Devils 2021 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXVII

[beekay414]

You spelt Alexander Holtz wrong

Garland with Nico would be a better pairing IMO. Nico and Garland could not only both get dirty work done but the cycling and deceptive movement would be enough to open any third linemate up (like Bratt) or if Bratt is commanding the puck it allows Nico to get open for a shot as hes got a nice one, with Garland playing more of a net presence (though you could argue Nico's tipping ability is one of his strongest individual talents)

Holtz would be suited quite well with Nico and Jesper.

Jack works well with a puck retriever and a shooter. Foote is the shooter of the group and Garland is the tasmanian devil that gets to the pucks. On the Nico line, Jesper drives the play, Nico is the puck retriever and Holtz is the bomber. I just think they blend together better. Unless we have another LW that's a puck retriever that's not Janne Kuokkanen just lying around.

Would allow us to let Dawson Mercer destroy teams on the 3rd line, either as Boqvist's RW or the man on the dot. Even if we didn't get Garland, I'd rather have Mercer with Jack than Holtz. I think Foote can provide, on that line, the same type of offensive production that Holtz could.

 

[beekay414]

Well really he's like 5'6 mayyybe 5'7 but yea otherwise agreed haha

He's a bulldog, baby. Height don't matter. It's the bite that comes with it.

 

[TheDuke93]

I think it is a good sign he looks like a photoshopped version of Nico and Jack smashed together.

f*** man....I won't be able to un see it.

 

[TheDuke93]

Holtz would be suited quite well with Nico and Jesper.

Jack works well with a puck retriever and a shooter. Foote is the shooter of the group and Garland is the tasmanian devil that gets to the pucks. On the Nico line, Jesper drives the play, Nico is the puck retriever and Holtz is the bomber. I just think they blend together better. Unless we have another LW that's a puck retriever that's not Janne Kuokkanen just lying around.

Would allow us to let Dawson Mercer destroy teams on the 3rd line, either as Boqvist's RW or the man on the dot. Even if we didn't get Garland, I'd rather have Mercer with Jack than Holtz. I think Foote can provide, on that line, the same type of offensive production that Holtz could.

I also wouldn't be shocked to see Bratt playing LW in the future.

 

[Raian]

Holtz would be suited quite well with Nico and Jesper.

Jack works well with a puck retriever and a shooter. Foote is the shooter of the group and Garland is the tasmanian devil that gets to the pucks. On the Nico line, Jesper drives the play, Nico is the puck retriever and Holtz is the bomber. I just think they blend together better. Unless we have another LW that's a puck retriever that's not Janne Kuokkanen just lying around.

Would allow us to let Dawson Mercer destroy teams on the 3rd line, either as Boqvist's RW or the man on the dot. Even if we didn't get Garland, I'd rather have Mercer with Jack than Holtz. I think Foote can provide, on that line, the same type of offensive production that Holtz could.

Holtz and Jack is a match made in heaven IMO, Holtz is a guy who seeks for open space and separates well from defenders, and Jack is great at teeing guys up for one timers or quick shots and a lot of guys dont get Them
Off quick enough; Alex's shot is special and I want to pair that with special playmaking talent in Jack

Nico and Jesper would best be paired with, in a perfect world, an Alexander Tuch/Radulov type player IMO. So maybe we should try Foote with them?

im not sure Foote can keep up with or process the game as quickly as Jack; I think those are two of his downfalls to possibly not being a top-6 player

edit: honestly id just put Zacha back with Nico and Jesper, offwing to shoot more

 

[beekay414]

I also wouldn't be shocked to see Bratt playing LW in the future.

I fully expect it unless we keep Zacha around and run with the Zacha-Hischier-Bratt line as our top or 2nd line. Ideally, for me, and I'm probably wrong here, this is what I'd want our lines to look like. We're definitely going to consolidate our prospect depth sooner rather than later though because I'm leaving out quite a few guys here...

Foote-Hughes-Mercer
Bratt-Hischier-Holtz
Kuokkanen-Boqvist-Sharangovich
Wood-McLeod-Bastian

That leaves out Zacha, Thompson, Clarke...

Foote-Hughes-Garland (trade, obvs)
Bratt-Hischier-Holtz
Zacha-Mercer-Sharangovich
Wood-McLeod-Bastian

That leaves out Boqvist, Kuokkanen, Thompson AND Clarke.

Obviously just spit-balling with all of this but we're definitely going to cut down on guys soon. Could take several guys out of those projections and put any one of the others left out if you wish. Just pointing it out.

 

[TheDuke93]

Holtz and Jack is a match made in heaven IMO, Holtz is a guy who seeks for open space and separates well from defenders, and Jack is great at teeing guys up for one timers or quick shots and a lot of guys dont get Them
Off quick enough; Alex's shot is special and I want to pair that with special playmaking talent in Jack

Nico and Jesper would best be paired with, in a perfect world, an Alexander Tuch/Radulov type player IMO. So maybe we should try Foote with them?

im not sure Foote can keep up with or process the game as quickly as Jack; I think those are two of his downfalls to possibly not being a top-6 player

Agree with the first part but I think Foote can keep up with play and he certainly see's the ice well or he would have never gotten that puck to Merkley while being covered by 4 guys and under pressure. While I hate this term, Holtz has a lot more grit then people give him credit for. He routinely is around the net and whiling to battle for positioning. He certainly is a sniper but too many people portray him simply as a perimeter sniper.

 

[TheDuke93]

I fully expect it unless we keep Zacha around and run with the Zacha-Hischier-Bratt line as our top or 2nd line. Ideally, for me, and I'm probably wrong here, this is what I'd want our lines to look like. We're definitely going to consolidate our prospect depth sooner rather than later though because I'm leaving out quite a few guys here...

Foote-Hughes-Mercer
Bratt-Hischier-Holtz
Kuokkanen-Boqvist-Sharangovich
Wood-McLeod-Bastian

That leaves out Zacha, Thompson, Clarke...

Foote-Hughes-Garland (trade, obvs)
Bratt-Hischier-Holtz
Zacha-Mercer-Sharangovich
Wood-McLeod-Bastian

That leaves out Boqvist, Kuokkanen, Thompson AND Clarke.

Obviously just spit-balling with all of this but we're definitely going to cut down on guys soon. Could take several guys out of those projections and put any one of the others left out if you wish. Just pointing it out.

I think the first is a way more likely scenario with Zacha being packaged for some defensive help on the right side.

 

[beekay414]

Holtz and Jack is a match made in heaven IMO, Holtz is a guy who seeks for open space and separates well from defenders, and Jack is great at teeing guys up for one timers or quick shots and a lot of guys dont get Them
Off quick enough; Alex's shot is special and I want to pair that with special playmaking talent in Jack

Nico and Jesper would best be paired with, in a perfect world, an Alexander Tuch/Radulov type player IMO. So maybe we should try Foote with them?

im not sure Foote can keep up with or process the game as quickly as Jack; I think those are two of his downfalls to possibly not being a top-6 player

edit: honestly id just put Zacha back with Nico and Jesper, offwing to shoot more

I just think, personnel wise (at the moment), we have better RW options for Jack than we do LW. There are several ways to go about it and that's what makes it fun. Could even see a Sharangovich-Hughes-Holtz line. I just think, ideally, Rango is a 3rd line stud for us rather than playing up the lineup.

Fitz has a lot to work with and I'm excited to see where we take it.

 

[beekay414]

I think the first is a way more likely scenario with Zacha being packaged for some defensive help on the right side.

It's gonna be fun when we see the final product, man. So much we can do and NOTHING is more important than flexibility IMO. Obviously you need talented players in order to pull it off but we're on the right track 100%.

 

[Lou is God]

I think I just saw the most perfect retort to a Rags fan in the Holtz's tweet:



I'm dying

 

[Raian]

Though not likely we dont add one outside the org top-9 forward between today and a few years from now, The future top-9 core looks great IMO

Jesper Bratt - Nico Hischier - Dawson Mercer
Pavel Zacha - Jack Hughes - Alexander Holtz
Janne Kuokkanen - Michael McLeod - Yegor Sharangovich

with lots of great talents left over to possibly steal a chance at a top-9 spot

 

[TheDuke93]

Though not likely we dont add one outside the org top-9 forward between today and a few years from now, The future top-9 core looks great IMO

Jesper Bratt - Nico Hischier - Dawson Mercer
Pavel Zacha - Jack Hughes - Alexander Holtz
Janne Kuokkanen - Michael McLeod - Yegor Sharangovich

with lots of great talents left over to possibly steal a chance at a top-9 spot

This is assuming everyone hits, lets hope that is the case!

 

[Lou is God]

Though not likely we dont add one outside the org top-9 forward between today and a few years from now, The future top-9 core looks great IMO

Jesper Bratt - Nico Hischier - Dawson Mercer
Pavel Zacha - Jack Hughes - Alexander Holtz
Janne Kuokkanen - Michael McLeod - Yegor Sharangovich

with lots of great talents left over to possibly steal a chance at a top-9 spot

Foote?

 

[Raian]

Foote?

I thought Foote in his draft year was more of a later 2nd round pick so I have him in the Boqvist/Clarke/etc category

 

[MartyOwns]

after the expansion draft, we may have to trade one of our forwards. there’s a lot of redundancy and a lot of talented healthy scratches in these lineups. if i had to bet on who gets dealt, i’d say wood is the best candidate

 

[billingtons ghost]

I just don't think a GM should Nickle and dime every single player yet alone one of the best and most important in franchise history.

I guess I don't understand how your process would work as GM. Just pay everyone what they want? Pay only a few players what they want?

The guy is famously straightforward, tough and fair. He assesses the situation and comes up with a number that right for the team. The agent does the same for the player. They negotiate. If things break down, they break down and then you go to arbitration, or you don't. I know that the business side is a shock to some players, but you can't claim to be fair and just exempt 'some' players from your process, else why not break the rules for the next guy (brodeur?)?

I mean, we got a ridiculously teamfriendly contract from Brodeur and others claiming the name on the front to be more important than the one on the back.

 

[Raian]

With Seattle taking the third spot right before the lottery, if the Devils arent the last or second to lasts team they get bumped back a spot and it improves their odds of bumping back again post-lottery

Ottawa and Buffalo have been winning more often than NJ and we play a lot of teams in a playoff race, so itll be hard fought wins when we get them.

I foresee us taking second place from Ottawa and Buffalo remaining last, though we ultimately could end up outside the top-3 in that case but only can drop to 4th

a 100% surefire top-4 picks ensures we get one of the defenseman or Beniers

I just cant root against my own team; though I root for wins and development, a loss at this time of the season hurts a lot less is all Ill say lol

 

[billingtons ghost]

That has literally nothing to do with their forward core though. All we hear about is "you can't win a cup with a top 6 of all small guys" meanwhile Tampa did that. They won because they were the most talented team and have one of the best goalies on the planet.

And they went out and got Coleman. And they went out and got Goodrow. And guys like Kucherov played with an edge that bordered upon 'dirty'. They won because they learned how to not be victims to teams like the BlueJackets whom they outskilled by a mile but got swept by... And learned how to initiate the gritty stuff instead of being pushed around.

 

[TheDuke93]

I guess I don't understand how your process would work as GM. Just pay everyone what they want? Pay only a few players what they want?

The guy is famously straightforward, tough and fair. He assesses the situation and comes up with a number that right for the team. The agent does the same for the player. They negotiate. If things break down, they break down and then you go to arbitration, or you don't. I know that the business side is a shock to some players, but you can't claim to be fair and just exempt 'some' players from your process, else why not break the rules for the next guy (brodeur?)?

I mean, we got a ridiculously teamfriendly contract from Brodeur and others claiming the name on the front to be more important than the one on the back.

I dont think he was fair to Nieds at all is my point and clearly imo burned a bridge. I don't think he learned anything at all from the many players that left, most likely because of arbitration, and ultimately began the downfall of the franchise.

 

[Clam Jensen]

I think I just saw the most perfect retort to a Rags fan in the Holtz's tweet:



I'm dying

The delusion of Rangers fans is unmatched.

 

[TheDuke93]

And they went out and got Coleman. And they went out and got Goodrow. And guys like Kucherov played with an edge that bordered upon 'dirty'. They won because they learned how to not be victims to teams like the BlueJackets whom they outskilled by a mile but got swept by... And learned how to initiate the gritty stuff instead of being pushed around.

Yeah see I think that is more so a mindset you learn as you get older not something you go out for. They didn't grab Coleman solely because he is gritty they got him because he is a damn good hockey player who thrives in all situations.

 

[Raian]

What are Jesper and Pavel's timelines for injury?

 

[billingtons ghost]

We lost Scott Niedermayer because Lou took him to an arbitration hearing rather than lock him up with a long term deal, a deal Scott wanted, when he was a year away from becoming a UFA. End of story. Niedermayer had been asking for 5 year/45m. (The article mentions Pronger getting 9.5m plus 500k signing bonus so Nieds’ ask wasn’t outrageous.)
...

The thing about arbitration hearings is that once a team takes a player to one they just don’t end up keeping him. It signaling a large divide between how much a team values a player vs how player sees his own value.

Finally, yeah, he took less money from the Ducks to play for them in 2005-06, but the amount he took from Anaheim, 4 years/27m, likely has symbolic meaning too.
/QUOTE]

I'm not going to refute what you wrote, because although true none of it hits the point. Niedermayer was a great player for us, but no way was he worth 9m to our team at that time, for a myriad of reasons. The pronger contract was absurd outlier, so that's a tough comparable.

Do you think Nieds was the difference between us winning a cup or not? Do you think Lou should cave for 9m? You are paying the GOAT goalie 4.25 at the time and will up him to 5+ the next year. You will later sign Elias to 6. Nieds asking for 9m was a ridiculous ask, and frankly he wasn't worth it to us. As a last piece to win a cup, maybe then.

So, what then? Don't go to arbitration and have him hold out all season? Cave at 8m so you need to up Marty and Elias at 7.5? What is your solution?

 

[TheDuke93]

What are Jesper and Pavel's timelines for injury?

They both traveled with the team to Pitt so I would expect them back at some point on this road trip.