Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[SteveCangialosi123]

Any thoughts on Colton Scissons ? Down year like rest of Nashville team...

He’s got some good speed. 1 more year at 2.85. He’d be great with retention as a 4C. 56% on faceoffs.

 

[Zippy316]

Do not get a forward unless it is a center. We have no center depth. We have Justin Dowling playing 3C right now. We need centers. Centers centers centers.

Grab a 4th line winger for a 6th round pick or whatever, fine. But actual assets NEED to go towards a center.

My opinion is we need another winger, center, and a depth defender to fill DeSimone’s role.

Ideal world that winger is someone like McCann and the center is someone like Gourde. Feels like it’s more likely we add another top-nine winger like Noesen and a lower end 3C like Suter or Bjugstad.

 

[devilsblood]

Honestly, I think that's wishful thinking tbh.

Haula is cooked, Bastian has never scored at any kind of rate, Lazar is hum drum beige man and Tatar is past it.

We need to replace these guys asap.

Bastian scored 11 goals 3 years ago. And then 6 in 46 games the next year. Heck he had 3 in his first 7 games in the NHL. This year he has 3 in 41.

Lazar has one goal. He had 7 last year.

Haula had 16 last year, this year he has 5. Is he cooked and thus not scoring goals, or is he not scoring goals, thus we think he's cooked? Sure his shot rate is down but not a ton.

I do think with all these guys, and the team in general, the tightened up style of play has brought down offense, but these guys are all shooting well below their rates from last year, especially 5v5.

Tatar is a guy who just doesn't get enough shots on net. So maybe he's not in the same basket.

 

[NJDevs26]

The idea of getting a winger for Jack and Bratt isn’t so much to increase their production but rather to do some of the physical work and keep teams from keying on them…and even if you go by the premise just leave Palat there, the other lines could sure use an upgrade.

 

[Lou Bloom]

Do not get a forward unless it is a center. We have no center depth. We have Justin Dowling playing 3C right now. We need centers. Centers centers centers.

Grab a 4th line winger for a 6th round pick or whatever, fine. But actual assets NEED to go towards a center.

Center may be more of a need but it's a bit silly to limit yourself and exclude available wingers. Especially when the forward group is being carried by Jack, Nico and Bratt. A good winger would absolutely help this team.

 

[None Shall Pass]

A good winger would absolutely help this team.

And then he doesn't mesh with anyone because we only have two centers worth a damn and then he gets signed for $8.8M and doesn't ever score a goal.

 

[dgibb10]

Center may be more of a need but it's a bit silly to limit yourself and exclude available wingers. Especially when the forward group is being carried by Jack, Nico and Bratt. A good winger would absolutely help this team.

No but you objectively lose value if you trade for a guy and have to pay more for because he is a PP asset, who will not have a spot on your PP1.

 

[Lou Bloom]

And then he doesn't mesh with anyone because we only have two centers worth a damn and then he gets signed for $8.8M and doesn't ever score a goal.

I don't know what Meier has to do with excluding yourself from acquiring a winger. The Devils lack forward depth all around the lineup, they need both wingers and centers, the idea that they shouldn't use any assets to acquire a winger is not a good take.

 

[Lou Bloom]

No but you objectively lose value if you trade for a guy and have to pay more for because he is a PP asset, who will not have a spot on your PP1.

That's why they should target players that have value outside of PP scoring. I wouldn't be pining for a Brock Boeser for example but there's plenty of wingers around the league that play strong two way hockey.

 

[Billdo]

And then he doesn't mesh with anyone because we only have two centers worth a damn and then he gets signed for $8.8M and doesn't ever score a goal.

Kinda crazy that he's 5th on the team in goals despite never scoring goals. Should he be above Noesen? I'd sure as shit hope so. Would he be above the other 3 (Jack, Nico, Bratt)? I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't. He's overpaid for sure but nothing Meier is doing is THAT far off from his career averages. Disappointing at the price point but I think everyone, myself included, maybe had unrealistic or too lofty expectations for what Meier is. Hes not THE guy here and he's not getting PP1 time because we've got better options. It sucks but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[dgibb10]

That's why they should target players that have value outside of PP scoring. I wouldn't be pining for a Brock Boeser for example but there's plenty of wingers around the league that play strong two way hockey.

The names being thrown around here are mostly high flying offensive pieces.

If we were talking about guys in the mold of like Mangiapane sure, but thats not what we're talking about

 

[devilsblood]

Any thoughts on Colton Scissons ? Down year like rest of Nashville team...

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He’s got some good speed. 1 more year at 2.85. He’d be great with retention as a 4C. 56% on faceoffs.

I think I like Sissons better given his down year. Ie, he'll be cheaper.

I think one could question if he is better then Haula, given a 6-10-16 stat line in 56 games. But Sissons has better speed, a harder shot, takes more d-zone faceoffs 5v5, plays more on the PK.

I like the call.

 

[HoliksGhost]

Devils not even associated with a trade rumor ??

 

[devilsblood]

Kinda crazy that he's 5th on the team in goals despite never scoring goals. Should he be above Noesen? I'd sure as shit hope so. Would he be above the other 3 (Jack, Nico, Bratt)? I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't. He's overpaid for sure but nothing Meier is doing is THAT far off from his career averages. Disappointing at the price point but I think everyone, myself included, maybe had unrealistic or too lofty expectations for what Meier is. Hes not THE guy here and he's not getting PP1 time because we've got better options. It sucks but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

What's frustrating about Meier is that he is playing great hockey. Just not finishing. But even despite his lack of scoring he is still 9-4 on ice goals for-against in his last 20. He should be something like 16-4, but 9-4 is still pretty darn good.

And this is mostly after he was placed on the 3rd line(not sure exactly when that happened) so he's proving very valuable as a 3rd line play driver.

 

[Lou Bloom]

The names being thrown around here are mostly high flying offensive pieces.

If we were talking about guys in the mold of like Mangiapane sure, but thats not what we're talking about

The comment I originally replied to was saying we should only target centers and at most give up a 6th round pick for a 4th line winger. It had nothing to do with high flying offensive pieces.

 

[None Shall Pass]

I again reiterate that JUSTIN DOWLING is our 3C. #1 priority is a center. It's not even remotely close.

 

[Lou Bloom]

I again reiterate that JUSTIN DOWLING is our 3C. #1 priority is a center. It's not even remotely close.

And Palat is our LW1, Tatar is our LW2, Noesen is our RW2, etc.. You do realize that more than one thing can be true at a time. Center can be a need and winger can also be a need.

It's much more important for the Devils to acquire good forwards no matter the position than pigeonhole themselves into acquiring a center.

 

[devilsblood]

I again reiterate that JUSTIN DOWLING is our 3C. #1 priority is a center. It's not even remotely close.

Meh, only because Jack is out.

If we want to upgrade Lazar or Haula then fine, but Dowling is not above those guys.

If we think Jack is out long term then we are screwed.

And Palat is our LW1, Tatar is our LW2, Noesen is our RW2, etc.. You do realize that more than one thing can be true at a time. Center can be a need and winger can also be a need.

It's much more important for the Devils to acquire good forwards no matter the position than pigeonhole themselves into acquiring a center.

Palat Noesen and even Tatar are much better then Dowling, and they play a less important position.


I think the proper reply to the Dowling concern is, it is (hopefully) a very short term situation.

 

[RSeen]

Meh, only because Jack is out.

If we want to upgrade Lazar or Haula then fine, but Dowling is not above those guys.

If we think Jack is out long term then we are screwed.


Palat Noesen and even Tatar are much better then Dowling, and they play a less important position.


I think the proper reply to the Dowling concern is, it is (hopefully) a very short term situation.

Dowling is playing 3C with Jack in. Our bottom six depth is brutal and then we have Palat and Noesen who realistically do not belong in a top 6.

Mercer being a 3rd liner rather than 2nd liner like he showed in his second season is a blow as well.

 

[Lou Bloom]

Meh, only because Jack is out.

If we want to upgrade Lazar or Haula then fine, but Dowling is not above those guys.

If we think Jack is out long term then we are screwed.


Palat Noesen and even Tatar are much better then Dowling, and they play a less important position.


I think the proper reply to the Dowling concern is, it is (hopefully) a very short term situation.

Jack is healthy, Dowling is playing 3C over Haula and Lazar.

I never once argued that 3C wasn't a bigger need, I was arguing against the idea that because center is a bigger need, that the Devils should only focus their assets into improving center and ignore winger entirely which was the poster's original point.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Dowling is in because Haula and Lazar have been that bad

 

[devilsblood]

Dowling is playing 3C with Jack in. Our bottom six depth is brutal and then we have Palat and Noesen who realistically do not belong in a top 6.

Mercer being a 3rd liner rather than 2nd liner like he showed in his second season is a blow as well.

Jack is healthy, Dowling is playing 3C over Haula and Lazar.

I never once argued that 3C wasn't a bigger need, I was arguing against the idea that because center is a bigger need, that the Devils should only focus their assets into improving center and ignore winger entirely which was the poster's original point.

Dowling is in because Haula and Lazar have been that bad

Oh Dang, I even googled the lineup to make sure I had my facts straight. But I didn't realize I was reading the practice lines from yesterday.

Aight, trade for Sissons.

But I am glade Hughes is playing.

 

[dgibb10]

And Palat is our LW1, Tatar is our LW2, Noesen is our RW2, etc.. You do realize that more than one thing can be true at a time. Center can be a need and winger can also be a need.

It's much more important for the Devils to acquire good forwards no matter the position than pigeonhole themselves into acquiring a center.

This is a really weird and somewhat disingenuous point. Noesen has been more than fine, and the other 2 is because NJD is playing Mercer and Meier on the 3rd line, in no small part because of the lack of a 3C rn and so we're overloading that line with 2 of our best wingers to try and make up for it, knowing that Nico is a guy who wins his minutes regardless of linemates.

Tatar is a guy who fits well as a complimentary piece among skilled guys.

NJD is really missing a 3C.

On the wing, Meier+Bratt as top guys, Noesen+Mercer as secondary guys, Palat+Cotter as tertiary guys, and Tatar-Bastian-Lazar as bottom guys is pretty solid.

You could go through the league if you want, you'll find a lot more of those guys hanging in those roles on good teams than you think.

And the teams that don't, almost always have either a lack of top end talent or a big hole on the backend.

 

[RSeen]

This is a really weird and somewhat disingenuous point. Noesen has been more than fine, and the other 2 is because NJD is playing Mercer and Meier on the 3rd line, because of the lack of a 3C rn and so we're overloading that line with 2 of our best wingers to try and make up for it, knowing that Nico is a guy who wins his minutes regardless of linemates.

Tatar is a guy who fits well as a complimentary piece among skilled guys.

NJD is really missing a 3C.

On the wing, Meier+Bratt as top guys, Noesen+Mercer as secondary guys, Palat+Cotter as tertiary guys, and Tatar-Bastian-Lazar as bottom guys is pretty solid.

You could go through the league if you want, you'll find a lot more of those guys hanging in those roles on good teams than you think

Its not solid. Mercer and Noesen are not top 6 wingers. Dawson is not even close to cracking 40 points again. Noesen is having a career year with great PP production but at even strength, he is a weak link in the top 6. Carolina had it right by playing him lower in the line up during even strength.

Palat has not been good this year, Cotter is a good 4th liner but that is not enough. Tatar sucks and is not someone that needs to play a single playoff game, Bastian and Lazar have put up no offence.

 

[devilsblood]

This is a really weird and somewhat disingenuous point. Noesen has been more than fine, and the other 2 is because NJD is playing Mercer and Meier on the 3rd line, in no small part because of the lack of a 3C rn and so we're overloading that line with 2 of our best wingers to try and make up for it, knowing that Nico is a guy who wins his minutes regardless of linemates.

Tatar is a guy who fits well as a complimentary piece among skilled guys.

NJD is really missing a 3C.

On the wing, Meier+Bratt as top guys, Noesen+Mercer as secondary guys, Palat+Cotter as tertiary guys, and Tatar-Bastian-Lazar as bottom guys is pretty solid.

You could go through the league if you want, you'll find a lot more of those guys hanging in those roles on good teams than you think.

And the teams that don't, almost always have either a lack of top end talent or a big hole on the backend.

In line with your thoughts on the 4th line guys, Bastian and Lazar are above water in terms of GF% over their last 20 games. They don't score, but they don't allow goals either. This is a good thing.