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Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part III

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Guttersniped said:
I think of the top 9 more in terms of production, we’re weak there and that’s a worse problem.

People sometimes fixate on a lack of production from the 4th line but you just don’t get that much from them.

Obviously our forward depth sucks everywhere.

That includes having jack shit in Utica at forward and doing nothing to fix that beyond the failed LaBanc PTO.

We do a lot less than perennial top teams do in terms of trying to grow their own depth with FA signings (DAL, BOS, WSH, FLA etc).

I’ve had a bug up my ass about Fitz’s lack of success drafting forwards and overall half-assed approach to forward depth since forever.

The off-season was me waiting for depth moves that never came and feeling bad for @Bad Goalie as he stared into the void that’s the Utica Comets. Such is life.

The new regime in Vancouver made a point of addressing it and now they got 27 goals in half a season from Pius Suter and Kiefer Sherwood, who make a combined 3.1m.

But Fitz is always big game hunting or half-assing it with PTOs.
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Yeah, top 9 is a better way to phrase it. Still I would like to see them having a fourth line that is legitimately good and I don't have to hold my breath for a penalty or a goal against every time they're out there. Palat and Mercer being top 6 players is sort of heightened for the fact the bottom 6 can't do shit either. You could move guys around if they were worth anything up and down the lineup. It feels like a Lou lineup where you have hasbeens just moping around and doing nothing for 8-9 mins a night. For all of greatness of Fitz on the backend, he's been utter dogshit up front for the most part. The anti Shero lol
 
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Guttersniped said:
I think of the top 9 more in terms of production, we’re weak there and that’s a worse problem.

People sometimes fixate on a lack of production from the 4th line but you just don’t get that much from them.

Obviously our forward depth sucks everywhere.

That includes having jack shit in Utica at forward and doing nothing to fix that beyond the failed LaBanc PTO.

We do a lot less than perennial top teams do in terms of trying to grow their own depth with FA signings (DAL, BOS, WSH, FLA etc).

I’ve had a bug up my ass about Fitz’s lack of success drafting forwards and overall half-assed approach to forward depth since forever.

The off-season was me waiting for depth moves that never came and feeling bad for @Bad Goalie as he stared into the void that’s the Utica Comets. Such is life.

The new regime in Vancouver made a point of addressing it and now they got 27 goals in half a season from Pius Suter and Kiefer Sherwood, who make a combined 3.1m.

But Fitz is always big game hunting or half-assing it with PTOs.
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I forgot about Labanc. He has 2 goals this year and 4 in his last 85. He may be cooked.

The lack of centers drafted under Fitz has annoyed me. Utica is a wasteland because of it. And I want more swings for the fences at fast talented guys. Forget about the harder to play against shit for a little while.
 
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Guttersniped said:
I’ve had a bug up my ass
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IMG_3127.jpeg
 
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Lazar has 1 goal in 31 games...he's should be our 13th forward. If he wasnt a center he wouldn't be in this lineup. Cotter, Noesen, Kovacevic will drop the mitts before Lazar does. He literally is only in the lineup because our bottom 6 sucks and he can winna faceoff here and there. Fitzgerald needs to clean this bottom 6 up. Bastian has been here for awhile and has had some good moments but even he has been underwhelming. The guys best highlights the last year or so aside from that Sradium Series goal he scored have been him getting murdered on the ice.

You need a good 4th line, especially in the playoffs. I feel like ours is one of the worst in the league this year. If only Chase Stillmann didn't suck or we had some prospect to call up from the AHL to bump these guys out of the lineup. I'd honestly rather have Dowling as our 4th line center.
 
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Guttersniped said:
I think of the top 9 more in terms of production, we’re weak there and that’s a worse problem.

People sometimes fixate on a lack of production from the 4th line but you just don’t get that much from them.

Obviously our forward depth sucks everywhere.
Click to expand...
This^
I can't get upset about fourth liners at this point.
It's sad to say but I'm concerned we missed the 'win before everyone gets paid' window, unless we get galvanizing presences in the lockerroom or behind the bench.

We had Jacques night earlier in the season, but for anyone who remembers, there was a district turning point when we jettisoned Kirk Muller and Bernie Nichols... Good players but guys with $$$ contracts who had stepped out of hungry mode; and added Claude Lemieux who was *always* in win mode plus Jacque and Larry behind the bench. Jacques convinced Stevens to give up the scoring 78pts a season game and make sacrifices to win, and behind those four people you could see everyone fall in line, almost out of fear. You could see Driver, MacLean, and Dano morph from 'loser' to part of something bigger. Plus you had rookies that didn't know better like Zelepukin/Guerin/Rolston/Brylin/Marty.

I think Bratt gets it. I think Palat understands but has now gotten used to losing (he might've been one of the few forwards that played very hard last night). I think Noesen gets it. Nico gets it but I don't think he's the kinda guy that inspires fear of losing in teammates. Pesce might, the way he blocks shots.

I don't think Dougie gets it. I think Jack and Meier have been on bad teams so long they revert to selfish play instead of trusting the system; and neither of them inspire teammates to do anything but watch. Mercer and Luke and Nemec don't get it yet because of youth.

I know there's talk of Fitz making a move, but unless it's a heart transplant, I don't see how something that just makes us moderately better on paper fixes this unless Keefe performs magic. On paper I think we are excellent, but there is an absolute need for guys to put aside their personal feelings and stats and pond hockey and do what needs to happen to win consistently. Go through the wall mentality

On some nights, They all look like they're showing up to open skate at the beer League. Can't happen.

Edit: I'll point out that Lou's tdl heart transplant was Neil Broten of USA hockey Miracle, and Jacques converted 50-goal scorer Carpenter to 3c.

We're actually really *that* close to a cup if we can find the things that turn these guys on to winning.
 
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Noesen was brought into be that depth scoring guy, but that was assuming Mercer would bounce back and that Timo would be fully healed and playing better. Both have been pretty rough this season so Noesen has been the #4 forward by default.

Between Meier, Mercer, and Palat you have three guys that are not carrying their weight in regard to their salary. All have shown flashes but the lack of consistent production from those guys really kills the vibe.

The 4th line needs a lobotomy but that will happen naturally if you get good players higher in the lineup to push the Haulas and Lazars down to where they should be.
 
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ZachaFlockaFlame said:
You're out of your mind if you think they won't. They were plays tonight that they f***ed up in a February regular season game with next to no intensity as a playoff game v a Western conference team. Jack gives Tatar a decent pass to outlet and Tatar runs himself into the board in the defensive zone and the same shift Bastian takes a stupid penalty on Theadore to let Vegas go on the powerplay. They're not good players or anyone I'm comfortable going into a playoff series with and that's coming from someone who banged the table for Tatar to be brought back after 22-23.
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You're using examples from a single game, the worst game the Devils have played this season. Bastian with Tatar so far this season has been 61% xG and +3 together. Now do they have to upgrade from Lazar? Absolutely, Lazar has been awful since he has returned from injury, a total non-factor.

ZachaFlockaFlame said:
Okposo had 22 points on Buffalo before being traded and if I had to check that's probably more than our fourth line combined currently. Not to mention Bastian and Tatar have randomly move around the lineup so they're not true 4th liners this year
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Bastian and Tatar play 4th line ice time, this cannot be disputed. Bastian is 10th in forwards' 5v5 ice time per game, more than a full minute behind Haula, Tatar is 11th. That's what a 4th line player would play. Tatar played briefly with Nico at the beginning of the year but that's it.

ZachaFlockaFlame said:
Stenlund is an elite face-off guy + PKer

Cousins played for Florida throughout the lineup throughout the years and was on the second line in their 2023 Cup run so not a true "4th liner" with ability to play anywhere in the lineup

Lorentz and Lomberg suck but they're just change of pace guys when injuries happen + change in momentum.

Also, not to mention, the Devils are never playing the way Florida does so why even bring them up?
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Because you claimed the Devils would be 'out in 5' if they had Bastian and Tatar playing in the playoffs because they 'can't score', and I gave you an example of a team who won the Stanley Cup whose 4th line scored 2 goals the entire tournament. Extreme statements like the one you made make no sense and have no basis - your 4th line matters, but it plays less than the other 3 lines and consequently matters less. A team generally does not win or lose a playoff series on the basis of it, and it's basically a fluke if they do.
 
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SteveCangialosi123 said:
I forgot about Labanc. He has 2 goals this year and 4 in his last 85. He may be cooked.

The lack of centers drafted under Fitz has annoyed me. Utica is a wasteland because of it. And I want more swings for the fences at fast talented guys. Forget about the harder to play against shit for a little while.
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So many people on this board were wild that we didn’t sign kevin lebanc. He was going to be the greatest FA signing ever
 
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Mgd31 said:
Palat - Hughes - Bratt
Meier - Hischier - Noesen
xxx - xxx - Mercer
Tatar - Haula - Bastian

2 new forwards please so I never have to see Dowling or Lazar in the lineup again.
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I don’t see how Tatar stays while the Devils try to upgrade the forward unit. He was supposed to be a second/third line option but he’s been on the fourth line almost all year.

Once we add two forwards, Cotter/Haula move down to the fourth line and I doubt Tatar is playing over Bastian/Lazar for that third spot come playoff time.
 
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My brother is a big Sabres fan and knows Mittlestadt well. He says Mittlestadt’s biggest strength is his playmaking ability and creativity. Not really a goal scorer and doesn’t have a strong shot. Average defensively. I get we are thin at center but is his skill set really what we need? Calling all goal scorers!!

He makes 5.75m and is signed for another two years. Having a poor season so Colorado would be selling low. I think I’d rather have Bjorkstrand…
 
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Triumph said:
You're using examples from a single game, the worst game the Devils have played this season. Bastian with Tatar so far this season has been 61% xG and +3 together. Now do they have to upgrade from Lazar? Absolutely, Lazar has been awful since he has returned from injury, a total non-factor.



Bastian and Tatar play 4th line ice time, this cannot be disputed. Bastian is 10th in forwards' 5v5 ice time per game, more than a full minute behind Haula, Tatar is 11th. That's what a 4th line player would play. Tatar played briefly with Nico at the beginning of the year but that's it.



Because you claimed the Devils would be 'out in 5' if they had Bastian and Tatar playing in the playoffs because they 'can't score', and I gave you an example of a team who won the Stanley Cup whose 4th line scored 2 goals the entire tournament. Extreme statements like the one you made make no sense and have no basis - your 4th line matters, but it plays less than the other 3 lines and consequently matters less. A team generally does not win or lose a playoff series on the basis of it, and it's basically a fluke if they do.
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Yes because comparing our bottom 6 to a team who made the dance the year prior is equally smart and I told you why it's completely foolish to compare ourselves to Florida but you do you with coddling this team's bottom 6 being beyond pathetic and especially the fourth line. Tatar has a history of no showing the playoffs through his whole career. Bastian was apart of a line that got absolutely mauled in 2023 v Carolina. But yeah both of them won't be issues, keep telling yourself that.
 
Please stay the hell away from Casey Mittelstadt, would not be a fit here unless he could find a way to unlock Meier and I don’t want to double down on that questionable investment. Also does nothing to take away tough minutes from Nico. Hard pass
 
AfroThunder396 said:
Noesen was brought into be that depth scoring guy, but that was assuming Mercer would bounce back and that Timo would be fully healed and playing better. Both have been pretty rough this season so Noesen has been the #4 forward by default.

Between Meier, Mercer, and Palat you have three guys that are not carrying their weight in regard to their salary. All have shown flashes but the lack of consistent production from those guys really kills the vibe.

The 4th line needs a lobotomy but that will happen naturally if you get good players higher in the lineup to push the Haulas and Lazars down to where they should be.
Click to expand...

Meier shooting below 10% won't continue when the guy has been at 12-13% his whole career

And the bottom 6 has been destroyed by Fitz being a moron and getting brain damage from the 2023 Carolina series like the whole franchise has
 
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longislanddevil said:
My brother is a big Sabres fan and knows Mittlestadt well. He says Mittlestadt’s biggest strength is his playmaking ability and creativity. Not really a goal scorer and doesn’t have a strong shot. Average defensively. I get we are thin at center but is his skill set really what we need? Calling all goal scorers!!

He makes 5.75m and is signed for another two years. Having a poor season so Colorado would be selling low. I think I’d rather have Bjorkstrand…
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I am inclined to agree with you. Although with that description, I would be okay with him as a 3C for rest of the year centering Mercer . I shy away a bit because he has another year left also at over $5 mill. I personally think there are better options.
 
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Ol Dirty Bstrd said:
Please stay the hell away from Casey Mittelstadt, would not be a fit here unless he could find a way to unlock Meier and I don’t want to double down on that questionable investment. Also does nothing to take away tough minutes from Nico. Hard pass
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That’s the feeling I get, as well. He’s a playmaker and creative but who is he setting up? He wouldn’t fit with Jack and Bratt…isn’t really good defensively. I agree that the value would be if he could unlock Meier.
 
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