a gamebreaker to force things open.

So add the gamebreaker in hughes back. If Jack Hughes was out for his career, I would ABSOLUTELY say, Dougie is not what this PP needs. But Jack is gonna be back.

I understand it's frustrating that Dougie is a "PP guy" and our PP is what's letting us down this series.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I mean, you’re literally doubling down on it right now lol

Honestly ironic you’re accusing me of “bad faith” arguments. Don’t worry though, I’ll bow out of responding to you further. I know your schtick and shouldn’t have even engaged in the first place.

Doubling down on what?? I have plainly stated my position and it is not “the core is THE problem”.

Absolutely insane. Did I say anywhere that the core is not good? Did I say they need to be jettisoned or replaced? Did I say anything about that aspect of the team being a higher priority than the depth?

No I didn’t. I have made it abundantly clear in multiple posts that although this core is good enough to contend, they aren’t as good as other contenders’ cores. Why do I mention this? Because it has a direct influence on how important depth is to the construction of this team, and why poor depth is this team’s biggest issue.

You are choosing to not take my statements at face value. Why? Because you can’t handle someone not putting this core on the same pedestal as Edmonton’s or Colorado’s?

 

[Devils Trap]

I think this baseline of a team for next year makes alot of sense.

- Traded Dougie similar to what NSH did with PK and us (not getting into assets cause I have no idea what it would be)
- Daws up to replace Allen at a cheap price
- Haula buyout (1.6 million in savings)
- Palat traded + Prospect and 2nd to dump
- Grits signed to ELC, Glass back and Luke 8 x 8 and Dumo re-signed for similar deal he was on.

Can move around the overall lines of players (dont love Dawson up there but I dont want to force Grits Top 6 at the start) General feeling that we need 1 Top 6 Guy / 2 Bottom 6 guys.

Id love to target cap strung teams (DAL) for a Marchment for example. I know we were after him as a UFA 2 years ago.

UFA options suck, Im fine with going UFA for 4th line but Id rather trade for Top 6 Winger / 3C

 

[Edmonton East]

It's super unfair the rest of the league gets to play with injuries off. Smh. Just more Bettman hating on the Devs! Other teams don't have injury adversity.

Dallas isn't missing one of the best defenseman in the world AND a 1C.
The Panthers didn't go up 2-0 without one of the better dmen in the league (PEDS) and Tkachuk "back" from injury playing very limited minutes.
Jets Ehlers.
Knights Vilardi. 61pts in 71 games btw since I know plenty of ya don't watch other teams at all.
Oilers Ekholm.

So, uh, yea the team can't be complete trash if one of Nico or Hughes miss some time (NOT saying this Devs team as a whole isn't f'd now w/ injuries). Well, I mean they can be and that is reality of course, but that's another obvious reason why they weren't and aren't a serious contender. It's also laughable to say SEE JACK GOT HURT SO IT'S GOOD WE DIDN'T ADDRESS BLATANTY OBVIOUS FORWARD DEPTH ISSUES EARLIER. Uh, ok....remember Jack got hurt frustratingly busting his ass late in a terrible game during a long stretch of underperformance by the team...maybe with actual forward depth that injury doesn't happen, maybe it does. But regardless, to say proactively getting forward depth would have been a bad thing is some of the stupidest shit I've ever seen on here. And hilariously by that logic, I guess they shouldn't get forward depth (especially C) next season either.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I agree. He came back from injury a week ago.

I am not saying him and the PP have been effective this series. But what seems to be "punishing" him for that doesn't in my opinion doesn't make sense in terms of roster building.

Hamilton's role (and noesen's) on the PP was countered by carolinas style and the lack of a gamebreaker to force things open.

So add the gamebreaker in hughes back. If Jack Hughes was out for his career, I would ABSOLUTELY say, Dougie is not what this PP needs. But Jack is gonna be back.

I understand it's frustrating that Dougie is a "PP guy" and our PP is what's letting us down this series.

I think the idea to move Hamliton has to do more with understanding that you can't have that much salary on the right side, his sign of regression due to the injuries piling up + the one thing he's supposed to be very good at and that unit is failing.

Keefe and Colliton have lost me on keeping Noesen on PP1, I would almost go Mercer at the net front this series because he's been better and he can make a random stick handling play that can free up Nico/Timo/Bratt.

 

[dgibb10]

I think this baseline of a team for next year makes alot of sense.

- Traded Dougie similar to what NSH did with PK and us (not getting into assets cause I have no idea what it would be)
- Daws up to replace Allen at a cheap price
- Haula buyout (1.6 million in savings)
- Palat traded + Prospect and 2nd to dump
- Grits signed to ELC, Glass back and Luke 8 x 8 and Dumo re-signed for similar deal he was on.

Can move around the overall lines of players (dont love Dawson up there but I dont want to force Grits Top 6 at the start) General feeling that we need 1 Top 6 Guy / 2 Bottom 6 guys.

Id love to target cap strung teams (DAL) for a Marchment for example. I know we were after him as a UFA 2 years ago.

View attachment 1025033

Dumo at 3 mill x 2 is a VERY ambitious signing.

I think this upcoming UFA is going to have a LOT of sticker shock.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

It's super unfair the rest of the league gets to play with injuries off. Smh. Just more Bettman hating on the Devs! Other teams don't have injury adversity.

Dallas isn't missing one of the best defenseman in the world AND a 1C.
The Panthers didn't go up 2-0 without one of the better dmen in the league (PEDS) and Tkachuk "back" from injury playing very limited minutes.
Jets Ehlers.
Knights Vilardi. 61pts in 71 games btw since I know plenty of ya don't watch other teams at all.
Oilers Ekholm.

So, uh, yea the team can't be complete trash if one of Nico or Hughes miss some time (NOT saying this Devs team as a whole isn't f'd now w/ injuries). Well, I mean they can be and that is reality of course, but that's another obvious reason why they weren't and aren't a serious contender. It's also laughable to say SEE JACK GOT HURT SO IT'S GOOD WE DIDN'T ADDRESS BLATANTY OBVIOUS FORWARD DEPTH ISSUES EARLIER. Uh, ok....remember Jack got hurt frustratingly busting his ass late in a terrible game during a long stretch of underperformance by the team...maybe with actual forward depth that injury doesn't happen, maybe it does. But regardless, to say proactively getting forward depth would have been a bad thing is some of the stupidest shit I've ever seen on here. And hilariously by that logic, I guess they shouldn't get forward depth (especially C) next season either.

And every team you just mentioned might lose their first round series also, not the time to take a victory lap champ

 

[JrFischer54]

I think this baseline of a team for next year makes alot of sense.

- Traded Dougie similar to what NSH did with PK and us (not getting into assets cause I have no idea what it would be)
- Daws up to replace Allen at a cheap price
- Haula buyout (1.6 million in savings)
- Palat traded + Prospect and 2nd to dump
- Grits signed to ELC, Glass back and Luke 8 x 8 and Dumo re-signed for similar deal he was on.

Can move around the overall lines of players (dont love Dawson up there but I dont want to force Grits Top 6 at the start) General feeling that we need 1 Top 6 Guy / 2 Bottom 6 guys.

Id love to target cap strung teams (DAL) for a Marchment for example. I know we were after him as a UFA 2 years ago.

UFA options suck, Im fine with going UFA for 4th line but Id rather trade for Top 6 Winger / 3C

View attachment 1025033

definitely need two top 6 guys and push the players down mercer 3rd line nose 4th line. these guys were no shows this season and you got them in the same if not promoted roles next season with a rookie no less.

 

[Devils Trap]

Dumo at 3 mill x 2 is a VERY ambitious signing.

I think this upcoming UFA is going to have a LOT of sticker shock.

Idk the exact value, he just had a 3.16 x 2. So taking about the same to be on a contender - if we need to add a 3rd year w/e

 

[thebeernerd]

But again, back to the point. WHY ARE WE TRYING TO BUILD A TEAM BASED ON HOW WELL THEY FUNCTION WITHOUT JACK HUGHES?

I'm not saying this is a productive exercise or one that I agree with, but he's not going to play many 82-game seasons and this team will need a Plan B.