Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part VI

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why is a factual statement misleading? lol

yes, the literal definition of a comeback win is coming from behind to win. Whether its 1 goal or 4.

the fact that you want to throw another caveat into is on you

I dont feel like going back and forth with you on semantics though so lets just say you won this argument, mmkay?
It’s misleading because the poster in question referenced a multiple goal comeback, and you know damn well he’s not talking about the team’s ability to overcome a meager one goal deficit - something that more than half the league has done like a dozen times each already this season.

Public relations, as usual.
 
the forward prospect pool is not empty, they have a couple of guys who will likely end up as middle 6 wingers, which is exactly what this team needs right now.

Like who? Who besides Grits has any actual likelyhood of making the top6? Whose our best C prospect?

they have a lot of cap space tied up in useless players. Palat, Haula, even Mercer. I think they can get better usage of Hamilton's $9 mill. Bastian does nothing. Tatar does nothing.

That's just dreamworld thinking, there is no guarantees that Fitz will get rid of any of those guys or that he can replace them with better options. It's really hard to get rid of bad contracts.
 
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The biggest non-injury this year is the decline in Luke Hughes's play. He played like a superstar in December and is playing like a 3rd pairing D since. I think Pesce has declined somewhat too but Luke has especially fallen apart and it's totally unclear why that happened - he is still sometimes the fastest skater on the ice, but earlier he was by far the fastest skater on the ice.

It has everyone looking worse.
He probably has been playing injured. There’s been a couple of times this season where it’s looked like he’s been hurt only for him to somehow come back.
 
Like who? Who besides Grits has any actual likelyhood of making the top6? Whose our best C prospect?



That's just dreamworld thinking, there is no guarantees that Fitz will get rid of any of those guys or that he can replace them with better options. It's really hard to get rid of bad contracts.
Yeah exactly. We were guaranteed to get middle six help at the deadline, how did that pan out?
 
Never liked the Subban trade. Thought he was showing signs of being done his last two years in Nashville. Similar situation for Wayne Simmonds....three years too late on him as well.

And Gusev was another complete waste of a 2nd and 3rd round pick....Shero had a terrible habit of wasting those. I hated all those 2nd and 3rd round picks being tossed around like candy.... specifically that summer.

Getting the #1 overall was a big deal. Jack is/was a franchise changer ...but I find hard to credit a GM for how ping pong balls fall then taking the consensus #1 overall pick. I mean you don't do much to get a #1OA.
I agee that he didn't use them well, but the average value of a 2nd or 3rd round pick is miniscule, but you can still turn them into serious value.
The Caps got Logan Thompson (who i wanted instead of Markstrom because he is younger, cheaper and was so undervalued) for a '24 3rd & '25 3rd. Turn one of those into a 2nd and you've got yourself one of the 5-10 best goalies making less than a million this year and then after he played great this year (basically identically to the 100 games he played for Vegas from 21-24) they extended him for 6 years at 5.85m.
 
Really how many down 3 goals

how many teams league-wide have comeback to win down 3 goals? You act like this is a normal thing.
Like who? Who besides Grits has any actual likelyhood of making the top6? Whose our best C prospect?



That's just dreamworld thinking, there is no guarantees that Fitz will get rid of any of those guys or that he can replace them with better options. It's really hard to get rid of bad contracts.

they already have 4 really good top 6 players. A lot of contending teams don't even have that. They need secondary scoring. Yes, I think Lenni or Grits can be that. Or make a trade. Or go the free agency route. This notion that this roster is somehow set in stone is ridiculous.

if you already know the outcome, why bother watching and posting here? That is the stuff I'll never understand.
 
Yeah exactly. We were guaranteed to get middle six help at the deadline, how did that pan out?

you're right man, team is cooked. Might as well fold the franchise. They'll never, EVER be able to acquire a couple of middle 6 forwards in the offseason. What a tall task!

am I doing it right?
 
why is a factual statement misleading? lol

yes, the literal definition of a comeback win is coming from behind to win. Whether its 1 goal or 4.

the fact that you want to throw another caveat into is on you

I dont feel like going back and forth with you on semantics though so lets just say you won this argument, mmkay?
I mean when I specifically call out two factual examples and scores which you disregarded to fit your narrative which I don’t get why everyone agrees this team is soft
 
you're right man, team is cooked. Might as well fold the franchise. They'll never, EVER be able to acquire a couple of middle 6 forwards in the offseason. What a tall task!

am I doing it right?
No you're not doing it right. The point is that you treat assumptions that fit your bottomless positive outlook as guarantees.
 
They got Cody Glass and also it didn't make sense to pay a huge price for middle six help, given the prices being paid and where the Devils were at in the standings.
Their place in the standings has been the same virtually all season. Unless you're talking about their actual record. Nonetheless the point stands - assumptions were made about what would happen at the TDL and treated as inevitable, and lo and behold, it wasn't a sure thing like presented.
 
No you're not doing it right. The point is that you treat assumptions that fit your bottomless positive outlook as guarantees.

no, they aren't guarantees and I never state them as such. I like to discuss all possibilities, not just arbitrarily decide that everything will 100% not work out every single time.

and even if it was, how is it any different than just assuming that nothing will ever work out like you do?
 
Do you see how much we were asking him to "upgrade"....

More center depth, a #1 goaltender, a LHD, a RHD, couple of bottom 6 forwards, maybe another top 6 winger....

At that point, is really just "upgrades"?

We have Luke, Jack, Bratt, Nico, Meier and Dougie and STILL needed 6 or 7 "upgraded" players just to be barely competitive?

Something seems very wrong with this picture.
Adding a center, any center, that wouldn't make us rely on playing Dowling wouldn't have been a huge ask. Everything he did this offseason aside from not doing that, was very successful to me.
 
I agee that he didn't use them well, but the average value of a 2nd or 3rd round pick is miniscule, but you can still turn them into serious value.
The Caps got Logan Thompson (who i wanted instead of Markstrom because he is younger, cheaper and was so undervalued) for a '24 3rd & '25 3rd. Turn one of those into a 2nd and you've got yourself one of the 5-10 best goalies making less than a million this year and then after he played great this year (basically identically to the 100 games he played for Vegas from 21-24) they extended him for 6 years at 5.85m.

Just stop it with Thompson we went that route with Vitek using minimal picks to get him and he was ok for a year then sucked. Wasn’t happening again
 
no, they aren't guarantees and I never state them as such. I like to discuss all possibilities, not just arbitrarily decide that everything will 100% not work out every single time.

and even if it was, how is it any different than just assuming that nothing will ever work out like you do?
Your discourse is always so dishonest. You did present it as a sure thing - this is evidenced by how you would respond to any and all concerns about the depth of this team with proclamations that it will be addressed at the deadline and it's not a big deal. Essentially dismissing these concerns. The insinuation was clear.

I don't do the same thing that you do in reverse. You just like to portray anyone that challenges your constant PR'ing this way.
 
Your discourse is always so dishonest. You did present it as a sure thing - this is evidenced by how you would respond to any and all concerns about the depth of this team with proclamations that it will be addressed at the deadline and it's not a big deal. Essentially dismissing these concerns. The insinuation is clear.

I don't do the same thing that you do in reverse. You just like to portray anyone that challenges your constant PR'ing this way.

two things

1) once Jack Hughes went out, they had no business spending big at the deadline. That happened what, 4 days before the deadline? So no, we didnt know about that.

and

2) the prices at the deadline ended up being so exorbitant that it wasnt worth it. But let me guess...you knew that that was going to be the case, right?

you absolutely do the same thing. Its fine that you don't see it because basically everyone else does.
 
You think everyone else was offering 2 years to Dillon and what put it over was the 3rd year? I don't believe that. The Devils can just buy the third year of Dillon out and still come out ahead with Silayev's ELC.

I think the Devils have been out of the free agency game for too long that people have forgotten how it works. You pay 20% too much or a year+ too much, and in some cases both.
The D is generally better in that some of the horrific lapses from last year seem to be fewer. But offense and defense are correlated. If you cannot cycle and pass then it's more pressure on the D.

The skill and speed of thought on this team aside from a few, with these injuries, fuggedaboutit.
 
The biggest non-injury this year is the decline in Luke Hughes's play. He played like a superstar in December and is playing like a 3rd pairing D since. I think Pesce has declined somewhat too but Luke has especially fallen apart and it's totally unclear why that happened - he is still sometimes the fastest skater on the ice, but earlier he was by far the fastest skater on the ice.

It has everyone looking worse.
I have a feeling luke is banged up more than we're being told. he's really looked noticeably different since the beginning of the season
 
I have a feeling luke is banged up more than we're being told. he's really looked noticeably different since the beginning of the season
Broadcast said the thing that kept him out yesterday was a groin.

That can linger so it’s possible he’s been playing through that for awhile. Although, I also think Luke is playing better lately.
 
two things

1) once Jack Hughes went out, they had no business spending big at the deadline. That happened what, 4 days before the deadline? So no, we didnt know about that.

and

2) the prices at the deadline ended up being so exorbitant that it wasnt worth it. But let me guess...you knew that that was going to be the case, right?

you absolutely do the same thing. Its fine that you don't see it because basically everyone else does.
No I didn't know that would be the case - which is why I knew better than to condescendingly march around here telling everyone our issues would be fixed at the TDL, like you were.

If I did what you do, I would have said that the issues would not be fixed at the TDL. There's a difference between saying that vs. warning people that your insistence of it was not guaranteed and at best 50/50 possibility.

Your PR campaign just never ends, and you have no qualms about engaging in intellectual dishonesty in your efforts.
 
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two things

1) once Jack Hughes went out, they had no business spending big at the deadline. That happened what, 4 days before the deadline? So no, we didnt know about that.

and

2) the prices at the deadline ended up being so exorbitant that it wasnt worth it. But let me guess...you knew that that was going to be the case, right?

you absolutely do the same thing. Its fine that you don't see it because basically everyone else does.
As far as #2 goes...dude did you just become a hockey fan this year? Prices at the deadline are ALWAYS exorbitant, especially in the modern era where you have like twenty teams in a playoff hunt and a handful of sellers - that's why I hated that Fitz left everything till the last minute when other teams were making moves before Four Nations. We had a lot more leverage when the Devils were in good position, but by the time Fitz woke up out of hibernation he was like pizza guy coming into the room with everything on fire.
 
As far as #2 goes...dude did you just become a hockey fan this year? Prices at the deadline are ALWAYS exorbitant, especially in the modern era where you have like twenty teams in a playoff hunt and a handful of sellers - that's why I hated that Fitz left everything till the last minute when other teams were making moves before Four Nations. We had a lot more leverage when the Devils were in good position, but by the time Fitz woke up out of hibernation he was like pizza guy coming into the room with everything on fire.
He knows that the TDL can be volatile and not pan out as expected. But to acknowledge that before the TDL would have meant tempering the outlook about the team at the time. And doing it now afterward would be admitting it was a baseless assumption to make. So now we resort to more dishonest discourse to cover our tracks. Same old story.
 
As far as #2 goes...dude did you just become a hockey fan this year? Prices at the deadline are ALWAYS exorbitant, especially in the modern era where you have like twenty teams in a playoff hunt and a handful of sellers - that's why I hated that Fitz left everything till the last minute when other teams were making moves before Four Nations. We had a lot more leverage when the Devils were in good position, but by the time Fitz woke up out of hibernation he was like pizza guy coming into the room with everything on fire.
Prices this year seemed more inflated than normal, imo.

For me, I doubt prices were cheaper earlier in the year either. Prices were so high even some people you would expect to move, didn’t, as teams just held onto guys when they didn’t get what they wanted.
 
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