Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part II

[Better Call Sal]

Good stuff. Siegs is a cool dude.

 

[devilsblood]

Good stuff. Siegs is a cool dude.

Does he have Thai roots?

 

[Lou Bloom]

Not to diminish what he has done this season, but he wouldn't be getting PP1 time here, and I think it's difficult to figure how a young center who is not good at faceoffs and get's very little d-zone starts fits in NJ this season.

I'd also note that his line has a poor xGF%(46.7%), but this number looks low relative to his cf%- sf%-scf%. Still relative to the rest of Utah, his on ice numbers are meh at best.

He’s produced 22 EV strength points which would be 5th on the Devils and only 1 point behind Meier in 3 less games. The Devils could absolutely use a player that is providing his level of scoring ability somewhere in the lineup.

And Nemec’s numbers were poor this season and he hasn’t played great in the AHL this season. I’m not even saying Cooley is going to be some star level player or anything like that, just that if you had the choice to re-do that pick at this time that anyone would choose Cooley over Nemec right now.

And I’m not even trying to harp on the pick, It was a weak draft at the top to begin with and I thought Nemec was a fine choice on draft day. My whole point was the ridiculous logic that fans had at the time for not even wanting Cooley in the discussion.

 

[JrFischer54]

Are you really this far out of the loop?

i can't even see the loop from where i am

 

[Devils731]

Does he have Thai roots?

His Mom is from Thailand.

 

[devilsblood]

He’s produced 22 EV strength points which would be 5th on the Devils and only 1 point behind Meier in 3 less games. The Devils could absolutely use a player that is providing his level of scoring ability somewhere in the lineup.

And Nemec’s numbers were poor this season and he hasn’t played great in the AHL this season. I’m not even saying Cooley is going to be some star level player or anything like that, just that if you had the choice to re-do that pick at this time that anyone would choose Cooley over Nemec right now.

And I’m not even trying to harp on the pick, It was a weak draft at the top to begin with and I thought Nemec was a fine choice on draft day. My whole point was the ridiculous logic that fans had at the time for not even wanting Cooley in the discussion.

Without pinning down a position, it's easy to say we could use him somewhere in the lineup. But then you try to find where and it's less easy.

Granted Dowling has played some very easy minutes(though I doubt Cooley would flourish with Dowlings linemates) but if healthy Haula and Lazar in the bottom playing more defensive oriented minutes is probably how Keefe would approach.

But maybe Haula on Cooley's wing they way we saw Haula on Jack's wing in years past? That is something I could see Keefe being comfortable with.

His Mom is from Thailand.

Interesting, I always wondered where his coloring was from.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Ahh the wheel of repeated discussions has fallen back onto Nemec.

We got the luxury of being able to let our top prospects bake a bit longer, something we couldn't do in the past. That's a good thing

It's crazy how something always has to be wrong. It can't just be Nemec is fine and will be on the team when we aren't as deep

 

[TheBeerNerd]

Interesting, I always wondered where his coloring was from.

What is he, a piece of meat?

Seriously though, I just assumed he was all Swiss German because Taylor Lautner is, and he has an oddly brown skin tone.

 

[Guttersniped]

The vast majority of people on this board didn’t even think Cooley should be in consideration for the pick because they didn’t want to spend the 2nd overall pick on a 3C and because he was a “perimeter player”.

It was a bad argument at the time and it’s so far proven to be just as bad an argument.

Cooley wouldn’t solve the 3C problem right now, he’s a sheltered scoring forward on Utah.

He probably doesn’t solve it in the future either. He’s presumably a scoring winger/Jack back-up here.

It was a weird draft.

Most people wanted the guy who went 1st in hopes that we got a Ratanen Lite. It also looked like that’s who we would draft.

Cooley beat Nemec in this poll in this June 10 poll

 

[tailfins]

Cooley wouldn’t solve the 3C problem right now, he’s a sheltered scoring forward on Utah.

He probably doesn’t solve it in the future either. He’s presumably a scoring winger/Jack back-up here.

It was a weird draft.

Most people wanted the guy who went 1st in hopes that we got a Ratanen Lite. It also looked like that’s who we would draft.

Cooley beat Nemec in this poll in this June 10 poll


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The problem with the Nemec pick, IMO, is that we drafted an offensive D one year after drafting Luke, while the GM wants to build a big, physical blue line.

Jiricek at least has the size and physicality that Fitz seems to want. Wright, meanwhile, has the "grittier," two-way game that Fitz also seems to be searching for up front. I think Nemec is outperforming both of those players, but I could understand either of those two picks from a team-building perspective.

The way it's shaken out, it's clear that the decision will come down to Dougie vs Nemec. If Nemec can wait until 2026, maybe this is easier to solve. But, if Nemec is pushing for NHL time next year, something needs to give.

I think everyone's preference is that Nemec is proving to be so good that the Devils are forced to trade Dougie. Right now, though, the decision isn't that clear cut.

 

[Forge]

So likely no Grits this year, right?

 

[TheBeerNerd]

So likely no Grits this year, right?

Not unless we make a deep playoff run.

 

[Guttersniped]

The problem with the Nemec pick, IMO, is that we drafted an offensive D one year after drafting Luke, while the GM wants to build a big, physical blue line.

Jiricek at least has the size and physicality that Fitz seems to want. Wright, meanwhile, has the "grittier," two-way game that Fitz also seems to be searching for up front. I think Nemec is outperforming both of those players, but I could understand either of those two picks from a team-building perspective.

The way it's shaken out, it's clear that the decision will come down to Dougie vs Nemec. If Nemec can wait until 2026, maybe this is easier to solve. But, if Nemec is pushing for NHL time next year, something needs to give.

I think everyone's preference is that Nemec is proving to be so good that the Devils are forced to trade Dougie. Right now, though, the decision isn't that clear cut.

Jiricek’s skating scared before the draft.

 

[HBK27]

Solid article about potential prospect-for-prospect swaps to address the 3C situation.

 

[Oneiro]

Look at what Fitz has done in bringing Haula, Palat, Lazar, Dillon, Pesce, etc.

You are not getting a young kid at the 3C position. It's trade for a veteran or sign him at UFA. Prospect swap for a team at this stage in the game, fully in their window, makes no sense. Again, learning time is over.

Prospect for established NHLer is the most likely move if it's anything beyond the O'Connor / Evans / Tanev or Hall / Palmieri-tier. And this is most likely when we've accrued more cap space or a summer move.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Ahh the wheel of repeated discussions has fallen back onto Nemec.

We got the luxury of being able to let our top prospects bake a bit longer, something we couldn't do in the past. That's a good thing

It's crazy how something always has to be wrong. It can't just be Nemec is fine and will be on the team when we aren't as deep

Plus Defensemen generally take longer to mature. Also assessing their particular game and development depends more on the team context around them than a forward’s does, particularly a winger. From what we saw of Nemec last year I continue to think he’s going to be a superb NHL defender for a decade or more. We would be crazy to move him.

 

[devilsblood]

What is he, a piece of meat?

Seriously though, I just assumed he was all Swiss German because Taylor Lautner is, and he has an oddly brown skin tone.

I don’t know who Lautner is but if he has a darker complexion i imagine there is a southern bloodline in there somewhere.

 

[dgibb10]

Look at what Fitz has done in bringing Haula, Palat, Lazar, Dillon, Pesce, etc.

You are not getting a young kid at the 3C position. It's trade for a veteran or sign him at UFA. Prospect swap for a team at this stage in the game, fully in their window, makes no sense. Again, learning time is over.

Prospect for established NHLer is the most likely move if it's anything beyond the O'Connor / Evans / Tanev or Hall / Palmieri-tier. And this is most likely when we've accrued more cap space or a summer move.

Yup. Unfortunately kids don't tend to do well in that role.

The more I think about it I think the solution that makes sense is trying to buy retention on one of the many 3Cs with somewhat bloated contracts. I don't think 3C is the type of role that you're going to find prexisting RFA bargains on, and when you do they aren't generally available.

But go after a retained Copp or Compher, or a Jason Dickinson, or a Sissons or RoR, or a Coyle, or a Backlund, or a Pageau.

If there was one "3C" I would move Nemec for however, it would be for 1 singular guy. Anthony Cirelli. That would be it. That's the only guy. And calling him a "3C" is egregious to say the least. He'd play on that line, but he'd be playing 18 minutes a night like Mercer does for us.

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

Yup. Unfortunately kids don't tend to do well in that role.

The more I think about it I think the solution that makes sense is trying to buy retention on one of the many 3Cs with somewhat bloated contracts. I don't think 3C is the type of role that you're going to find prexisting RFA bargains on, and when you do they aren't generally available.

But go after a retained Copp or Compher, or a Jason Dickinson, or a Sissons or RoR, or a Coyle, or a Backlund, or a Pageau.

If there was one "3C" I would move Nemec for however, it would be for 1 singular guy. Anthony Cirelli. That would be it. That's the only guy. And calling him a "3C" is egregious to say the least. He'd play on that line, but he'd be playing 18 minutes a night like Mercer does for us.

Cirelli could've been had before this year but his offensive breakout makes his contract a bargain for Tampa and makes him a building block. Him and the Stamkos for Guentzel swap are two of the biggest reasons they're back to being a semi-Cup threat (still need some defensive depth).

 

[dgibb10]

Cirelli could've been had before this year but his offensive breakout makes his contract a bargain for Tampa and makes him a building block. Him and the Stamkos for Guentzel swap are two of the biggest reasons they're back to being a semi-Cup threat (still need some defensive depth).

Even before this year he was a big bargain imo. Actual ELITE defensive C

 

[devilsblood]

Cirelli could've been had before this year but his offensive breakout makes his contract a bargain for Tampa and makes him a building block. Him and the Stamkos for Guentzel swap are two of the biggest reasons they're back to being a semi-Cup threat (still need some defensive depth).

I don't think he was available even prior to this breakout.

Bit of an aside but Tampa's top 8 fwd's in terms of 5v5 TOI all have shooting %'s in the double digits.

Back on topic, Cirelli is at 15%. Even more extreme is his Pk shooting percentage of 28%. His PK point/60 rate is better then any of our fwd's 5v5. And of course his PP shooting percentage is 33%. Moral of the story is this may be a bit of an unsustainable point production rate.

Still, Tampa is not trading him.

 

[devilsblood]

The problem with the Nemec pick, IMO, is that we drafted an offensive D one year after drafting Luke, while the GM wants to build a big, physical blue line.

Jiricek at least has the size and physicality that Fitz seems to want. Wright, meanwhile, has the "grittier," two-way game that Fitz also seems to be searching for up front. I think Nemec is outperforming both of those players, but I could understand either of those two picks from a team-building perspective.

The way it's shaken out, it's clear that the decision will come down to Dougie vs Nemec. If Nemec can wait until 2026, maybe this is easier to solve. But, if Nemec is pushing for NHL time next year, something needs to give.

I think everyone's preference is that Nemec is proving to be so good that the Devils are forced to trade Dougie. Right now, though, the decision isn't that clear cut.

Was Nemec viewed as an offensive D-man? I kind of remember 2 way d-man.

And interestingly Luke now looks more like a legit 2 way then strictly an offensive d-man.

Casey? He still seems to be offensive oriented and given his size I would be surprised if he can ever be leaned on too heavily defensively. But some of the real high offensive d-men in recent years such as Makar and Fox, are so good skill wise that they can play defensive minutes to high end results.

 

[devilsblood]

Ahh the wheel of repeated discussions has fallen back onto Nemec.

We got the luxury of being able to let our top prospects bake a bit longer, something we couldn't do in the past. That's a good thing

It's crazy how something always has to be wrong. It can't just be Nemec is fine and will be on the team when we aren't as deep

But assuming we sign Kova, which I am a big proponent of, the RHD position, unless there is a trade, doesn't get less deep for multiple years.

I'm more a proponent of looking to trade Hamilton in the off season but given the current need for a 3rd line center, discussing the potential for a Nemec trade in season makes sense.

 

[TheBeerNerd]

But assuming we sign Kova, which I am a big proponent of, the RHD position, unless there is a trade, doesn't get less deep for multiple years.

I'm more a proponent of looking to trade Hamilton in the off season but given the current need for a 3rd line center, discussing the potential for a Nemec trade in season makes sense.

I'm not trading Nemec for a 3C and I highly doubt Fitz sees him as a chip to move in such a trade.

 

[NJDfan86]

Yup. Unfortunately kids don't tend to do well in that role.

The more I think about it I think the solution that makes sense is trying to buy retention on one of the many 3Cs with somewhat bloated contracts. I don't think 3C is the type of role that you're going to find prexisting RFA bargains on, and when you do they aren't generally available.

But go after a retained Copp or Compher, or a Jason Dickinson, or a Sissons or RoR, or a Coyle, or a Backlund, or a Pageau.

If there was one "3C" I would move Nemec for however, it would be for 1 singular guy. Anthony Cirelli. That would be it. That's the only guy. And calling him a "3C" is egregious to say the least. He'd play on that line, but he'd be playing 18 minutes a night like Mercer does for us.

A retained Coyle has intrigued me as he is 6’3, RHS, and solid on faceoffs - could play 3c or even wing with Jack Bratt on occasion. I also think his age and mileage means he probably isn’t going to cost a ton, we would be paying mostly for the retention.

plenty of playoff experience as well.