Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[Camille the Eel]

I dont think he will be Hyman oilers version for us but I would make a bet with him on the roster. Not a big fan but for reasonable price i have a feeling he can do more here.

The price will not be reasonable. Plus the guy is a pain in the ass with management and the locker room. But as to this argument I say nothing more after this, save remember this if we do get him, file for future “I told you so’s.”

The money will be better spent elsewhere. We need a number of depth players, don’t spend it all in one place. I’ve watched Debrusk for too many years already.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

The price will not be reasonable. Plus the guy is a pain in the ass with management and the locker room. But as to this argument I say nothing more after this, save remember this if we do get him, file for future “I told you so’s.”

The money will be better spent elsewhere. We need a number of depth players, don’t spend it all in one place. I’ve watched Debrusk for too many years already.

respectfully, how the f*** do you know?

we have $20 million of cap space with only one real player to re-sign. Giving Debrusk $5-6 million/year is not "spending it all in one place"

 

[Guadana]

We need centers.

The price will not be reasonable. Plus the guy is a pain in the ass with management and the locker room. But as to this argument I say nothing more after this, save remember this if we do get him, file for future “I told you so’s.”

The money will be better spent elsewhere. We need a number of depth players, don’t spend it all in one place. I’ve watched Debrusk for too many years already.

We dont know about price. And cap will goes up.
I dont know about how pain in the vss this fuys is. May be long term deal will make him more happy. A lot of people said some bad things about Bratt because he didnt want long term. Overall we can live with it.
So if price is 5/5-6 mil for physical player who is playing on the 40-50 points level with Boston centers - I dont see problems. He is quite young.

So overall he isnt my prime candidate. I want third line center, I want second pair defenseman, I want physical defensive forward for bottom like Trenin. I just dont know about his locker room problems and I would listen more why we should not sign him.

 

[devilsblood]

this is totally untrue lol I know a few Boston fans and they love the guy. He is a 40-50 point physical player that performs in the playoffs. No one is expecting a 50 goal scorer here.

We already have the top end forwards. We just need another mid-level forward or two, which is exactly what he is.

And it's a very goal heavy split.

His 49 5v5 goals over the last 3 years would rank 4th on NJ, ahead of Nico (behind Hughes Bratt and one behind Mercer)

His 71 total goals would also rank 4th on NJ, ahead of Mercer (behind Hughes Bratt Nico)

Good shot rate too, consistently around 9 per 60.

Tied for 2nd on Boston over the last 3 years in playoff goals as well. One behind Pasta. Though that is helped along by a 50% pp shooting percentage which accounts for 5 pp goals. Still, hes' been a good playoff performer.

 

[britdevil]

DeBrusk?

Sure why not? We need quality depth and he would be that.

 

[devilsblood]

So overall he isnt my prime candidate. I want third line center, I want second pair defenseman, I want physical defensive forward for bottom like Trenin. I just dont know about his locker room problems and I would listen more why we should not sign him.

I also want a 2nd pair d-man, but I can live with Sieg's if need be (also think if we acquire a 2nd pair d-man, we shed Sieg's contract in the process thus money saved). I'd have to see who the add is and weigh that against acquiring a guy like Debrusk.

3rd line center holds higher priority, but yeah, we can add both. (I don't completely rule out, nor hate, Haula as 3rd center next year).

4th liners should be pretty cheap.

 

[Davegarri]

The reason I like DeBrusk is he's a very strong playoff player. He brings elements we don't really have a lot of and he could be really valuable for us there. I'm all for signing him

 

[theoptimist]

View attachment 883378

Can't afford a 2/3C (Cirelli, Stephenson, etc.) and $6M winger if we're looking to find top-4 LHD. We can find cheaper alternatives that bring similar game style to DeBrusk. Noesen, at times, played in Canes top-6. A cheaper alternative (also like Ardvisson) would give breathing room for Mercer to develop full time into top-6 player.

I would also give Palat every opportunity in the top-6 to make use of his skill (and $6M contract).

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Can't afford a 2/3C (Cirelli, Stephenson, etc.) and $6M winger if we're looking to find top-4 LHD. We can find cheaper alternatives that bring similar game style to DeBrusk. Noesen, at times, played in Canes top-6. A cheaper alternative (also like Ardvisson) would give breathing room for Mercer to develop full time into top-6 player.

I would also give Palat every opportunity in the top-6 to make use of his skill (and $6M contract).

Bringing Noesen back as a better player than he was would be funny.

I think Mercer should get the opportunity to be part of the top 6 and breakout. Palat doesn’t need to be there but without bringing someone else in he probably is. His contract doesn’t matter to that decision.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Can't afford a 2/3C (Cirelli, Stephenson, etc.) and $6M winger if we're looking to find top-4 LHD. We can find cheaper alternatives that bring similar game style to DeBrusk. Noesen, at times, played in Canes top-6. A cheaper alternative (also like Ardvisson) would give breathing room for Mercer to develop full time into top-6 player.

I would also give Palat every opportunity in the top-6 to make use of his skill (and $6M contract).

if the choice is between Debrusk and Stephenson I choose Debrusk 1000000000000% of the time. He is simply a better player and is 3 years younger.

I like Cirelli, what assets are you giving up to get him? He is also the same type of player production wise that Debrusk is. In fact, Debrusk has like 15 more points over the last 3 years.

 

[theoptimist]

if the choice is between Debrusk and Stephenson I choose Debrusk 1000000000000% of the time. He is simply a better player and is 3 years younger.

I like Cirelli, what assets are you giving up to get him? He is also the same type of player production wise that Debrusk is. In fact, Debrusk has like 15 more points over the last 3 years.

I'm not worried about age as much. I can't remember how many 3/4 year contracts we've signed that finished the term with us. I expect the backend years to be paid out by another team. However, Hamilton might be the exception depending on how successful we are in the playoffs. Haula could be that as well (but Haula was more in response to our upward trend, especially considering 22-23).

I like DeBrusk, but I'm thinking about the contract, and not really prioritizing his age (although it is a positive). Would you have brought back Toffoli? (He's 32 and would likely have accepted 4 years with us).

For Cirelli, I'd give up #10.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

no I absolutely would not bring back Toffoli, he can't skate

 

[theoptimist]

Bringing Noesen back as a better player than he was would be funny.

I think Mercer should get the opportunity to be part of the top 6 and breakout. Palat doesn’t need to be there but without bringing someone else in he probably is. His contract doesn’t matter to that decision.

I look at the contract and cringe. Very few examples league wide in which a player is paid $6M to play exclusively on the team's "third line" (and not PP1). Jamie Benn is one, but maybe a few others. $6M on this team (considering a need for top-6 winger) is why I will try him there. I'd like Mercer in the top-6 too, but he doesn't fit if Meier and Bratt are RWs.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

you don't build your lines based on how much a player makes, that is ridiculous

Also, there is seemingly no real difference between 2nd line minutes and 3rd line minutes in the NHL anymore.

 

[devilsblood]

if the choice is between Debrusk and Stephenson I choose Debrusk 1000000000000% of the time. He is simply a better player and is 3 years younger.

I like Cirelli, what assets are you giving up to get him? He is also the same type of player production wise that Debrusk is. In fact, Debrusk has like 15 more points over the last 3 years.

Is he? Stephenson's stats tailed off this year, but his point total this year is still better then anything Debrusk has ever posted. And the previous 2 seasons Stephenson was 60+ points. He actually leads Vegas the past 3 years in 5v5 points with 113. . And had a huge playoffs last year helping Vegas win the cup.
And Stephenson is a center.

Debrusk is younger, and more goal heavy, but not sure he's a better player.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Is he? Stephenson's stats tailed off this year, but his point total this year is still better then anything Debrusk has ever posted. And the previous 2 seasons Stephenson was 60+ points. He actually leads Vegas the past 3 years in 5v5 points with 113. . And had a huge playoffs last year helping Vegas win the cup.
And Stephenson is a center.

Debrusk is younger, and more goal heavy, but not sure he's a better player.

Over the last 3 years, better CF%, better xG% (by far), better HDCF% (by far)

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[devilsblood]

Over the last 3 years:
View attachment 883403
View attachment 883404

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Meh, on ice is skewed by the team. Carolina is all over the leader board. Boston probably is too. I bet Zacha grades out quite well.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

skewed by team? lol Vegas has been one of the best teams in the league over the past 3 years. Come on now.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I look at the contract and cringe. Very few examples league wide in which a player is paid $6M to play exclusively on the team's "third line" (and not PP1). Jamie Benn is one, but maybe a few others. $6M on this team (considering a need for top-6 winger) is why I will try him there. I'd like Mercer in the top-6 too, but he doesn't fit if Meier and Bratt are RWs.

First, Benn put up 60 points this year and 78 with 33 goals last year so I’m not sure him playing on the 3rd line matters.

Again, in no world should the amount he’s making have even the slightest impact on where in the lineup he plays. Zero. It’s a sunk cost, you’re paying him 6M a year no matter what. If he’s only a 4th line calibre player that’s where he should play because it’s what’s best for the team.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

The difference between our 3rd highest ATOI forward at 5 on 5 and our 9th highest ATOI forward at 5 on 5 was 37 seconds per game

Again, we really should talk about 'top 9' and 4th line when speaking about forwards.

 

[Oneiro]

Bratt can be a LW. He clearly doesn’t need any specific spot to be successful. Bratt-Hischier-Meier worked and shouldn’t need a tweak unless Jack is really hurting for linemates. Really a lot of issues can be solved if Mercer steps up.

I’m not a huge fan of the options. I get that Debrusk has solid playoff numbers but I view him as a passenger who’s not particularly tough to play against despite his size. But I could easily see him becoming more than he is like Hyman. I get why people are into the idea. Similarly, Stephenson seems like another Palat deal.

For UFA, I wouldn’t mind if it shook out as Carrier, Dillon and Rico and then look for a bigger trade on the wing. You know what you’re getting from all those guys. But I just think the potential to make a mistake is very high this summer. Let alone multiple errors.

 

[devilsblood]

skewed by team? lol Vegas has been one of the best teams in the league over the past 3 years. Come on now.

And Stephenson has led Vegas in points the last 3 years.

As a center.

If we go strictly on ice over the last 3 years, in terms of CF%, you have Bergeron at the top, then the next 8 guys are from Carolina. 3 of the next 5 are also Carolina. 14 of the top 21 are Carolina. All before we get to McDavid.

Debrusk's xGF is better then any Devil over the last 3 years.

Not saying it's not relevant, but we need a better statistical analysis then just posting Stephensons on ice vs Debrusk's head to head. Especially since one is a center while the other a winger.

Edit: Oh yeah, LOL.

 

[Camille the Eel]

respectfully, how the f*** do you know?

we have $20 million of cap space with only one real player to re-sign. Giving Debrusk $5-6 million/year is not "spending it all in one place"

View attachment 883378


We dont know about price. And cap will goes up.
I dont know about how pain in the vss this fuys is. May be long term deal will make him more happy. A lot of people said some bad things about Bratt because he didnt want long term. Overall we can live with it.
So if price is 5/5-6 mil for physical player who is playing on the 40-50 points level with Boston centers - I dont see problems. He is quite young.

So overall he isnt my prime candidate. I want third line center, I want second pair defenseman, I want physical defensive forward for bottom like Trenin. I just dont know about his locker room problems and I would listen more why we should not sign him.

Pain in the ass with management is well documented from when he demanded a trade maybe three years back and then sat in the press box (this part I remember less, but he was sat) for a spell. Admittedly this can also have been managements fault.

In the dressing room, I believe he has that reputation. But I have no special inside knowledge. Our GM and staff are however well placed to know whether this is warranted or not. The NHL is a fishbowl and we have a few people too who’ve passed through that dressing room.

Personally, my opinion only and everyone here is entitled to theirs of course, I think he’s highly over rated at this point. Watching the Bruins a great deal and over years, he simply disappears for games on end. Has much less impact than expected. I think they are very disappointed in the pick. But that was a horrible draft for them, where they had three relatively high first rounders, all of which misfired to some extent. Lauzon and another D, maybe ? And Debrusk as the third is maybe scape goated over that too.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Again, we have literally no idea how any player is in the locker room. No one at all should be speculating about that nonsense.

and I'm not sure what his draft slot has anything to do with his play 9 years into his career.

 

[devilsblood]

The difference between our 3rd highest ATOI forward at 5 on 5 and our 9th highest ATOI forward at 5 on 5 was 37 seconds per game

View attachment 883409

Again, we really should talk about 'top 9' and 4th line when speaking about forwards.

For our team at least, the difference between top 6, and the 3rd line, is not so much toi, but quality of team mates. I expect that is pretty common around the league as well.

I do think the Devils have wanted to become more of a top 9 team, Fitz said as much last offseason, but we haven't been able to put together a consistent 3rd line(last year obviously be affected by injuries).

And this could be an argument for putting Palat, or Stephenson, or Debrusk on the 3rd line. Last year we tried Meier a bunch on that 3rd line, but again, even though he was playing, he was banged up. Could we see Meier there again in upcoming season, I imagine this board would be unsettled if we do.