Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Wait a second, players actually have to play in the league and perform after being taken 1OA?!?! I wasn't aware every 1OA became an elite superstar and won Cups. Nevermind the fact that no serious person then or even now would consider prime Hischier/Hughes in the same breath as prime Crosby/Malkin or McDavid/Drai. And that isn't an indictment on Nico or Jack, they are great players. It's an indictment on Fitz and apparently many posters here that have absurdly unrealistic expectations of these guys.

Also, point out where I said those 2 picks wouldn't define this team. Do it. The point very obviously remains that Fitz is acting as if Hischier/Hughes can carry a team, get materially elevated production out of replacement level players, like the elite of the elite can. They cannot.

Scrub Palat would put up 50+ points with McDavid/Prime Crosby. Get it yet? Very clear that's what Fitz expected with his moves the last 2 years and it ain't happening....it's also insane to think it would happen in the 1st place.

I think he knows that which is why some of his moves up front have been done to add depth scoring in weird ways I guess. He added Toffoli last year and in better circumstances, it would've worked. It's just that he's a desperate GM at this point. He can't point to Shero anymore and say that's Ray's mess, everything he's done the past couple of years had fully made his team for better or worse and I think he's realizing that he might've overcorrected

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

The legitimate irony of this post is insane.

So then why are you crying about a different poster mentioning a different goalie like Thompson being acquired and then equating it to Vanecek? You're the one who's making misinformed arguments as per usual

I don't even know what you're talking about my man.

So its your opinion that the Devils traded for a 26 year old Vitek Vanecek to 100% "only be a stopgap", but the Caps traded for 27 year old Logan Thompson to be the surefire #1 of the future?

do you not see how ridiculous that sounds?

 

[SansaStark]

That's bold. I like Luke's game and I think Jack can be a great player even if he needs a bit more discipline. I don't see any universe where ownership wants them gone. They attract attention and sell tickets.

I actually really like Luke. I’d keep him. But we’d have to get rid of him if we dump Jack. And I’d take whatever assets we can get for both of them and try to rebuild from there.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

And you’ll have an equally bad time clinging to GodKing Jack Hughes, and soon to be multiple selke winner Nico Hischier as the saviors who will surely bring this franchise multiple cups.

no players do it all by themselves. Every team needs quality depth.

How many playoff series did McDavid and Draisaitl win in McDavid's first 5 years in the league? I will give you a hint, it is the same as NJ has in the Jack Hughes/Nico Hischier era!

the sooner you can actually critically think and accept this, the better!

 

[RandoDoomer]

Man, do I miss the 2022-2023 team. What a great team.

Yeah, that team was fun to watch. Even if they squeak into the playoffs this year, I probably have never been less excited about a playoff run in my 37 years watching the team.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I actually really like Luke. I’d keep him. But we’d have to get rid of him if we dump Jack. And I’d take whatever assets we can get for both of them and try to rebuild from there.

Bold plan. I like it, very provocative.

 

[SansaStark]

people used to call me doom and gloom on here but i dont think the team needs to be stripped down. for better or worse this is the core they have to ride it out with. i question their heart and passion but nico bratt timo jack aren't going anywhere same with dougie and luke. so the team has a good start on the hard to find pieces another top 3 player and fill out the bottom 6 better (theres enough bottom 6 talent out there every year) and pray jack doesn't get hurt

Well i agree with you that they will ride these two until the end but i think it’s the wrong move and will undoubtedly not yield perennial contention with a cup win or two sprinkled in. Not unless the entire roster was completely overhauled and several high end pieces were brought in as support. And that just ain’t happening.

Putting your entire teams future and their immediate success, season in and season out, on whether Jack gets hurt or not is a fundamental problem. If he was less injury prone or more of an impact player like McD or Crosby then sure you have to deal with that risk. But Jack is nothing close to that and he can’t be the cornerstone this team relies on in that way.

This is why we should be rid of the Hughes family all together.
They will forever hold us back from making the best long term decisions.

 

[NjDevsRR]

 

[Edmonton East]

I think he knows that which is why some of his moves up front have been done to add depth scoring in weird ways I guess. He added Toffoli last year and in better circumstances, it would've worked. It's just that he's a desperate GM at this point. He can't point to Shero anymore and say that's Ray's mess, everything he's done the past couple of years had fully made his team for better or worse and I think he's realizing that he might've overcorrected

See, but this is where ya lose me. This is why I freaked out about the Kovy extension given the circumstances. It made zero sense and proved definitively that Fitz still has no clue what he is doing. And for the 100th time, this is coming from someone who liked the initial Kovy acquisition.

 

[SansaStark]

Bold plan. I like it, very provocative.

Since you’d prefer to keep them, let’s let the next few seasons play out and we’ll see how you all feel then.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I don't even know what you're talking about my man.

So its your opinion that the Devils traded for a 27 year old Vitek Vanecek to 100% "only be a stopgap", but the Caps traded for 27 year old Logan Thompson to be the surefire #1 of the future?

do you not see how ridiculous that sounds?

I'm saying Thompson was always a better bet to be a future starter than Vanecek ever was, you brought up Vanecek as a gotcha to that poster saying they should've traded less or not gone after Markstrom because of how bad Vanecek ended up being in the long term. Don't act all foolish, you know what your post meant

 

[JimEIV]

I hope you put some f***ing milk in that tea mate. Couple biscuits to dunk in it. A man brew.

Just plain green tea today. I only put milk in black tea. Sometimes a little honey too.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I'm saying Thompson was always a better bet to be a future starter than Vanecek ever was, you brought up Vanecek as a gotcha to that poster saying they should've traded less or not gone after Markstrom because of how bad Vanecek ended up being in the long term. Don't act all foolish, you know what your post meant

based on what? Elaborate, please.

the Thompson and Vanecek trades were very similar risk/reward type situations. one worked out (so far), one didn't. To claim Thompson was somehow far and away the surefire answer is nonsensical.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

See, but this is where ya lose me. This is why I freaked out about the Kovy extension given the circumstances. It made zero sense and proved definitively that Fitz still has no clue what he is doing. And for the 100th time, this is coming from someone who liked the initial Kovy acquisition.

I mean either Hamliton or Nemec or gone in the summer, would be a total Fitz to depreciate Nemec's value and try him for pennies like he did with Holtz

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Since you’d prefer to keep them, let’s let the next few seasons play out and we’ll see how you all feel then.

Jack Hughes, Luke Hughes, and a 2nd for Josh Anderson and Arber Xhekaj.

 

[dzubrus8]

Timo-Nico-X
Bratt-Jack-X
X-X-Noesen
Palat-Mercer-Cotter
Tatar

My way too early, thinking out loud offseason wishlist:

Trades:
- Palat and Edmonton’s 2025 2 to Anaheim for future considerations
- Nemec to Ottawa for Shane Pinto, 2026 2nd, 2027 3rd

Re-signs:
- Glass: 2x$2m
- let go of Bastian, Lazar, Sprong, Dowling, Dumoulin, Cholowski, Allen
- Gritstyuk: 2x$0.9m
- L Hughes: 7x$8.5m

Free agency (should have ~$10m left at this point):
- Matt Duchene (2x$8m)
- Alex Lyon (1x$2m)

Preseason:
- Tatar: 1x$800k (gets a PTO and earns a job)

Duchene - Hughes - Bratt
Meier - Hischier - Gritsyuk
Mercer - Pinto - Noesen
Cotter - Haula - Glass
Tatar, Macdermid

Hughes - Pesce
Siegenthaler - Kovacevic
Dillon - Hamilton

Markstrom
Lyon/Daws

Now at center you have Hischier Hughes Pinto Haula. Duchene can certainly play center. So can Glass. Mercer is iffy but fine as an injury fill given how many others are ahead of him.

That team looks quite good to me. Goaltending will be iffy if Marky goes down but I’m ok with giving Daws a chance especially with Lyon behind him. I’d consider sending down Mac and calling up Daws and rolling with 13F, 7D, 3G once he’s out of waiver exemption.

 

[SansaStark]

no players do it all by themselves. Every team needs quality depth.

How many playoff series did McDavid and Draisaitl win in McDavid's first 5 years in the league? I will give you a hint, it is the same as NJ has in the Jack Hughes/Nico Hischier era!

the sooner you can actually critically think and accept this, the better!

You seem to be missing a key point here BowlCut…
McDavid looked like a hall of famer from day 1. He’s surpassing Gretzky in my mind with his utter dominance. There was no question in my mind that he would get EDM to deep playoff runs at some point. And sure tue GM still needs good depth pieces, but not nearly the amount or quality that would be needed on this team to supplement 86/13.
That’s the difference.

This is a shit argument that leaves out some crucial context.
Critical thinking involves looking the trends and patterns and identifying issues or weaknesses before they become impediments to your end goal.

Building this team around Jack is an impediment. He is never going to be that level of player. And it’s much harder for a team to find the right depth that plays with this player well as opposed to have a McDavid who can play with anyone and elevate them, who can dominate game after game.

Nothing is a guarantee. But it’s far more likely EDM will end this regime with cups than NJD will.

 

[NJDevs26]

Far be it for me to defend Fitz but acting like there was a big difference between Vegas’s 27-year old Thompson - 95 starts (2.67 GAA and .912 save percentage) or the Caps’ 26-year old Vitek - 75 starts (2.68 GAA and .908 save percentage) when they were both traded is just being a hindsight cherry picker.

 

[SansaStark]

Jack Hughes, Luke Hughes, and a 2nd for Josh Anderson and Arber Xhekaj.

Jack/Luke for Nick Suzuki & Slafkovsky and two 1st round picks (maybe 1 if it’s high in a good draft year). I’d do that in a heartbeat.

Nico/Suzuki down the middle? Yea I can get on board with that. You’d have a chance at having a full season with both your centers healthy. Although I guess with Nico you never know either! LOL

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

You seem to be missing a key point here BowlCut…
McDavid looked like a hall of famer from day 1. He’s surpassing Gretzky in my mind with his utter dominance. There was no question in my mind that he would get EDM to deep playoff runs at some point. And sure tue GM still needs good depth pieces, but not nearly the amount or quality that would be needed on this team to supplement 86/13.
That’s the difference.

This is a shit argument that leaves out some crucial context.
Critical thinking involves looking the trends and patterns and identifying issues or weaknesses before they become impediments to your end goal.

Building this team around Jack is an impediment. He is never going to be that level of player. And it’s much harder for a team to find the right depth that plays with this player well as opposed to have a McDavid who can play with anyone and elevate them, who can dominate game after game.

Jack Hughes made the corpse of Ondrej Palat look competent for half this season

I don't even know what you're talking about dude. Its really weird stuff to say that Hughes can't elevate anyone that plays with him. Your opinion is so far from reality that I really don't feel like engaging in this any longer.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

You seem to be missing a key point here BowlCut…
McDavid looked like a hall of famer from day 1. He’s surpassing Gretzky in my mind with his utter dominance. There was no question in my mind that he would get EDM to deep playoff runs at some point. And sure tue GM still needs good depth pieces, but not nearly the amount or quality that would be needed on this team to supplement 86/13.
That’s the difference.

This is a shit argument that leaves out some crucial context.
Critical thinking involves looking the trends and patterns and identifying issues or weaknesses before they become impediments to your end goal.

Building this team around Jack is an impediment. He is never going to be that level of player. And it’s much harder for a team to find the right depth that plays with this player well as opposed to have a McDavid who can play with anyone and elevate them, who can dominate game after game.

Jack Hughes is the 3rd highest paid player on the team. When did we build the team solely around him, who expected him to be McDavid, and where are we finding a better player for 8 million dollars?

 

[Edmonton East]

I mean either Hamliton or Nemec or gone in the summer, would be a total Fitz to depreciate Nemec's value and try him for pennies like he did with Holtz

Hamilton difficult to move because of clause, health, and cost. And yup, but this is wayyy more self inflicted by Fitz than the Holtz scenario. You've shown the league you have zero intention of keeping Nemec, Casey, or even both. If they can't move Hamilton, there literally isn't a spot for either of these guys to step into even if they deserve it.

This wouldn't be such a problem if it wasn't for the fact the forward core needs a C and depth and the org has mostly shit forward prospects. Asset allocation matters.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Jack/Luke for Nick Suzuki & Slafkovsky and two 1st round picks (maybe 1 if it’s high in a good draft year). I’d do that in a heartbeat.

Nico/Suzuki down the middle? Yea I can get on board with that. You’d have a chance at having a full season with both your centers healthy. Although I guess with Nico you never know either! LOL

jesus f***ing christ dude

I rest my case.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

based on what? Elaborate, please.

the Thompson and Vanecek trades were very similar risk/reward type situations. one worked out (so far), one didn't. To claim Thompson was somehow far and away the surefire answer is nonsensical.

Thompson had multiple runs in Vegas where he was the 1 with better stats, played in playoff games where he didn't shrivel like Vitek did granted the sample size is small for both but people wanted to cry seeing Vanecek in net in 2023.

There's been multiple people who banged on the table on this very board for Thompson when he was in Vegas, issue is Fitz was never going to go with another goalie like that because if he failed it was his ass but a Thompson trade try was always going to better than a Vanecek trade try at their respective time periods, not sure how you're pulling a gotcha on a poster for the mere suggestion of it.

 

[SansaStark]

Jack Hughes made the corpse of Ondrej Palat look competent for half this season

I don't even know what you're talking about dude. Its really weird stuff to say that Hughes can't elevate anyone that plays with him. Your opinion is so far from reality that I really don't feel like engaging in this any longer.

Palat is not as bad as you’re stating. But McDavid would have given him a 30 goal season.

Who has he elevated? Janni Kuokkonen?
That’s literally it.

Bratt, better without him
Palat, same with out him
Sharangovich, best year with Calgary last season
Timo , nope

Who else? Who was “elevated” playing with Jack?