Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part II

[JimEIV]

The ironic part about Smith is the year he was garbage in preseason, he made the roster. And the year he looked good in preseason, he didn't make the roster. Nemec and Smith aren't comparable whatsoever, lol. Butcher's skating was abysmal and he was a PP merchant with the league MVP feeding him and that entire PP1 passes, that was never going to last. Maybe Nemec does suck but PTSD and just saying he'll suck isn't the truth at this particular juncture of his career.

The reason I brought up those players wasn't to compare them as as players but to bring up the looking the other way to the obvious and glaring holes in their games that eventually became the reason for their end of time here.

We have a tendency here to make believe that problems don't exist... wether it be Bergfors, Tedenby, Josefson, Larsson, McLeod, Smith, Holtz...tons of others

We make believe we don't see the suck until there is no choice but to admit it

 

[TheBeerNerd]

In positive news and views, the PDOcast episode where they gave out presents to teams had us as “the person who already has everything.”

 

[Saugus]

I was trying to figure out how we added 4 pages to this thread when there are no games and the entire league is in a roster freeze.

Then I read through and said, “oh, of course”.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

The reason I brought up those players wasn't to compare them as as players but to bring up the looking the other way to the obvious and glaring holes in their games that eventually became the reason for their end of time here.

We have a tendency here to make believe that problems don't exist... wether it be Bergfors, Tedenby, Josefson, Larsson, McLeod, Smith, Holtz...tons of others

We make believe we don't see the suck until there is no choice but to admit it

Bergfors and Larsson shouldn't matter, they went in packages for elite talent coming back the other way. McLeod was on the way being a very good depth piece before it was found out he was a gigantic POS before he became a Devil. Josefson was whatever but that was a classic Conte pick of high floor, low ceiling. He went back to Sweden and tore it up, maybe it was just never meant to be for him in the NHL. Shit happens. Smith honestly just sucked outside of his first year and his skating regressed beyond belief after his first year for whatever reason. As for Holtz, I love the guy, but his skating is a massive issue and it's clear that the organization had draft remorse with him. Nemec, just being a RHD and the second 2nd overall pedigree, will have suitors no matter what if the Devils decide to move on from him. He's not in the same category as any of those guys.

 

[Triumph]

Bergfors and Larsson shouldn't matter, they went in packages for elite talent coming back the other way. McLeod was on the way being a very good depth piece before it was found out he was a gigantic POS before he became a Devil. Josefson was whatever but that was a classic Conte pick of high floor, low ceiling. He went back to Sweden and tore it up, maybe it was just never meant to be for him in the NHL. Shit happens. Smith honestly just sucked outside of his first year and his skating regressed beyond belief after his first year for whatever reason. As for Holtz, I love the guy, but his skating is a massive issue and it's clear that the organization had draft remorse with him. Nemec, just being a RHD and the second 2nd overall pedigree, will have suitors no matter what if the Devils decide to move on from him. He's not in the same category as any of those guys.

You will realize that while this sort of argument is fun because you get to stroll down memory lane and name a bunch of guys and access parts of your brain you haven't been in for a long time, it's ultimately going nowhere. It's bad faith all the way down.

 

[JimEIV]

I suppose if you can't understand what's being said everything is perceived as bad faith.


It has almost nothing to with the players themselves and has everything thing to do with homerism and the unwillingness to recognize a deficient player.

Which is really the bad faith argument? The blind zealot homerism or someone that points out its consistency here?

Edit: and the best is the nonsensical charts, graphs and meaningless stats for your confirmation bias as the player is headed out to play in somewhere Europe in a year or so...that trail of tears is as old as this board.

 

[Figgie]

Come on, Kovacevic is a journeyman 28 year old that has never found a real home in the NHL that's what beat our #2 overall pick out of a spot...how many top 5 picks are in the AHL at 21 years old?

He wasn't as good as you think...if he was, he'd be in the lineup being allowed to work through some of kinks...but he's been bad

He's probably not even the next D inline for a call up. Maybe not even the the second.

Kovasevic have been outstanding this season. One of the best shutdown defenders. Not just a "journeyman".

And you have seen zero games from him this year in Utica so how can you know will he be 1st 2nd or 3rd call up if we got some injuries on D?

And after you have so strong opinions so I would like to hear that what you would do with Nemec right now? Trade away?

 

[JimEIV]

Kovasevic have been outstanding this season. One of the best shutdown defenders. Not just a "journeyman".

And you have seen zero games from him this year in Utica so how can you know will he be 1st 2nd or 3rd call up if we got some injuries on D?

And after you have so strong opinions so I would like to hear that what you would do with Nemec right now? Trade away?

He's about to be 28 years old has 180 NHL games with 3 different teams 8 years from his draft year....one of the best? Oh my.

 

[Figgie]

He's about to be 28 years old has 180 NHL games with 3 different teams 8 years from his draft year....one of the best? Oh my.

Yeah that's wrong said by me but he has been very good partner with Siegenthaler and if you look analytics so they have been one of the best shutdown partners this year. Do you even watch Devils games?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

He's about to be 28 years old has 180 NHL games with 3 different teams 8 years from his draft year....one of the best? Oh my.

Yes, he absolutely has been one of the best shutdown defenders in the NHL this year. Both the eye-test and the analytics bear this out. Here is xGA/60:

Here is CA/60:

Here is HDCA/60

Have you even watched this team this year? Honest question.

 

[TheBeerNerd]

I was trying to figure out how we added 4 pages to this thread when there are no games and the entire league is in a roster freeze.

Then I read through and said, “oh, of course”.

It may be the holiday season but it’s always time to doomsay when things are good.

 

[JimEIV]

Yeah that's wrong said by me but he has been very good partner with Siegenthaler and if you look analytics so they have been one of the best shutdown partners this year. Do you even watch Devils games?

I think Siegenthaler is a superior defender than Kovacevic. I think Kovacevic is in a good situation and he's serving us well.

I wouldn't trade Nemec and I would take a wait and see approach. But I honestly do think we need to rethink what that ceiling is. And in that wait and see does Casey surpass him? That changes the calculus.

 

[Lou is God]

I see Jim has found his new hill.

 

[JimEIV]

We had a 2022-23 Siegenthaler and Graves

And now we have a 2024-25 Siegenthaler and Kovacevic.

To my eye, those pairings look very similar and are reaping similar results...

Most, if not all here wrote off Siegenthaler in 2024 while the poor bastard had a broken foot and concussions all while having to babysit Nemec as his most common partner.

That's not annecdotal... Nemec was a chore.

Yes I know Graves and Siegenthaler weren't a pair in 2023...and he played nearly all of his 5v5 time with Dougie. And Graves and Marino were the 2nd (mostly) pair and some severson and Graves...but my point was Siegenthaler only sucked when his partner was Nemec. Marino got a raw deal too

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

We had a 2022-23 Siegenthaler and Graves

And now we have a 2024-25 Siegenthaler and Kovacevic.

To my eye, those pairings look very similar and are reaping similar results...

Most, if not all here wrote off Siegenthaler in 2024 while the poor bastard had a broken foot and concussions all while having to babysit Nemec as his most common partner.

That's not annecdotal... Nemec was a choir.

not even close.

Of 237 DMen who played 250 minutes at 5 on 5, Graves was 109th and Siegs was 112th in CA/60.

Graves was 79th and Siegs was 112th in GA/60

Graves was 42nd and Siegs was 18th in HDCA/60.

take a look at the charts I posted above to see where Siegs/Kovacevic rank this year. Much higher.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

We had a 2022-23 Siegenthaler and Graves

And now we have a 2024-25 Siegenthaler and Kovacevic.

To my eye, those pairings look very similar and are reaping similar results...

Most, if not all here wrote off Siegenthaler in 2024 while the poor bastard had a broken foot and concussions all while having to babysit Nemec as his most common partner.

That's not annecdotal... Nemec was a chore.

Were Siegenthalrr and Graves are pairing in 2022-23?

 

[JimEIV]

Were Siegenthalrr and Graves are pairing in 2022-23?

No... Siegenthaler played nearly 100% of his 5v5 time with Dougie.

Graves and Marino were the pair except when Marino was hurt and Severson and Graves were a pair for about 20 games

 

[Forge]

Jack Hughes is a disgrace

 

[Forge]

I still think the most likely outcome is probably kovacevic just walks and it's dougie / pesce/ nemec or Casey on the right next year, yeah?

 

[JimEIV]

Jack Hughes is a disgrace

That's not what I said... even they guy that loves to bring it up got it right this time.

 

[devilsfan950003]

Question: Could Lazar play center on the third line and send Haula to the 4th line? The Devils will probably look for a trade near the deadline, but until then, could we swap Haula with Lazar?

 

[Bleedred]

Question: Could Lazar play center on the third line and send Haula to the 4th line? The Devils will probably look for a trade near the deadline, but until then, could we swap Haula with Lazar?

Lazar probably brings a bit less offense, but we could always try it out. I think we're at our deepest with Lazar on the 4th line though.

 

[Forge]

That's not what I said... even they guy that loves to bring it up got it right this time.

You say so many ridiculous things that they are hard to keep straight. My apologies

 

[JimEIV]

You say so many ridiculous things that they are hard to keep straight. My apologies

Ridiculous things that have an uncanny way of being right in time

 

[Forge]

Ridiculous things that have an uncanny way of being right in time

A legend in your own mind, my friend