Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Mercer stinks. I don't know why that is so hard for some of you to accept. He has done literally nothing since the 2023 playoffs started. we're talking almost 200 games here.

 

[My3Sons]

Mercer stinks. I don't know why that is so hard for some of you to accept. He has done literally nothing since the 2023 playoffs started. we're talking almost 200 games here.

If he stinks that bad maybe he needs some of that full body deodorant stuff that you see ads for now.

 

[NJDfan86]

Notice how everyone neatly is at 100% between dzone and ozone? Seems like you are missing a zone that play can start in that isn’t the ozone or dzone.

@JimEIV - see you are quite active, no need to confirm that you forgot about the existence of neutral zone starts?

The fact that you believed such an obviously flawed metric for your analysis shows that you aren’t even watching the games to verify them - no one who has watched this team thinks that Mercer’s actually deployed in the defensive zone 60% of the time.

 

[JimEIV]

@JimEIV - see you are quite active, no need to confirm that you forgot about the existence of neutral zone starts?

You drop them in the average between Oz/Dz... isn't that obvious?

 

[NJDfan86]

You drop them in the average between Oz/Dz... isn't that obvious?

He doesn’t start anywhere near 60% in the dzone - you agree that you miss read or didn’t understand that stat correct?

 

[HersheyBob27]

Gets a breakaway you know it’s not a goal

Seems like he has finished breakaways at a decent percentage thru the years. Perhaps you don’t watch all the games

 

[JimEIV]

He doesn’t start anywhere near 60% in the dzone - you agree that you miss read or didn’t understand that stat correct?

I just showed you hockey Reference is showing it 60/40 for off/def

 

[MadDevil]

If he stinks that bad maybe he needs some of that full body deodorant stuff that you see ads for now.

For Pits, Packages, and Feet.

 

[NJDfan86]

I just showed you hockey Reference is showing it 60/40 for off/def

Again, that is just what his Ozone start percentage is and then combines neutral zone and defensive zone starts into the other column. Attached are Mercer’s zone starts by zone when you consider the neutral zone as separate from the defensive zone (which even you can’t argue are analogous in any way).

TLDR: Mercer doesn’t start in the dzone 60% and @JimEIV can’t admit to a mistake.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

Mercer doesn’t “stink,” he’s just not likely to be the top-6 two way forward or the perfect third line center behind Hughes and Hischier that a lot of us were envisioning after his rookie year. He’s a competitive kid and i wouldn’t be surprised if he instantly regains his form immediately upon moving to another team. In the long run he may be doing the Devils a favor by keeping his AAV way down on his next contract.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Mercer doesn’t “stink,” he’s just not likely to be the top-6 two way forward or the perfect third line center behind Hughes and Hischier that a lot of us were envisioning after his rookie year. He’s a competitive kid and i wouldn’t be surprised if he instantly regains his form immediately upon moving to another team. In the long run he may be doing the Devils a favor by keeping his AAV way down on his next contract.

what does he do well?

 

[JimEIV]

Again, that is just what his Ozone start percentage is and then combines neutral zone and defensive zone starts into the other column. Attached are Mercer’s zone starts by zone when you consider the neutral zone as separate from the defensive zone (which even you can’t argue are analogous in any way).

TLDR: Mercer doesn’t start in the dzone 60% and @JimEIV can’t admit to a mistake.

I don't understand what you are talking about "mistake "... Hockey Reference literally only shows offensive zone and defensive zone starts.

They're looking at the ratio between Ozone and Dzone starts...why is this so hard for you to understand?

Ok now watch the game...you made me miss the Lazar save

 

[NJDfan86]

For the record - Dawson Mercer is the most frustrating player on the Devils because everyone thinks he is some 200 foot player, if they just embraced him as a modern NHL version what we thought we were drafting in Holtz we wouldn’t be complaining as much about him.

 

[NJDfan86]

I don't understand what you are talking about "mistake "... Hockey Reference literally only shows offensive zone and defensive zone starts.

They're looking at the ratio between Ozone and Dzone starts...why is this so hard for you to understand?

Ok now watch the game...you made me miss the Lazar save

Neutral zone bro- does it exist?I quite easily showed you that I was right about your use of stats. Are you going to ignore that I have explained why you used the wrong number?

 

[JimEIV]

Neutral zone bro- does it exist?

We are not saying the same thing here

We are not talking about total starts....Nobody cares about neutral zone...we are looking at the ratio between offensive zone starts and defensive zone starts.

If you want to make argument that that's a very small amount of the starts or that it's meaningless, fine ..but looking Ozone and Dzone is some indication of who the coach wants out in those situations

Mercer's ratio between Ozone and Dzone is 40/60.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

"nobody cares about the neutral zone" lmao

 

[NJDfan86]

We are not saying the same thing here

We are not talking about total starts....Nobody cares about neutral zone...we are looking at the ratio between offensive zone starts and defensive zone starts.

If you want to make argument that that's a very small amount of the starts or that it's meaningless, fine ..but looking Ozone and Dzone is some indication of who the coach wants out in those situations

Mercer's ratio between Ozone and Dzone is 40/60.

Even in the face of obvious evidence against this you repeated it again.

Completely unserious and self serving, sad that instead of admitting you made a mistake you double down and blame the source instead of operator error.

It’s ok to admit you made a mistake

 

[JimEIV]

Even in the face of obvious evidence against this you repeated it again.

Completely unserious and self serving, sad that instead of admitting you made a mistake you double down and blame the source instead of operator error.

It’s ok to admit you made a mistake

You're thick headed...what is being shown here?

Do you want the link to check for yourself?

2024-25 New Jersey Devils Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the latest New Jersey Devils Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[My3Sons]

Even in the face of obvious evidence against this you repeated it again.

Completely unserious and self serving, sad that instead of admitting you made a mistake you double down and blame the source instead of operator error.

It’s ok to admit you made a mistake

Legal argument devolving into accusations of being unserious and self serving? Are you really my wife?

 

[NJDfan86]

You're thick headed...what is being shown here?

View attachment 997692

Do you want the link to check for yourself?

2024-25 New Jersey Devils Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the latest New Jersey Devils Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

My brother I literally explained this to you already:

Hockey reference takes Ozone start% and just calculates all other as Dzone. A shit ton of those are actually neutral zone (which would be obvious to anyone with a brain) but even after posting real zone start numbers you think 60 is still real?

 

[NJDfan86]

Legal argument devolving into accusations of being unserious and self serving? Are you really my wife?

I am not a lawyer, I only participated in a few pre-law classes but I have the requisite vocabulary to sound official

 

[JimEIV]

My brother I literally explained this to you already:

Hockey reference takes Ozone start% and just calculates all other as Dzone. A shit ton of those are actually neutral zone (which would be obvious to anyone with a brain) but even after posting real zone start numbers you think 60 is still real?

That can't be correct ...


Here are Mercers real 5v5 numbers

Ozone 113
Neutral 182
Dzone 159

Total 454 starts

If Hockey Reference calculated neutral and Dzone as Dzone starts it would be 75% Dzone (Nzone + Dzone = 341 by 454 )

Now Hockey Reference is doing EV not 5v5 so these are going to be slightly different...

Counting just ozone and Dzone is 272 total

113/272 is 41.5
159/272 is 58.4



The slight difference in numbers is EV vs 5v5.

Hence 40/60...

Hockey Reference is counting ONLY Ozone and Dzone starts at even strength.

 

[NJDfan86]

That can't be correct ...


Here are Mercers real 5v5 numbers

Ozone 113
Neutral 182
Dzone 159

Total 454 starts

If Hockey Reference calculated neutral and Dzone as Dzone starts it would be 75% Dzone (Nzone + Dzone = 341 by 454 )

Now Hockey Reference is doing EV not 5v5 so these are going to be slightly different...

Counting just ozone and Dzone is 272 total

113/272 is 41.5
159/272 is 58.4



The slight difference in numbers is EV vs 5v5.

Hence 40/60...

Hockey Reference is counting ONLY Ozone and Dzone starts at even strength.

keeps posting the same exact stat I say is useless. Here are his natural stat trick zone starts, which includes the neutral zone because no one who actually knows puck thinks that the neutral zone counts as the defensive zone.

None of these numbers will ever be 60% - I’m sorry that you can’t admit a mistake because it’s a really easy way to show you are a serious debater and not someone just arguing to an agenda.

 

[JimEIV]

keeps posting the same exact stat I say is useless. Here are his natural stat trick zone starts, which includes the neutral zone because no one who actually knows puck thinks that the neutral zone counts as the defensive zone.

None of these numbers will ever be 60% - I’m sorry that you can’t admit a mistake because it’s a really easy way to show you are a serious debater and not someone just arguing to an agenda.

159 Dzone starts out 272 offensive and defensive zone is 58.4 at 5v5... and the numbers are 60% at Even Strength.

I just proved to you what the Hockey Reference numbers represent...you thought those were neutral and defensive zone combined....that's the only mistake that was made in this whole conversation...you are completely wrong about what the hockey Reference numbers represent.
Ozone and Dzone = 272 starts at 5v5. 159/272 is 58.4 Dzone starts

Add 3on3 and 4on4 and Dawson is 60% Dzone starts at Even Strength.

 

[MadDevil]