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Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

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VoidCreature said:
When Jack Hughes is healthy he's a top 10 forward in the NHL, and I believe he can make it to the top 5. He is not the problem. The problem is we don't have enough offensive talent around him, specifically goal scorers.
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No he isn't. He was on his way to top 10 for 1 season, 2 years ago. Zero shot at top 5. Ever. Again, the reason many of you are so shockingly disappointed each season is you drastically overrate Jack Hughes. This post is a perfect example. So obvious how many folks only watch the Devs, so we end up living in two different worlds. Great player, but not at all what many of you think he is.

The dude played with Bratt ALL SEASON with statistically the easiest deployments of any top 6 line in the entire NHL. Yet Jack Hughes was still only 62nd at ES among forwards in pts/60min (500min+). And he has to be producing points to be in that conversation (top 5 or 10) because he does f*** all in other areas of the game for an "elite" player. Still can't be effortlessly deployed as a top 6 C at nearly 24. Keefe was forced to handle Jack with kid gloves all season because he hasn't rounded out other parts of a top Cs game, including but not limited to being at least serviceable at the dot. This is just a fact. Look at deployment metrics on moneypuck, some of which I've noted before. It screws Nico and the rest of the in game line deployments.

And that's all assuming perfect rehab and health going forward. Maybe he stops falling down a hysterical and unprecedented 50 times a game too.
 
Clam Jensen said:
I think the problem is, is that there’s a ton of incredibly insightful discourse on this board supported by facts, analytics, and emotion, but when you start saying wild shit like “we need to rid the organization of the Hughes’” people are going to justifiably drag you for it because it’s absurd. Just because we think you’re nuts doesn’t mean we’re against being critical of the team. Quite frankly, intentionally provocative statements you consistently make need to be called out for what they are or else every discussion would devolve into shit-flinging low-IQ nonsense.

TL;DR: you said wild stuff and got appropriately called out for it, so just own it.
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There's a huge difference between disagreement and denigration. Unfortunately, there are some here who can't control themselves and use denigration as part of their debating skillset.
 
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Clam Jensen said:
I think the problem is, is that there’s a ton of incredibly insightful discourse on this board supported by facts, analytics, and emotion, but when you start saying wild shit like “we need to rid the organization of the Hughes’” people are going to justifiably drag you for it because it’s absurd. Just because we think you’re nuts doesn’t mean we’re against being critical of the team. Quite frankly, intentionally provocative statements you consistently make need to be called out for what they are or else every discussion would devolve into shit-flinging low-IQ nonsense.

TL;DR: you said wild stuff and got appropriately called out for it, so just own it.
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Why is it absurd?
Its not that wild though. Do teams not trade away top players?
Just because you think its wild or radical doesn't mean its not an option that should be considered.
I have yet to hear a compelling argument as to why its such a terrible idea.

If someone believes that the team's roster needs major surgery and does not believe in this core (13, 86, 63, 28) then why is so absurd to consider one of them has to go?

Timo - contract is an impediment. Numbers don't justify it, could be very hard to move in a trade and get reasonable value back. Has no-movement clause also.
Jesper - Contract value is good - redundant skills with Jack though. I view him as a healthier version of Jack. Would rather keep him than Jack.
Nico - Still a good player and top 6 two-way centers are the most valuable position in the sport. You need a player like this in your lineup one way or the other. Future contract could be an issue but I'm betting Nico takes a reasonable deal if he stays.

This only leaves Jack. Who is the most injury prone of the 4, lacks strength and board play to compete in tight checking games, possibly maturity issues. Miles vary on those opinions but this is my view.


And i think its perfectly reasonable to say you may not get the value back in a Jack trade. And usually whoever gets the "best player" in the deal wins the trade. That being said, I look at the holes in our roster, the cap is about to get very tight once Luke gets his deal. Which means you are really going to have to stretch every dollar to fill out the depth we so desperately need, because this core 4 is not strong enough to pull the weight all on their own.

This is a fair argument. Its not radical. Its not absurd.
The only reason you think its absurd is because you're emotionally tied to Jack. You want so desperately for him to meet these unattainable expectations you have for him. And here we are, another year wasted, another year where he has a serious injury and lord only knows how that affects him downstream.
 
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VoidCreature said:
When Jack Hughes is healthy he's a top 10 forward in the NHL, and I believe he can make it to the top 5. He is not the problem. The problem is we don't have enough offensive talent around him, specifically goal scorers.
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Hughes skill isn’t the problem his inability to stay healthy is. All the talent does no good if your out half the year. Also stay on your feet for more then 15 seconds please
 
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JimEIV said:
Jack really is still a puppy. Even though he's going into his 7th NHL season he's only turning 24 in May.

Bratt, Nico and Meier.... I think they're a little different...well I think they should be the more seasoned vets of the team is what I mean.

I'm not sure how long we can keep doing this without any results but I'm glad I don't have to make the decisions.
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26 is statistically the peak year of production on an average NHL career span. That's actually probably skewing even younger given how many kids go straight into the league now vs spending a 1-3 years cutting their teeth in the AHL.
 
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Billdo said:
If you had to pick one to move...

Nico, Jack, or Bratt

Who are you moving? I'm curious.
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For me it would be Bratt because he would return the most for the least investment value. Jack would bring a haul and a half for sure but his opportunity cost at being #1oa means it also cost you investment value. Nico is our Bergeron and to me is irreplaceable and you'd spend 2 bodies trying to net his 2 way value.

I don't think any of them are going anywhere soon though.
 
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