Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part II

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Also, the team doesn't even need help at F! They're the 6th best team at 5 on 5 offensively!

Yeah, I'd like to score more, that's always better, but the idea that we're floundering over her on offense has kinda taken on a life of its own. Not warranted!

Palat further down the lineup is a positive, he's having a good streak but he was beyond miserable ass cheeks before the 2 goals he scored the last week. Call a spade a spade.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Palat further down the lineup is a positive, he's having a good streak but he was beyond miserable ass cheeks before the 2 goals he scored the last week. Call a spade a spade

Great, then trade the guy who sucks, not the guy who's good

 

[Incharge1976]

How many star forwards do we need? We have four more or less, no team has six stars on their top two lines.

It's not about star forwards. It's about finding someone for Jack and Bratt and moving Palat off that line. It's about pushing people down the pipe because our line compositions are not championship caliber if we are being honest.

 

[MasterofGrond]

I would rather attach value to Palat than get value for Dougie.

 

[New Jerseys Devil]

I would rather attach value to Palat than get value for Dougie.

Think theres any chance they try to move Palat this season?

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

"If they get better on the forward side with a legit winger for Bratt/Jack then you can ask your dmen to do less from the back end offensively"

I do not believe this is a good idea.

Toffoli, Meier, Haula, Palat, Cotter, Mercer, Yegor, Tatar, even Hischier.

So many different combinations of guys across various talent levels and archetypes have been tried alongside the Bratt-Hughes duo.

It really hasn't had any meaningful impact on their production or level of. And tbh, Jack Bratt Palat have had a 58% expected goals share together in their 3 years, and outscored the opposition 24-14. How much better do you want? How much better do you expect them to get with a 3rd guy, and who is this guy?

You know who has had a big impact on how many pucks they put home? DOUGIE

The devils score an utterly ridiculous (over the last 3 years) 4.5 goals/60 5v5 with Jack Bratt and Dougie on the ice.
With just Jack and Bratt, that number drops to 2.81.

Palat looked like cooked goods before this recent stretch like I said above. Banking on 14M between those two guys for the next couple of years is beyond batshit dumb when you can get younger and way better. Once again, you're not getting rid of Hamliton just to get rid of him. You're getting rid of him because of the cheaper alternatives you have on that side while also addressing the issues of his point totals on the forward side of the puck.

 

[dgibb10]

Great, then trade the guy who sucks, not the guy who's good

Guys, trust me we just need ONE more guy to try with Jack and Bratt. This one will DEFINITELY lead to better results than them with Palat i promise.

99% percent of gamblers quite right before they find the winger who meaningfully improves Jack-Bratt's results compared to Palat

 

[MasterofGrond]

Think theres any chance they try to move Palat this season?

During the year? No chance. In the offseason? I'd be shocked if Fitz didn't ask around.

 

[dgibb10]

It's not about star forwards. It's about finding someone for Jack and Bratt and moving Palat off that line. It's about pushing people down the pipe because our line compositions are not championship caliber if we are being honest.

Nico.

Mercer.

Yegor.

Toffoli.

Haula.

Meier.

Cotter.

How many do we have to try before we realize the third guy on that line doesn't make that much of a difference.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Great, then trade the guy who sucks, not the guy who's good

Sure, trade both, that's actually my ideal scenario and then use that money elsewhere for big time upgrades but I don't know why trading Hamliton is such a big threat to this team. They have the RHD set for the next 3-4 years if they re-sign Kovacevic. You can't just keep dumping money on the blue line and then just hope Gritsyuk and Hammenaho become the wingers we expect them to. You need some kinda of insurance on the forward side. This board complains when we get shutout but when you trade offer a long term solution to being a way more complete team, it's shut down lol

 

[dgibb10]

You missed my the point. First, when bringing in the PP, he has double the O-zone starts. I'm not even complaining about that at all. I EXPECT it given his game and I want the team to maximize it.

But none of the above takes away from the fact that he makes most of his hay on the PP (xGF / 60) and he is 13th worst in the league in every other situation while being sheltered. 2 years ago when he was 0.06 you could live with it given his production, but $9M is not worth 10 to 15 goals on the PP while having one of the worst D in the league when not in that situation.

That's not a knock on him. He is slowing down. Doesn't mean the team needs to keep him around for a few more goals on the PP or out of some loyalty or whatever. You move on from people before they completely break down, especially when that player is making $9M and you have needs in other areas.

Good thing we were looking at his 5v5 metrics.

"His 5v5 metrics are quality"

"BUT HE GETS LOTS OF OZONE STARTS MAKING THEM BETTER"

"His deployment is normal 5v5"

"BUT HE GETS LOTS OF PP TIME"

 

[Forge]

Palat feels like a buyout or maybe a swap of bad contracts. Its a 10 team trade list (not a 10 team no trade list), so he can navigate that to make it all but a full NTC based on cap space next year, I would imagine.

So then you're kind of just hoping that someone is on his trade list who has an equally meh contract to take back.

 

[NJDevs26]

Also, the team doesn't even need help at F! They're the 6th best team at 5 on 5 offensively!

Yeah, I'd like to score more, that's always better, but the idea that we're floundering over her on offense has kinda taken on a life of its own. Not warranted!

They need two or three more good role players probably, it doesn't make trading Dougie or one of our young defensemen really a fit to 'fill one need with another surplus'. I know theoretically you could do it by saving the cap space on Dougie and overpaying a couple other guys up front but that doesn't necessarily make you better, you're just robbing Peter to pay Paul. Not to mention some of the cap space we're saving on Dougie, many people want to use a chunk of it on Kovacevic anyway.

 

[dgibb10]

Palat feels like a buyout or maybe a swap of bad contracts. Its a 10 team trade list (not a 10 team no trade list), so he can navigate that to make it all but a full NTC based on cap space next year, I would imagine.

So then you're kind of just hoping that someone is on his trade list who has an equally meh contract to take back.

in terms of getting a 3C if you can't get out of the contract of palat grab a Copp.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Nico.

Mercer.

Yegor.

Toffoli.

Haula.

Meier.

Cotter.

How many do we have to try before we realize the third guy on that line doesn't make that much of a difference.

Half of those guys blow on that list, big time upgrade means a guy who legit can score 40-45 with them. Timo was never going to work with Jack developing a shot, it's been overstated multiple times before.

 

[Forge]

in terms of getting a 3C if you can't get out of the contract of palat grab a Copp.

Copp was a guy I was thinking of, tbh.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

in terms of getting a 3C if you can't get out of the contract of palat grab a Copp.

Andrew Copp is dogshit

 

[dgibb10]

Sure, trade both, that's actually my ideal scenario and then use that money elsewhere for big time upgrades but I don't know why trading Hamliton is such a big threat to this team. They have the RHD set for the next 3-4 years if they re-sign Kovacevic. You can't just keep dumping money on the blue line and then just hope Gritsyuk and Hammenaho become the wingers we expect them to. You need some kinda of insurance on the forward side. This board complains when we get shutout but when you trade offer a long term solution to being a way more complete team, it's shut down lol

Dougie Hamilton does significantly more for team offense 5v5 than adding a 3rd winger to jack and bratts line.

Andrew Copp is dogshit

Yes, the point is bad contract for bad contract.

 

[NJDevs26]

During the year? No chance. In the offseason? I'd be shocked if Fitz didn't ask around.

I dunno...the more guys like Nico and Bratt swear by him, the more I'm convinced the whole 'locker room leadership' meme is going to keep him around another year if he continues to show any pulse at all on the ice the way he has the last couple weeks or so.

 

[New Jerseys Devil]

During the year? No chance. In the offseason? I'd be shocked if Fitz didn't ask around.

It wouldnt be a simple fix like attach a pick and send him to a low cap team? Maybe retain a quarter of the deal?

 

[dgibb10]

Half of those guys blow on that list, big time upgrade means a guy who legit can score 40-45 with them. Timo was never going to work with Jack developing a shot, it's been overstated multiple times before.

What are you paying for that is more than this?

We tried toffoli, who had 70 points and 30+ goals in calgary.

We have played them with Nico at times to try it, who is a top tier C.

We tried them with a superstar power forward in Meier.

We tried them with a guy who also had top 6 forward talent level in Yegor

We gave them a C type guy in Haula.


None of them did any better than Palat.

Who is this guy who's going to change things and all of a sudden make them meaningfully better?

 

[MasterofGrond]

I would 100% try Gritsyuk there before trying to rectify the issue externally. There are always wingers available in the NHL, the team can be flexible and make upgrades in-season next year.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Not much more can be said, but I’ll be getting my shocked face ready for when our 5 on 5 defense and penalty kill falls off a cliff when we let Kovacevic go in favor of 32 year old Dougie Hamilton — and are unable to add anything else because Luke Hughes will make 9 million dollars.

 

[NJDevs26]

Half of those guys blow on that list, big time upgrade means a guy who legit can score 40-45 with them. Timo was never going to work with Jack developing a shot, it's been overstated multiple times before.

By that standard how is anyone who can 'score 40-45' going to work with Jack and Bratt already dominating puck possession and scoring chances? You only have one puck, they can't all literally score goals at the same time.

 

[NjDevsRR]

but I’ll be getting my Dano face ready

Fixed