Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I think there is a point that for whatever reasons the team hasn't been as good with those two as many had hoped. I think going off the deep end about the entire fanbase is a bit much however.

the team hasn't been as good as many had hoped, sure. But blaming those 2 (and throw Bratt in as well) for that is insane to me. I am not sure what more that those players would need to do.

the Devils are where they are because the entirety of their depth pieces all turned to (or always were) shit. Mercer, Palat, Noesen, Haula, Bastian, Lazar, etc are all for the most part not contributing shit. Cotter has basically been the only consistent "bottom 6" contributor all year.

Also, the injuries certainly play a factor. No, it isn't an excuse, and if you want to debate "CAN PLAYER X EVEN STAY HEALTHY!?" I guess you can do that, but the point remains.

 

[My3Sons]

the team hasn't been as good as many had hoped, sure. But blaming those 2 (and throw Bratt in as well) for that is insane to me. I am not sure what more that those players would need to do.

the Devils are where they are because the entirety of their depth pieces all turned to (or always were) shit. Mercer, Palat, Noesen, Haula, Bastian, Lazar, etc are all for the most part not contributing shit. Cotter has basically been the only consistent "bottom 6" contributor all year.

Also, the injuries certainly play a factor. No, it isn't an excuse, and if you want to debate "CAN PLAYER X EVEN STAY HEALTHY!?" I guess you can do that, but the point remains.

I think the name players will always get the kudos and the blame. Look at how the main guys in Toronto are ripped for the perpetual first round exits. I imagine it has a lot to do with the lack of supporting cast there but it's somehow all about paying them too much. I think Jack/Nico/Jesper have done a great job individually but they aren't at the level of McDavid/MacKinnon/Kucherov. That's no slight to them. Few are at that level. They need more support than the tippy top guys and as you've noted that hasn't happened. Pity Mercer stalled. Maybe he can up his game and maybe they get a good player back for Nemec when they trade him.

 

[britdevil]

absolutely, positively no one was saying this at the time of the trade(s).

Come on man. Lets be realistic here.

Raises hand...

Given that, at the time of the trade, Devils were coming off a craptastic disappointment of a season, trading a 2025 1st and promising young LD for a 34 year old goalie was absolutely seen as a risk. Let's not even get into the fact that Markstrom vetoed a trade to LA, because he wanted to be here. Fitz was haggling with himself. He did overpay.

Ok the pick was top 10 protected. Big whoop. We're on a death march to the playoffs and we're considering whether or not Allen should be the starter....

Come on man.... That is the reality.

Shame the threads have been nuked. The receipts would be there, for all to see.

The only relevant thread I can find is the one where Fitz told the media he'd be willing to trade 10th overall for "the right player". There are some interesting takes to be read.

 

[My3Sons]

Sorry it’s only been edited for indoctrination content by PragerU.

Seriously though, you know im right. Something is off with this group. It has to be openly acknowledged for better discourse about the team

I think what's off is that the team makeup is flawed. I'm not sure what Jack or Nico or Bratt have to do with Kovacevic failing to get to the redline against Dallas or Pesce botching the clear last night. The three forwards don't play goal and they aren't running Markstrom out there while he still seems at least a bit injured to me. The team is supposed to limit good opportunities and win low scoring games. They are struggling with that right now. In December it looked pretty good. The same players were involved.

 

[Bleedred]

Hear me out...

If we're ever in the 3rd period, and we get a lead...... we pull out Markstrom and bring in a closer!!! Allen or Daws...

who says no!?!??!

I say no.

Stop starting Markstrom every other game it was I say. No 3rd period or 1st or 2nd.

If they’re worried about getting him ready to go for the playoffs there will be no playoffs.

But yeah, like I’ve said, almost half of his goals allowed (15/28) have come in the 3rd period. And three times in 7 games he’s allowed a goal with under a minute left in the 3rd period. One was a game winner with 5 seconds left, the other was a game tying goal which led to a shootout loss.

Apparently almost none of these 3rd period goals were bad though.

 

[SansaStark]

Insane stuff. Sorry man. Your takes on these players are not based in any sort of reality

And which reality is that? The reality that the results have not been there and you’re in the sunken cost fallacy phase?

Or the alternative reality where Nico/Jack are Leon/Connor or Sid/Evgeni and will lead us to automatic playoffs every year?

Please waive to us on your burning ship 2 years from now when we’re with a new GM and rebuilding, talking about tanking and draft picks again.

 

[JrFischer54]

Caps traded two 3rds for a better goalie, 10 days after Fitz traded a 1st and Kevin Bahl for 34 year old Markstrom.

Hard to argue that it wasn't a risky overpay.

there is zero chance fitz was going to go out and get another unproven goalie "on the cheap" like vitek and i dont blame him. so just stop with this nonsense before we put thompson in the hall of fame lets see how he plays next year i mean vitek was amazing here his first year also. i was fine with the markstrom trade at the time and still fine with it.

 

[Bleedred]

I still maintain the Markstrom trade was FINE.

What’s not fine is force feeding Markstrom starts right now.

And because of that the trade could wind up going down in infamy. The team has a hard enough time getting wins and scoring three or more goals, yet insists on forcing an .842% goalie with a 4 GAA and and 1-5-1 record to keep playing. And his lone win came in a game where we scored 5 goals.

 

[britdevil]

Hindsight is almost always 20/20.

Yeah, sure. I won't proclaim to be the smartest guy in a room. I'd barely scrape the average on an IQ test.

I did however have Markstrom as a risk. He was coming off a so-so season, was getting up there in age and had been vocal in wanting out of Calgary. Who the hell was Fitz bidding against??

Now, do I think Markstrom is terrible? No. He's a middle of the road starter who can have stretches of very good play. We've seen that this season.

It was a risk because this team had just had a shit season at the time of trade and many felt that we had more issues that just a starting goalie, though it was probably the most glaring flaw. Those other flaws are now coming to fruition.

 

[SansaStark]

I think what's off is that the team makeup is flawed. I'm not sure what Jack or Nico or Bratt have to do with Kovacevic failing to get to the redline against Dallas or Pesce botching the clear last night. The three forwards don't play goal and they aren't running Markstrom out there while he still seems at least a bit injured to me. The team is supposed to limit good opportunities and win low scoring games. They are struggling with that right now. In December it looked pretty good. The same players were involved.

In December they looked like a team that learned how to play team-defense well mixed with some good goaltending. Still average offense.
I was ecstatic at the progress of team play but no…they were not even close to being the cup contender we all want even then. That was a team that would still get heartbroken in 2nd or 3rd round.

 

[My3Sons]

And which reality is that? The reality that the results have not been there and you’re in the sunken cost fallacy phase?

Or the alternative reality where Nico/Jack are Leon/Connor or Sid/Evgeni and will lead us to automatic playoffs every year?

Please waive to us on your burning ship 2 years from now when we’re with a new GM and rebuilding, talking about tanking and draft picks again.

2 years is an eternity in pro sports. It's hard to see that far ahead.

 

[JrFischer54]

I still maintain the Markstrom trade was FINE.

What’s not fine is force feeding Markstrom starts right now.

And because of that the trade could wind up going down in infamy. The team has a hard enough time getting wins and scoring three or more goals, yet insists on forcing an .842% goalie with a 4 GAA and and 1-5-1 record to keep playing.

i get what your saying but lets face it if the team has any shot in the playoffs its going to be with markstrom not allen. the team is banking on the points cushion being enough to get them to the playoffs allen will start a good amount of the final games so i see no problem with the markstrom usage to try and get him back to the 1h version of himself. also last night i thought he played completely fine

 

[My3Sons]

In December they looked like a team that learned how to play team-defense well mixed with some good goaltending. Still average offense.
I was ecstatic at the progress of team play but no…they were not even close to being the cup contender we all want even then. That was a team that would still get heartbroken in 2nd or 3rd round.

If they had a nice regular season and won two rounds it would be seen as a great result by almost everyone if I had to guess. At this point if they get in and don't get swept it would at least be a salvage of the season.

 

[Bleedred]

there is zero chance fitz was going to go out and get another unproven goalie "on the cheap" like vitek and i dont blame him. so just stop with this nonsense before we put thompson in the hall of fame lets see how he plays next year i mean vitek was amazing here his first year also. i was fine with the markstrom trade at the time and still fine with it.

I doubted Thompson before this year. I would say he’s done enough this year for me to say he’s pretty good.

But he has been a bit of an injury case throughout his career also.

I thought Vegas was foolish for trading him. It felt like they traded him just to trade him and get something for him. They would have been better keeping him this year and just letting him walk as a UFA after this one or letting Hill walk (they’ve since re-signed him) and committing to him instead.

His nearly league minimum salary was really worth keeping just for that alone. But they wound up spending about a million more on goalies by signing a bad goalie like Samsonov, who has provided far worse numbers.

 

[Bleedred]

i get what your saying but lets face it if the team has any shot in the playoffs its going to be with markstrom not allen. the team is banking on the points cushion being enough to get them to the playoffs allen will start a good amount of the final games so i see no problem with the markstrom usage to try and get him back to the 1h version of himself. also last night i thought he played completely fine

Then you worry about that when the playoffs come or once we clinch.

Worry about it now and there might very well be no playoffs to worry about it then.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

And which reality is that? The reality that the results have not been there and you’re in the sunken cost fallacy phase?

Or the alternative reality where Nico/Jack are Leon/Connor or Sid/Evgeni and will lead us to automatic playoffs every year?

Please waive to us on your burning ship 2 years from now when we’re with a new GM and rebuilding, talking about tanking and draft picks again.

I don't give a shit about Fitz, he can be fired tomorrow for all I care. So I don't really know what point you are even trying to make there.

they aren't going to be tanking anytime soon. That is really ridiculous to say tbh. Unless you are suggesting that they trade all of Nico, Bratt, and Jack? In which case...lol

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Raises hand...

Given that, at the time of the trade, Devils were coming off a craptastic disappointment of a season, trading a 2025 1st and promising young LD for a 34 year old goalie was absolutely seen as a risk. Let's not even get into the fact that Markstrom vetoed a trade to LA, because he wanted to be here. Fitz was haggling with himself. He did overpay.

Ok the pick was top 10 protected. Big whoop. We're on a death march to the playoffs and we're considering whether or not Allen should be the starter....

Come on man.... That is the reality.

Shame the threads have been nuked. The receipts would be there, for all to see.

The only relevant thread I can find is the one where Fitz told the media he'd be willing to trade 10th overall for "the right player". There are some interesting takes to be read.

the trade was absolutely a risk. I didnt even love it at the time.

but to knock the GM and say he should have traded a mid round pick for Logan Thompson instead? yeah, I dont think anyone said that. Nor did anyone think Thompson would be THIS good.

 

[SansaStark]

If they had a nice regular season and won two rounds it would be seen as a great result by almost everyone if I had to guess. At this point if they get in and don't get swept it would at least be a salvage of the season.

That result wouldn’t completely tell the whole story. You can win a round, maybe even 2. And still be nowhere close to a perennial cup contender. It depends how they win/lose, who they lose to, and all the other variables that go into it.

But sure we’d sign up for that if the right players look good and they lost a nail biter in 7games to Carolina or Washington or Florida or someone like that.
It really depends.

 

[Devs3cups]

Man, do I miss the 2022-2023 team. What a great team.

 

[Bleedred]

I don't give a shit about Fitz, he can be fired tomorrow for all I care. So I don't really know what point you are even trying to make there.

they aren't going to be tanking anytime soon. That is really ridiculous to say tbh. Unless you are suggesting that they trade all of Nico, Bratt, and Jack? In which case...lol

There are a lot of people who unfortunately believe this or at least would imply so by blaming the “Core”.

The only f***ing guys on the team who can score.

Instead of blaming the guy who constructed the team or the goalie that can’t be bothered to allow fewer than 2 goals per 3rd period alone.

 

[SansaStark]

I don't give a shit about Fitz, he can be fired tomorrow for all I care. So I don't really know what point you are even trying to make there.

they aren't going to be tanking anytime soon. That is really ridiculous to say tbh. Unless you are suggesting that they trade all of Nico, Bratt, and Jack? In which case...lol

Starting next year they absolutely should be. They need to strip this back down to nothing and build it up again. I’d prefer to be rid of the Hughes family all together.

If we’re not trying to build a multiple cup winner than what is really the point. Keep taking swings in the draft until you acquire the studs. Do it as long as it takes..better than floating around in mediocrity hoping for some coalescence of depth to magically get us a one-shot at the cup only to fall back to mediocrity again after that.

 

[Bleedred]

Man, do I miss the 2022-2023 team. What a great team.

Also fun to watch.

People laughed at and mocked “Fast, attacking, supportive” but that team was the one team that felt like that.

Last year was slower, less attacking, unsupportive.

This year is slow, little attacking, more supportive.

 

[britdevil]

there is zero chance fitz was going to go out and get another unproven goalie "on the cheap" like vitek and i dont blame him. so just stop with this nonsense before we put thompson in the hall of fame lets see how he plays next year i mean vitek was amazing here his first year also. i was fine with the markstrom trade at the time and still fine with it.

Fitz surely does love a name. We can agree on that.

Hall of fame lmao. Ok mate.

Caps trading for Thompson was a calculated risk. As was NJ trading for Markstrom. Hell, all trades are risks. They just paid way less, so less risk.

 

[JrFischer54]

Man, do I miss the 2022-2023 team. What a great team.

that team had swagger heart passion and were hungry. then the playoffs happened and i know they won the series but the first two games pretty much are what we have experienced the last two seasons. lazy uninterested mentally weak casual play. it took schmid miracle and rangers taking it for granted that let us back in the series.

would love to know what happened to them

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Starting next year they absolutely should be. They need to strip this back down to nothing and build it up again. I’d prefer to be rid of the Hughes family all together.

If we’re not trying to build a multiple cup winner than what is really the point. Keep taking swings in the draft until you acquire the studs. Do it as long as it takes..better than floating around in mediocrity hoping for some coalescence of depth to magically get us a one-shot at the cup only to fall back to mediocrity again after that.

Not even really sure how to even respond to this its so outrageous.

Like I said, you probably should pick another team. You're gonna have a BAD TIME if this is what you think should be happening.