Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part II

[Forge]

What will it take to fix Alexander Holtz?

It seems that Vegas is attempting to develop Holtz, something the Devils were unable to achieve.

Good move by Fitz to bail when he did. Cheap bottom 6 roster player for two years and a third round pick for two guys that may fail to be NHL regulars in a couple of years. Really seems like Holtz is on that Kaliyev path at this juncture.

 

[BostonDevil]

Palat isn’t really any good but I think he has better puck skills at this point than a Haula or Tatar.

Not a high bar

 

[Guttersniped]

What will it take to fix Alexander Holtz?

It seems that Vegas is attempting to develop Holtz, something the Devils were unable to achieve.

How are they “attempting to develop” Holtz?

The article you link says he’s on the 4th line, playing worse this season compared to last year and in danger of getting sent to the AHL.

He’s floundering.


2023-24 TOI 954:04 ATOI 11:38
5v5 TOI 835:34 ATOI 10:11
15G 11A 26 pts 111 SOG 13.51 SH%
1.08 G/60 0.79 A/60 1.87 P/60 7.97 SOG/60
PP TOI 103:34 ATOI 1:17
1G 1A 2 pts 10 SOG 10.0 SH%
vs
2024-25 TOI 458:19 ATOI 11:45
5v5 TOI 430:12 ATOI 11:01
3G 6A 9 pts 48 SOG 6.25 SH%
0.42 G/60 0.84 A/60 1.26 P/60 6.69 SOG/60
PP TOI 23:27 ATOI 0:37
1A 1 pt 3 SOG

And his ice time is dropping.

Oct 9 - Nov 21

5v5 238:43 TOI 11:56 ATOI
1G 6A 7 pts 30 SOG 3.33 SH%
PP 14:06 0:42 ATOI
1A 1 pt
2 SOG

Nov 22 - Jan 4

5v5 191:28 TOI 10:04 ATOI
2G 2 pts
18 SOG 11.11 SH%
PP 9:21 TOI 0:21 ATOI
1 SOG

 

[Bad Goalie]

I said most not all

I'm relatively new on the scene, but I'm not sold yet. HA Ha

 

[NjDevsRR]

Devils didn’t lose ground this last stretch. Time to go back to their winning ways

 

[Mgd31]

How are they “attempting to develop” Holtz?

The article you link says he’s on the 4th line, playing worse this season compared to last year and in danger of getting sent to the AHL.

He’s floundering.


2023-24 TOI 954:04 ATOI 11:38
5v5 TOI 835:34 ATOI 10:11
15G 11A 26 pts 111 SOG 13.51 SH%
1.08 G/60 0.79 A/60 1.87 P/60 7.97 SOG/60
PP TOI 103:34 ATOI 1:17
1G 1A 2 pts 10 SOG 10.0 SH%
vs
2024-25 TOI 458:19 ATOI 11:45
5v5 TOI 430:12 ATOI 11:01
3G 6A 9 pts 48 SOG 6.25 SH%
0.42 G/60 0.84 A/60 1.26 P/60 6.69 SOG/60
PP TOI 23:27 ATOI 0:37
1A 1 pt 3 SOG

And his ice time is dropping.

Oct 9 - Nov 21
View attachment 958090
5v5 238:43 TOI 11:56 ATOI
1G 6A 7 pts 30 SOG 3.33 SH%
PP 14:06 0:42 ATOI
1A 1 pt
2 SOG

Nov 22 - Jan 4
View attachment 958089
5v5 191:28 TOI 10:04 ATOI
2G 2 pts
18 SOG 11.11 SH%
PP 9:21 TOI 0:21 ATOI
1 SOG

Exactly. Holtz won't be seeing the ice anymore after Vegas adds after the deadline.

 

[Clam Jensen]

Wish we had Shane Wright instead of Nemec

Thank god you’re not GM.

 

[guitarguyvic]

It’s a real damn shame we couldn’t pawn Holtz off in the Meier deal.

 

[forceten]

Yup. It was Logan Cooley who met an immediate need (Center) and who was the best player of that draft's top 5. Puzzle why we didn't nab him when we had tons of defense. Clearly they saw something in Nemec that made them unwilling to pass him up.

 

[devilsblood]

It’s a real damn shame we couldn’t pawn Holtz off in the Meier deal.

Included Holtz, kept Z. That would have been great.

 

[devilsblood]

Yup. It was Logan Cooley who met an immediate need (Center) and who was the best player of that draft's top 5. Puzzle why we didn't nab him when we had tons of defense. Clearly they saw something in Nemec that made them unwilling to pass him up.

At the time we were lacking in RHD prospects.

I don't remember many who thought Cooley was the best player in that draft.

 

[Unknown Caller]

Yup. It was Logan Cooley who met an immediate need (Center) and who was the best player of that draft's top 5. Puzzle why we didn't nab him when we had tons of defense. Clearly they saw something in Nemec that made them unwilling to pass him up.

Same exact reason why we took Silayev over Buium. Cooley was too “redundant” in our organization since we had smaller skilled players at the top of the NHL lineup.

I’ll admit that I was perfectly happy with the Nemec pick though, and I’m still confident that he’s going to be a stud once he fully develops.

 

[Saugus]

Ideally, Nemec and Casey would both become mainstays on playoff caliber defensive corps for years to come.

Realistically, it is likely that at least one of them will be dealt to address other needs, because of a perceived overlap in their roles. (Yes they play different styles, but both are RHD and there are only so many slots).

I just hope we pick the right one to keep.

 

[Lou Bloom]

Yup. It was Logan Cooley who met an immediate need (Center) and who was the best player of that draft's top 5. Puzzle why we didn't nab him when we had tons of defense. Clearly they saw something in Nemec that made them unwilling to pass him up.

The vast majority of people on this board didn’t even think Cooley should be in consideration for the pick because they didn’t want to spend the 2nd overall pick on a 3C and because he was a “perimeter player”.

It was a bad argument at the time and it’s so far proven to be just as bad an argument.

 

[Better Call Sal]

At the time we were lacking in RHD prospects.

I don't remember many who thought Cooley was the best player in that draft.

You're correct, and then Fitz spent that whole draft on RDs pretty much. Nemec, Casey, Leddy and Barabosha.

 

[Devs3cups]

I was happy with any of the LD available at 10 in the last draft, so I’m excited to see how that turns out. I’m excited about Silayev.

 

[NJDevils17]

Nemec played well up here last year (to start, he struggled later in the season) but post-injury this offseason he hasn’t really found his game.

Luxury we can keep him in the AHL but I think he’d be fine up here if needed.

 

[devilsblood]

You're correct, and then Fitz spent that whole draft on RDs pretty much. Nemec, Casey, Leddy and Barabosha.

Shero did similar in 2019 in regards to drafting D-men with size.

 

[Better Call Sal]

I was happy with any of the LD available at 10 in the last draft, so I’m excited to see how that turns out. I’m excited about Silayev.

And SIlayev was largely projected in the top 4-5 selections of the draft. He's certainly worth where he was chosen, and he is a very unique prospect given his skillset and size.

 

[devilsblood]

The vast majority of people on this board didn’t even think Cooley should be in consideration for the pick because they didn’t want to spend the 2nd overall pick on a 3C and because he was a “perimeter player”.

It was a bad argument at the time and it’s so far proven to be just as bad an argument.

Not to diminish what he has done this season, but he wouldn't be getting PP1 time here, and I think it's difficult to figure how a young center who is not good at faceoffs and get's very little d-zone starts fits in NJ this season.

I'd also note that his line has a poor xGF%(46.7%), but this number looks low relative to his cf%- sf%-scf%. Still relative to the rest of Utah, his on ice numbers are meh at best.

 

[JrFischer54]

Saw nemec name mentioned and honestly wow kinda forgot about the kid. Dang how’s he doing in the minors? How’s Casey doing?


Off subject but put me down as a guy that would like hall back here if the price is a third round pick like mentioned

 

[Mgd31]

Not to diminish what he has done this season, but he wouldn't be getting PP1 time here, and I think it's difficult to figure how a young center who is not good at faceoffs and get's very little d-zone starts fits in NJ this season.

I'd also note that his line has a poor xGF%(46.7%), but this number looks low relative to his cf%- sf%-scf%. Still relative to the rest of Utah, his on ice numbers are meh at best.

Yea, I wanted Cooley and I am concerned about Nemec wallowing in the AHL in his D+2 season.

But let's see what happens. Right now Cooley has the 2nd worst xGF on a top 10 xGF team and seems to be benefitting from a high on ice shooting and save percentage.

Honestly this draft looks like it is going to end up pretty crappy. Not much you can do here.

 

[devilsblood]

Saw nemec name mentioned and honestly wow kinda forgot about the kid. Dang how’s he doing in the minors? How’s Casey doing?


Off subject but put me down as a guy that would like hall back here if the price is a third round pick like mentioned

Are you really this far out of the loop?

 

[minibrodeur]

At the time, we thought we were pretty set at the C position with 3 young promising NHLrs. Another reason why RHD and Nemec were valued above Cooley.

 

[devilsblood]

Yea, I wanted Cooley too and I am concerned about Nemec wallowing in the AHL is his D+2.

But let's see what happens. Right now Cooley has the 2nd worst xGF on a top 10 xGF team and seems to be benefitting from a high on ice shooting and save percentage.

Honestly this draft looks like it is going to end up pretty crappy. Not much you can do here.

When you don't have the real high end guys, they can take awhiles to develop, so I wouldn't categorize it as crappy just yet.

Cooley looks good for a 20 year old, but what we'd be looking for in a 3rd center is not a guy who has skills, but needs protected minutes to flourish(and even then struggles in terms of possession numbers).

Similarly Nemec is getting squeezed because we (Fitz) couldn't afford to be a non playoff team this year, and Kova is the RHD equivalent of what we'd be looking for in a 3rd center, someone who can play some difficult defensive oriented minutes.