Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - playoff edition

[Triumph]

Yeah it’s the playoffs. I think they do care about doing their job and working hard. I don’t think that’s the same thing as genuine enthusiasm and passion. I can be the hardest worker in the office because of my work ethic and values, while still being miserable doing it.

Let's ask a third time, very directly. Did the 1995-2003 Devils, the best version of this franchise we will probably ever see, exhibit 'genuine enthusiasm and passion?' Is that the thing that you remember about those teams?

No on is disagreeing that the depth here stinks. What we disagree on is the relationship and impact the core’s quality also has on that.

Yeah Vegas’ trio is starting to reach an age where I’d rather have our guys. But that aside, in a vacuum, no I wouldn’t pick our guys over them.

I mean, that's just ignorance. You among all people here call health a skill and Mark Stone has missed half his team's games the last 4 years. He's one hit away from his back giving out on him entirely. Eichel has also played one healthy season in 4, this one. Again, it's just grass is greenerism.

 

[NJDevs26]

Let’s also not put everyone in the core in the same box…Nico has three goals in four games and does a lot of grunt work, he’s consistently shown up. Bratt and Timo have one goal in four games each (and in Timo’s case he’s basically a net zero after giving away a goal with stupidity in Game 2), that’s not really good enough on balance, especially when added in with their prior playoff history. Bratt went back to perimeter hockey after actually going to the middle to get his goal in Game 2.

 

[NJDevs26]

Let's ask a third time, very directly. Did the 1995-2003 Devils, the best version of this franchise we will probably ever see, exhibit 'genuine enthusiasm and passion?' Is that the thing that you remember about those teams?



I mean, that's just ignorance. You among all people here call health a skill and Mark Stone has missed half his team's games the last 4 years. He's one hit away from his back giving out on him entirely. Eichel has also played one healthy season in 4, this one. Again, it's just grass is greenerism.

There is one major difference between ‘95-03 and now ‘besides’ the low hanging fruit of talent - ACCOUNTABILITY. This is what people mean when they bring up Stevens throwing skates in the locker room, Lou firing coaches left and right or Holik/Claude being pricks.. none of them would stand for the on again, off again effort of this group. There hasn’t been enough accountability with these doofuses imo and that starts from the top (Fitz) on down.

 

[RANDOMH3RO]

Disappointing end to this season, but I refuse to be negative about the core of this team. It’s a fun group to cheer for, the hand we have been dealt is pretty good all things considered. There’s a ton of stuff they did right this season. No other team is dealing with not having their best player and half their D group. Got a summer to address some scoring when this season ends, a lot of potential for next season.

The goal for this year in my mind was get back to the playoffs and play better defensively. They passed both of those goals, defensively the team is a contender compared to last year. If the same thing happens for the scoring this summer devils are a contender next year. I don’t see the point in being a downer about that, things could be a lot worse. Any core is lucky to win 1 cup, devils took another step toward that this year. Next year can be another step.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Let’s also not put everyone in the core in the same box…Nico has three goals in four games and does a lot of grunt work, he’s consistently shown up. Bratt and Timo have one goal in four games each (and in Timo’s case he’s basically a net zero after giving away a goal with stupidity in Game 2), that’s not really good enough on balance, especially when added in with their prior playoff history. Bratt went back to perimeter hockey after actually going to the middle to get his goal in Game 2.

Why are we simply doing the GOALS = GOOD, EVERYTHING ELSE = BAD

Timo also created the 1st goal last night and has been creating chances left and right. Yes, he needs to produce more. .

Bratt has 4 points in 4 games.

These three guys are showing up. They all have a 62% or better xG%. Its the rest of the schlubs that need to produce.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Let’s also not put everyone in the core in the same box…Nico has three goals in four games and does a lot of grunt work, he’s consistently shown up. Bratt and Timo have one goal in four games each (and in Timo’s case he’s basically even after giving away a goal with stupidity in Game 2), that’s not really good enough on balance. Bratt went back to perimeter hockey after actually going to the middle to get his goal in Game 2.

I agree here. Nico has done his job this season and in this series.

I think one of the issues with these arguments about the core is criticism is based on unrealistic expectations vs recognition of what they are. Bratt, for example. He’s a really good player. I like him a lot. He’s a proven point producer and play driver and skilled guy at this point. He’s an also primarily an assist guy. He’s more of a Joe Thornton than a Auston Matthews. On a team that lacks basically any natural goal scorers. I don’t think it’s realistic anymore to think that he can be a big time goal scorer. That’s not who he is. Hence why adding more natural goal scorers to this roster is essential.

Timo is sort of different in my eyes. He’s basically a play driving grinder who can get a lot of shots on net. Hes overpaid for what he is, and doesn’t seem to fit well with anyone else on this roster. He’s not consistently reliable like you’d expect a core player to be. He’s taking up the “goal scorer” role on this team without actually scoring enough goals. Again, I’m not sure we can expect that to change at this point.

If you recognize what these guys really are, then you shift the criticism from the players to the guy who assembled said players. The construction is flawed.

 

[JrFischer54]

This is absurd, most of the series this team has been playing their asses off and they're the only guys that have produced points. Jack makes this series 2-2 at the very least. This is the "playoff hockey" style that we've needed since the competitive window opened.

game 1 no show game 4 95% no show with the season on the line and a backup goalie in. powerplay is horrible and pk is somehow even worse

 

[NJDevs26]

Why are we simply doing the GOALS = GOOD, EVERYTHING ELSE = BAD

Timo also created the 1st goal last night and has been creating chances left and right. Yes, he needs to produce more. .

Bratt has 4 points in 4 games.

These three guys are showing up. They all have a 62% or better xG%. Its the rest of the schlubs that need to produce.

Giving away a goal with a stupid decision is bad yes…I really don’t understand why you and a few others always have to white knight for a team that’s underachieved far more than not the last couple years, you guys complain about other posters posts more than any of you do the team collectively no showing for the first period of a playoff game at home, that kind of stuff is on the core too. It’s not just about goals or other stats.

 

[guitarguyvic]

only if you’re literally looking for the phrase “they don’t care”. Otherwise you’ve been saying it.




Those are obviously saying the guys don’t care enough. You’re being completely disingenuous if you think those statements aren’t saying they don’t care enough

Unless you think guys playing with no passion or fire are commonly thought to care a lot; which would be a crazy thing to think.

There is a difference between working hard and enjoying what you’re doing. The two can be related but they can also be mutually exclusive. If you don’t believe that’s possible I don’t know what to tell you. I’ve seen it in plenty of other areas outside of hockey.

 

[Triumph]

Let’s also not put everyone in the core in the same box…Nico has three goals in four games and does a lot of grunt work, he’s consistently shown up. Bratt and Timo have one goal in four games each (and in Timo’s case he’s basically even after giving away a goal with stupidity in Game 2), that’s not really good enough on balance. Bratt went back to perimeter hockey after actually going to the middle to get his goal in Game 2.

Please re-watch Dawson Mercer's goal from Game 3.

Nobody cares which people are scoring goals so long as someone's doing it. Does anyone remember that Patrik Elias had like 2 goals from the Florida series on in 2012? I don't think so. You cannot win a series with no contributions at all from more than half your forwards, unless your top forwards are playing extremely well and getting very lucky.

There is one major difference between ‘95-03 and now ‘besides’ the low hanging fruit of talent - ACCOUNTABILITY. This is what people mean when they bring up Stevens throwing skates in the locker room, Lou firing coaches left and right or Holik/Claude being pricks.. none of them would stand for the on again, off again effort of this group. There hasn’t been enough accountability with these doofuses imo and that starts from the top (Fitz) on down.

You're sidestepping the question also but that's fine - do you think such an environment is likely to produce players who exhibit a genuine enthusiasm for the game?

 

[JrFischer54]

you look around at the playoff contenders and you just see a different mindset on the bench different drive i dunno how else to explain it even with jack i dont think this core has the horses to get it done in the playoffs.
but i'm done talking about the core


1 whats with luke? is his injury shoulder related?

2. how stupid that in order to review if there should be a penalty called they have to issue a bogus 5 min penalty first? why not do that with a missed high sticking call or any other non viewed call to get another look? or is there only certain ways to trigger a review?

 

[RANDOMH3RO]

Giving away a goal with a stupid decision is bad yes…I really don’t understand why you and a few others always have to white knight for a team that’s underachieved far more than not the last couple years, you guys complain about other posters posts more than any of you do the team collectively no showing for the first period of a playoff game at home, that kind of stuff is on the core too. It’s not just about goals or other stats.

I wouldn’t call it “white knighting”. I think it’s called just being a fan.

 

[JrFischer54]

There is one major difference between ‘95-03 and now ‘besides’ the low hanging fruit of talent - ACCOUNTABILITY. This is what people mean when they bring up Stevens throwing skates in the locker room, Lou firing coaches left and right or Holik/Claude being pricks.. none of them would stand for the on again, off again effort of this group. There hasn’t been enough accountability with these doofuses imo and that starts from the top (Fitz) on down.

i agree with this. its actually really spot on the guys listed are greats all time sure but there are plenty of other locker room guys that raise their intensity drive come playoff time. you see it on vegas or tampa def the panthers.

 

[NJDevs26]

I wouldn’t call it “white knighting”. I think it’s called just being a fan.

If anyone wants to be a blind optimist I’m more than fine with that, and if the negative posters have a problem with that that’s on them - it’s the collectively tilting at windmills by the ‘positive’ posters to complain about everyone else’s negativity and look for dunking attempts when the team is struggling that gets old. If you’re going to be that staunchly behind the team then why should you care what other random fans think or say? That’s what people refer to when they say white knighting…the constant need to counter every single post or taking point by the complainers.

 

[JrFischer54]

also whats up with steve valiquette throwing daggers on twitter at the devils? hot dang!

 

[guitarguyvic]

Let's ask a third time, very directly. Did the 1995-2003 Devils, the best version of this franchise we will probably ever see, exhibit 'genuine enthusiasm and passion?' Is that the thing that you remember about those teams?

I already answered this. But yeah sure I’ll do it again with another example. One of our star core hall of fame players ripping off a Ranger’s sweater and defiantly kicking it like a piece of trash - definitely not very emotional or passionate.

I mean, that's just ignorance. You among all people here call health a skill and Mark Stone has missed half his team's games the last 4 years. He's one hit away from his back giving out on him entirely. Eichel has also played one healthy season in 4, this one. Again, it's just grass is greenerism.

Ah right, health is important now that it helps your argument. I’ll give you that a case can be made about our trio being preferable to Vegas’. Unfortunately there’s still many more cores that are better.

 

[MartyOwns]

can you guys just take the day off or something?

 

[Triumph]

I already answered this. But yeah sure I’ll do it again with another example. One of our star core hall of fame players ripping off a Ranger’s sweater and defiantly kicking it like a piece of trash - definitely not very emotional or passionate.

That was in a preseason game, the time when the passion really comes to the forefront.

Ah right, health is important now that it helps your argument. I’ll give you that a case can be made about our trio being preferable to Vegas’. Unfortunately there’s still many more cores that are better.

Health is a skill, I've never argued otherwise. When issues become chronic, in the case of Stone and Jack Hughes, they become a problem. When issues are clear and obvious flukes, like a guy being hit in the face with a puck, they have nothing to do with skill and several more years of hockey with few games missed might bear that sort of thing out.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Nico, Bratt, and Timo have scored 5 of the teams 7 goals and have recorded 9 out of the 15 points awarded this series.

Nico and Bratt dragged this team into the playoffs kicking and screaming and now people want to complain they aren’t doing enough. Literally what more do you want them to do?

 

[Lou is God]

also whats up with steve valiquette throwing daggers on twitter at the devils? hot dang!

Always remind them, one cup since the cure of Polio. Or WW2.

 

[NJDevs26]

also whats up with steve valiquette throwing daggers on twitter at the devils? hot dang!

LOL who knows or cares, but his picture is next to unprofessional in the dictionary

 

[Davegarri]

also whats up with steve valiquette throwing daggers on twitter at the devils? hot dang!

I had to double take to make sure it wasn't a fake account. That dude is a clown.

Also had some negative comments on Markstrom in the replies to Rag fan trolls.

 

[HellOnIce]

There is one major difference between ‘95-03 and now ‘besides’ the low hanging fruit of talent - ACCOUNTABILITY. This is what people mean when they bring up Stevens throwing skates in the locker room, Lou firing coaches left and right or Holik/Claude being pricks.. none of them would stand for the on again, off again effort of this group. There hasn’t been enough accountability with these doofuses imo and that starts from the top (Fitz) on down.

They sure did so much accounting during ::checks notes::: lame ass playoff runs in non-existent 1996,97,98,99, and 2002. Not too mention - 2001 had way too many let downs early in that playoff run with extra OT and games they should've flattened Carolina and Toronto and let it go way too long.

 

[thebeernerd]

also whats up with steve valiquette throwing daggers on twitter at the devils? hot dang!

I demand a Vallie/Fischler online slap fight. Please. The people demand it.

Well, I do, at least.

 

[NjDevsRR]