Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part II

[MasterofGrond]

Are we letting our best defensive dman go or is Nemec getting traded/rotting in the minors for another season?

kovacevic is like the 3rd best defenseman on the team 5 on 5, generously, brings nothing on the PP, obviously, and has ~30 total career games at this level

I like him, I really f***ing do, but don’t fall in love on vacation, you feel me?

 

[dgibb10]

I don’t see Tampa giving up anything for Palat and it asking a lot for a team to lose a retention spot and 3m for 2 years.

Not a lot examples of that happening.

At 3 mill I think teams would give up something.

And you pay whatever the market rate is to make it happen if you want to dump him that badly, and it should be equivalent to whatever the cost of dumping him would be

And if the cost ends up being too exhorbiant, just keep him and use the saved assets to buy retention as much as possible on other pickups. Or, tbh, you just let Kovy walk.

If you're having to get absolutely bent over on other deals to accommodate him, it stops being a luxury and a bargain to have him around.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

kovacevic is like the 3rd best defenseman on the team 5 on 5, generously, brings nothing on the PP, obviously, and has ~30 total career games at this level

I like him, I really f***ing do, but don’t fall in love on vacation, you feel me?

I much rather have Kovacevic + cap space to use up front than Hamilton on the back burner of that deal. And what does Kovacevic have to do with the powerplay? He's played his role tremendously. The Devils have replacements for Dougie waiting in the wings in Luke/Casey. You can also find cheap PP1 QB guys in UFA like we said earlier with the Carolina convo if you're that worried. The powerplay goes through Jack, not Dougie, so not sure what that argument is.

 

[Guttersniped]

Retaining 3 mil also means you'd have to find a replacement that is better for under 3 mil for it to be a positive move. I mean I think that's possible but Idk that they do.

Unless I misunderstood the proposal, I think the plan is for us not to retain on Palat. We’re giving Team 3 a pick to do it for us.

If we retained on Palat along with Team 3, and got him below 3m, then maybe that makes him more movable. Tampa isn’t giving a 2nd for him though.

Two years of retention is pretty rare for obvious reasons. It’s not easy to find a taker even if we offered two 2nds and that cost sucks.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I don't even like Palat's deal like that but giving up picks for only 3M retention is dumb, just keep him at that point. You're not gonna find a better player most likely at that price

 

[Lou Bloom]

I have 0 interest in bringing Hall back. Brandon Tanev has been more productive 5v5, Is great on the PK and forecheck and has a much cheaper contract. Hall at this point in his career is basically an offense only player that doesn't produce much offense.

 

[dgibb10]

Retaining 3 mil also means you'd have to find a replacement that is better for under 3 mil for it to be a positive move. I mean I think that's possible but Idk that they do.

We would not be retaining on palat AND paying for him.

And were you thinking that tampa would pass on Palat at 1.5 mill AAV lmao

 

[dgibb10]

Problem solved

faster winger for Jack, 3C. Palat out. Under cap. Up the offer if necessary or route casey to a different team for a piece that better suits LAs needs

 

[IDEKWTM]

Why would we want Hall? I don't get it. We need mostly bottom 6 types or a Tom Wilson-esque player. I have doubts to how well Hall in his current state would fit in on this team.

You drop Palat to the 3rd line.

 

[Guttersniped]

I much rather have Kovacevic + cap space to use up front than Hamilton on the back burner of that deal. And what does Kovacevic have to do with the powerplay? He's played his role tremendously. The Devils have replacements for Dougie waiting in the wings in Luke/Casey. You can also find cheap PP1 QB guys in UFA like we said earlier with the Carolina convo if you're that worried. The powerplay goes through Jack, not Dougie, so not sure what that argument is.

Forget Kovacevic, I don’t see where the money for Luke is with Dougie here. I get wanting to keep Dougie but that means Luke gets a bridge deal.

Hamilton (9m) + Pesce (5.5m) + Dillon (4m) + Siegenthaler (3.4m) = 21.9m

Luke on a long term deal puts that at +30m for 5 defensemen. 30m is ~32% of 92.5m.

It’s just too much to spend on defense. Honestly Fitz overspending on the Dillon contract is part of the part but we’re stuck with it now.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

kovacevic is like the 3rd best defenseman on the team 5 on 5, generously, brings nothing on the PP, obviously, and has ~30 total career games at this level

I like him, I really f***ing do, but don’t fall in love on vacation, you feel me?

I just don’t know how it’s possible to watch the games and think one of these guys is someone we really need to retain (at 9 million dollars) and one is to be discarded.

We’re playing some of the best defense the team has in decades and Kovacevic is a very significant part of that. And he doesn’t have any of the drawbacks in front of the net that Marino had that cut into his effectiveness. He won’t stop being large and in charge.

If we’re at the end of the season and he’s still the best defensive dman in the NHL, this can’t even be a consideration. You bring the player back.

 

[Alex NJD]

Nemec is still very much a player I would love to see in a Keefe system with a proper partner.

 

[dgibb10]

I just don’t know how it’s possible to watch the games and think one of these guys is someone we really need to retain (at 9 million dollars) and one is to be discarded.

We’re playing some of the best defense the team has in decades and Kovacevic is a very significant part of that. And he doesn’t have any of the drawbacks in front of the net that Marino had that cut into his effectiveness. He won’t stop being large and in charge.

If we’re at the end of the season and he’s still the best defensive dman in the NHL, this can’t even be a consideration. You bring the player back.

We also have the best power play in the NHL and Hamilton is a very significant part of that.

 

[Guttersniped]

Problem solved

faster winger for Jack, 3C. Palat out. Under cap. Up the offer if necessary or route casey to a different team for a piece that better suits LAs needs

View attachment 946471

LA (stupidly) moved Faber because they had Spence and Clarke at RHD. They aren’t adding another young RHD to the mix.

There’s zero chance they trade this guy at 29 year old:


For this guy at 34 years old:


Zero reason for them to be interested in this swap or have any desire to move Foegele.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

We also have the best power play in the NHL and Hamilton is a very significant part of that.

The other guy that will make near 9 million dollars next season can handle it. See the leap he took defensively from year 1 to year 2? I’m not putting anything out reach for him.

 

[dgibb10]

Forget Kovacevic, I don’t see where the money for Luke is with Dougie here. I get wanting to keep Dougie but that means Luke gets a bridge deal.

Hamilton (9m) + Pesce (5.5m) + Dillon (4m) + Siegenthaler (3.4m) = 21.9m

Luke on a long term deal puts that at +30m for 5 defensemen. 30m is ~32% of 92.5m.

It’s just too much to spend on defense. Honestly Fitz overspending on the Dillon contract is part of the part but we’re stuck with it now.

There is no rule defining how much you can spend on each position.

Colorado had a 27 million dcore for their 6 when they won out of 83.5 mill, 32.5%. out of a 94 mill cap we could be at 34.4 mill or 36.5% (luke and kovacevic combined at 12.5 mill).

LA (stupidly) moved Faber because they had Spence and Clarke at RHD. They aren’t adding another young RHD to the mix.

There’s zero chance they trade this guy at 29 year old:
View attachment 946479

For this guy at 34 years old:
View attachment 946482

Zero reason for them to be interested in this swap or have any desire to move Foegele.

Rob Blake, noted great GM.

 

[Smitty426]

The other guy that will make near 9 million dollars next season can handle it. See the leap he took defensively from year 1 to year 2? I’m not putting anything out reach for him.

He doesn't have the shot.

 

[dgibb10]

The other guy that will make near 9 million dollars next season can handle it. See the leap he took defensively from year 1 to year 2? I’m not putting anything out reach for him.

You realistically have to redesign how your power play looks to make that switch.

Teams will defend it differently.

You've now got 4 lefties and 1 righty (Noesen in a netfront role). You don't have a major shooting threat beyond maybe bratt, who you likely move into more of a sniper spot limiting his ability to run it the way he does now.

Realistically you'd want to move hischier off PP1 to be replaced with a right handed sniper who wins faceoffs. Someone like Stamkos.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

He doesn't have the shot.

He can do plenty of other stuff offensively. Far more dynamic player.

 

[dgibb10]

I just don’t know how it’s possible to watch the games and think one of these guys is someone we really need to retain (at 9 million dollars) and one is to be discarded.

We’re playing some of the best defense the team has in decades and Kovacevic is a very significant part of that. And he doesn’t have any of the drawbacks in front of the net that Marino had that cut into his effectiveness. He won’t stop being large and in charge.

If we’re at the end of the season and he’s still the best defensive dman in the NHL, this can’t even be a consideration. You bring the player back.

Dougie this year: elite offensive engine as per usual, key piece of the best PP in hockey. This is something he has helped to do his entire career.

Kovacevic hasn't done this beyond 30 games. What happens if he falls off when it isn't a contract year?

He can do plenty of other stuff offensively. Far more dynamic player.

the power play needs shooting threats.

 

[dgibb10]

Dmen sorted by PP impact over the last 3 years. Dougie laps the f***ing field

It's not a guy you can just plug and play

Like in terms of guys you'd slot in there for that impact and fit on OUR PP, with Jack and Bratt on it. Bouchard. that's about it.

 

[NJDevs26]

Trading both Dougie and Nemec is only something you could get away with in NHL25 and not any serious real life discussion

 

[dgibb10]

He can do plenty of other stuff offensively. Far more dynamic player.

Which makes him the perfect piece to run our SECOND unit where things run through him+timo and he is able to be the focal point.

 

[Guttersniped]

There is no rule defining how much you can spend on each position.

Colorado had a 27 million dcore for their 6 when they won out of 83.5 mill, 32.5%. out of a 94 mill cap we could be at 34.4 mill or 36.5% (luke and kovacevic combined at 12.5 mill).

Salary cap allocation is a thing and it involves estimating how much you roughly should spend on each position. You can google it, I didn’t invent it myself.

Teams like San Jose and pre-Zito Panthers are examples of teams that were sunk by spending too much on defense. You just don’t see successful teams spending +35% on defense.

32% is not 36.5%
32% of 92.5m is 29.5m
36.5% of 92.5m is 33.76m
4.26m is quite a bit considering that could pay for several forwards.
And 32% is a bit too much for defense.

I’ve said my points:
1) Good f***ing luck moving Palat.
2) Hamilton’s contract, along with the 4 other defensemen’s deals, make a long term deal for Luke difficult. I definitely don’t see how keep Kovacevic on top of that.

Your proposals either have a very thin forward core, or an unlikely fantasy trade, or both. Not loving a thin forward core and not optimistic about the fantasy trades.

But this is Fitz’s problem, not mine. I don’t know what solution he’ll come up with but that’s his job.

Presumably he had plan when he gave out the UFA deals this off-season and I doubt that plan involved counting on a miracle Palat trade.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Dougie this year: elite offensive engine as per usual, key piece of the best PP in hockey. This is something he has helped to do his entire career.

Kovacevic hasn't done this beyond 30 games. What happens if he falls off when it isn't a contract year?

…not changing my mind on this one inch. It isn’t a close call.

Oh the horror of Kovacevic “falls off” (not exactly sure what that means given what he does). We’ll only have Simon Nemec and Seamus Casey in the pipe line behind Brett Pesce.