Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

[NJDevs26]

I'm not sure where this is going to be honest.

I originally made a point that the Markstrom trade was risky. That's all. That is was funny that the Caps traded for a goalie 10 days later, for far less. Funny.

I got shouted at that it wasn't or never was seen as a risky trade. Bullshit, it was and is. Now we might end up with Jake f***ing Allen as the backstop.

Funny in that "I want to jump off a f***ing building" kinda way.

Markstrom was risky compared to everyone else how…because he’s 35? Okay fine but there was literally no goalie traded that was without risk, after all our bad handling and luck at that position I can hardly blame Fitz for ponying up on the ‘least risky’ option this time around.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Thompson had multiple runs in Vegas where he was the 1 with better stats, played in playoff games where he didn't shrivel like Vitek did granted the sample size is small for both but people wanted to cry seeing Vanecek in net in 2023.

There's been multiple people who banged on the table on this very board for Thompson when he was in Vegas, issue is Fitz was never going to go with another goalie like that because if he failed it was his ass but a Thompson trade try was always going to better than a Vanecek trade try at their respective time periods, not sure how you're pulling a gotcha on a poster for the mere suggestion of it.

what? lol no he didnt!

he has played in 4 career playoff games

 

[SansaStark]

jesus f***ing christ dude

I rest my case.

The Habs would pound us into the dirt right now. And Suzuki is equal or arguably better than Nico. So again …..what case are you resting?

I’d rather have two centers like that than one and the other injured for half a year never getting an offseason to work out and get his body right.

Plus a top 6 winger, plus picks to build out the roster with depth ELCs assuming you draft well. That sounds like a flexible roster with strength down the middle.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

what? lol no he didnt!

he has played in 4 career playoff games

And Thompson had a .920 meanwhile Vitek played in 3 for the Caps was hovering a .800 and then we saw him 2023 and understood why.

 

[MartyOwns]

Jack/Luke for Nick Suzuki & Slafkovsky and two 1st round picks (maybe 1 if it’s high in a good draft year). I’d do that in a heartbeat.

Nico/Suzuki down the middle? Yea I can get on board with that. You’d have a chance at having a full season with both your centers healthy. Although I guess with Nico you never know either! LOL

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Far be it for me to defend Fitz but acting like there was a big difference between Vegas’s 27-year old Thompson - 95 starts (2.67 GAA and .912 save percentage) or the Caps’ 26-year old Vitek - 75 starts (2.68 GAA and .908 save percentage) when they were both traded is just being a hindsight cherry picker.

Vitek being used a gotcha towards a hindsight Thompson move is also highly laughable

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

And Thompson had a .920 meanwhile Vitek played in 3 for the Caps was hovering a .800 and then we saw him 2023 and understood why.

yeah man totally always cool to make sweeping judgments based on 4 games.

what are we DOING here?

 

[SansaStark]

View attachment 999108

Totally agree.
Without a bold move like that this team is headed for mediocrity followed quickly by a new GM and draft lottery discussions.

 

[NJDevs26]

Look I’m as down on this group as anyone but demanding another rebuild at this point just shows you’re detached from the team, we’ve had over a decade of two rebuilds and now we’re supposed to start back at ground zero again in a market just starting to get a foothold in terms of a fanbase? Tell that to the fans going to games and watching. Pulling the plug entirely and demanding a rebuild with a locked up and still comparatively young core is literally quitting at the first sign of trouble.

Will they have to shake up the core a la Lou dealing off Arnott and Sykora? That’s absolutely on the table at this point, even more so if they flame out of the playoffs entirely. But total mass destruction, gtfo with this stuff, it’s basically trolling at this point. And good luck tanking for ten years and hoping to get a player even as good as Jack or Nico in the draft, ask Detroit how lotto luck can be a *****

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

yeah man totally always cool to make sweeping judgments based on 4 games.

what are we DOING here?

One guy was consistently getting pulled and not making it through playoff games and one guy held his own in the time he got, you're the dense one who doesn't see that Thompson was more viable than Vanecek was at the times of their trades and used it as a gotcha towards a different poster. Don't make dumb generalizations and you won't be called out on them.

 

[Edmonton East]

Far be it for me to defend Fitz but acting like there was a big difference between Vegas’s 27-year old Thompson - 95 starts (2.67 GAA and .912 save percentage) or the Caps’ 26-year old Vitek - 75 starts (2.68 GAA and .908 save percentage) when they were both traded is just being a hindsight cherry picker.

Again guys, the issue isn't getting Markstrom over Thompson in a vacuum. The issue was the timing and value given up didn't make sense for this team. At all.

Why did a 35ish goalie coming off 2 down seasons and being on the trade block forever have the value of a 1st round pick and #4D to a team that just missed the playoffs by a mile?? If you don't seriously contend immediately, you just lit assets on fire for no reason, further setting the franchise back and limiting flexibility. And oh look, that's exactly what happened. This team wasn't seriously contending even with decent Markstrom and healthy Jack....and now ya have goalie questions again just 1 offseason later.

You can make these wildly outrageous overpays once in a while if you think it makes you a serious contender immediately....which many of you thought it did. Those folks were wrong then and have been definitively proven incorrect at this point.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Look I’m as down on this group as anyone but demanding another rebuild at this point just shows you’re detached from the team, we’ve had over a decade of two rebuilds and now we’re supposed to start back at ground zero again in a market just starting to get a foothold in terms of a fanbase? Tell that to the fans going to games and watching. Pulling the plug entirely and demanding a rebuild with a locked up and still comparatively young core is literally quitting at the first sign of trouble.

Will they have to shake up the core a la Lou dealing off Arnott and Sykora? That’s absolutely on the table at this point, even more so if they flame out of the playoffs entirely. But total mass destruction, gtfo with this stuff, it’s basically trolling at this point. And good luck tanking for ten years and hoping to get a player even as good as Jack or Nico in the draft, ask Detroit how lotto luck can be a *****

The GM should go but he's gonna get save 2023 Jets Aaron Rodgers esque so it doesn't really matter if you don't believe in Fitz anyway. The core is actually there, just the pieces around them f***ing stink due to micromanaging.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

One guy was consistently getting pulled and not making it through playoff games and one guy held his own in the time he got, you're the dense one who doesn't see that Thompson was more viable than Vanecek was at the times of their trades and used it as a gotcha towards a different poster. Don't make dumb generalizations and you won't be called out on them.

you are making sweeping judgments about four games. You even said that Thompson went on multiple runs with Vegas which is not even true dude.

Take the L and move on.

 

[SansaStark]

Look I’m as down on this group as anyone but demanding another rebuild at this point just shows you’re detached from the team, we’ve had over a decade of two rebuilds and now we’re supposed to start back at ground zero again in a market just starting to get a foothold in terms of a fanbase? Tell that to the fans going to games and watching. Pulling the plug entirely and demanding a rebuild with a locked up and still comparatively young core is literally quitting at the first sign of trouble.

Will they have to shake up the core a la Lou dealing off Arnott and Sykora? That’s absolutely on the table at this point, even more so if they flame out of the playoffs entirely. But total mass destruction, gtfo with this stuff, it’s basically trolling at this point.

No it’s not. I truly believe that is what’s best for the long term success of the franchise. It’s not trolling just because you don’t agree with it.

You start over from ground zero AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN until you have the roster to win cups and perennial contention. IT TAKES LONGER IF YOU COMMIT TO THIS GROUP. It’s much faster to identify the need to tear it down now and start over sooner. The more you commit to this group the longer you have to wait until the next group.

I don’t have much more time on this earth. I want to see another contender before I go. If we sink another 5 years in the Hughes era, we’re only pushing that timeline down further

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

you are making sweeping judgments about four games. You even said that Thompson went on multiple runs with Vegas which is not even true dude.

Take the L and move on.

I meant in the regular seasons as a starter, why would I say multiple runs as a starter in the playoffs with 4 games under his belt? You're the most deluded poster on this board.

 

[NjDevsRR]

We discussing nonsense. Past is the past. The future will happen when moves are made in the offseason.

We currently have a roster that has no room for error in their game, one that has ten games to get in. Tomorrows game is basically a must win in Chicago. Put in Allen.

This is all that matters right now.

 

[NJDevs26]

The GM should go but he's gonna get save 2023 Jets Aaron Rodgers esque so it doesn't really matter if you don't believe in Fitz anyway. The core is actually there, just the pieces around them f***ing stink due to micromanaging.

To be fair Rodgers got injured game #1 two seasons ago, Jack and Dougie were toast after sixty games and two bad months. If this team misses the playoffs and Fitz gets a pass then you have to start wondering if we have another clueless Woody in the owners box

 

[NJDevs26]

We discussing nonsense. Past is the past. The future will happen when moves are made in the offseason.

We currently have a roster that has no room for error in their game, one that has ten games to get in. Tomorrows game is basically a must win in Chicago. Put in Allen.

This is all that matters right now.

Sadly debating the past is this board’s favorite pastime with hand wringing over the future a close second

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

To be fair Rodgers got injured game #1 two seasons ago, Jack and Dougie were toast after sixty games and two bad months. If this team misses the playoffs and Fitz gets a pass then you have to start wondering if we have another clueless Woody in the owners box

They're not as hands on as Woody as is so I wouldn't agree with that. If your hockey ops guys can't make the correct decisions with a hands off owner, it's on them.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Again guys, the issue isn't getting Markstrom over Thompson in a vacuum. The issue was the timing and value given up didn't make sense for this team. At all.

Why did a 35ish goalie coming off 2 down seasons and being on the trade block forever have the value of a 1st round pick and #4D to a team that just missed the playoffs by a mile?? If you don't seriously contend immediately, you just lit assets on fire for no reason, further setting the franchise back and limiting flexibility. And oh look, that's exactly what happened. This team wasn't seriously contending even with decent Markstrom and healthy Jack....and now ya have goalie questions again just 1 offseason later.

You can make these wildly outrageous overpays once in a while if you think it makes you a serious contender immediately....which many of you thought it did. Those folks were wrong then and have been definitively proven incorrect at this point.

This is a down season?

 

[Billdo]

Why did a 35ish goalie coming off 2 down seasons and being on the trade block forever have the value of a 1st round pick and #4D to a team that just missed the playoffs by a mile??

Because our heir apparent GM is enamored with the guy and claimed him to be a a top 5 goalie in the league when almost everyone disagreed with that.

 

[SansaStark]

To be fair Rodgers got injured game #1 two seasons ago, Jack and Dougie were toast after sixty games and two bad months. If this team misses the playoffs and Fitz gets a pass then you have to start wondering if we have another clueless Woody in the owners box

No owner in all of professional sports is as inept and mentally challenged than Woody.

Fitz would have had to literally take the twitter Josh Anderson deal x100000 for Harris/Blitz to equal Woody’s level

Blitz subscribes to this “be a good guy stuff” and their track record with the 76ers isn’t exactly encouraging. Either way, Fitz will be gone after next year if they miss.

 

[NJDevs26]

Because our heir apparent GM is enamored with the guy and claimed him to be a a top 5 goalie in the league when almost everyone disagreed with that.

Yeah I know Fitz is going to take the bullets on Markstrom and he should because it’s his job but when Marty was clearly pumping Markstrom’s tires ‘publicly’ you know he had to be banging the table privately and it’s hard to say no if your franchise legend has a conviction

 

[Bleedred]

I wonder if Markstrom had never come off of IR, rather than came back and played 7 games as bad as the first 9 games of both Cory Schneider's 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 seasons if people would still be blasting the trade.

I guess then it would be a debate of ''Traded a first round pick for a 35 year old goalie, who hasn't played a game in 2 months and may not even be available for the playoffs'', but I'd be shocked if we didn't have 3-4 more points if Markstrom didn't come back.

Unless you think Allen/Daws would have combined for some really horrible games in some of those.

 

[Nico13]

Things are getting ugly...