Devils 2021 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXIX

[Triumph]

If they come out and just absolutely dominate right from the start of training camp, then fine, leave them up. That is something I am okay with, but I am not necessarily expecting that. If they show anything less, there is absolutely 0 harm in letting them play a year in the AHL. None. Getting kids acclimated to the pro game or getting another year developing in the pro game makes the transition into the NHL much easier. If they dominate in the AHL, let them dominate the AHL. Let them learn what they can and can't do in an environment that is much more forgiving than the NHL. The AHL is, at its core, a developmental league. I cannot think of a single instance where a player playing in the AHL in his D+2 or D+3 has ever harmed their development.

You said it yourself that you don't expect them to be very good in the NHL. In the AHL, these kids can iron out the wrinkles in their game that would get exposed if they were to step right into the NHL. I don't agree with the reasoning for wanting kids to be injury callups and be yo-yoed between leagues. That is something that, in my opinion, harms more than helps.

The AHL is a developmental league - for 3rd line players. The majority of top line guys in this league barely spend any time there at all. If talented young players show themselves as capable of playing in the NHL, or worthy of a chance at that league, it's incumbent on the team to give them a chance at it. And yes, that means being injury replacements, if those injuries are deemed to be long enough.

The reason you can't think of an instance of a player playing in the AHL harming their development is because whereas it's very easy to point to examples like Zacha of players who had lackluster rookie seasons and were overmatched, it's much more nebuluous to point to players whose team gave up on them or wrote them off.

 

[TheDuke93]

Lot of good posts on this thread today. I agree with much of the sentiment. I think next year is a development year, and Fitz's job is to bring in characters/stability to just let this team gel and get better. I think bo, maltsev, Merkley, kuokk are maybe not in the final picture but in reality they have each shown us alot, so they just need a couple of years to see what we've got.

We're definitely at least one big piece away, and if that's Hamilton .. great. It's all been said:. Sniper for jack, RHD, lhd and a legit 3rd line be it homegrown or otherwise.

I do think most of the 3rd line and LD will be home grown. Between Siegenthaler, Bahl, Vukojevic, Okhotiuk and Mukhamadullin I would be beyond shocked if we don't come away with at least 1 top 4 defender and one bottom pairing guy. I think Smith while sheltered has shown enough defensively to project him to comfortably be a solid two-way defender even if his offense is ahead of his defense. Walsh has shown plenty of offensive promise and while this season for the B-Devils has been a shit show I can't say he won't come around to be at least competent enough defensively to be a bottom pairing puck mover. There are still other defensive prospects I haven't named that can potentially show enough to make the NHL in some form.

I feel we can safely project Hischier, Hughes, Zacha and Bratt as players who will be in our top 6 baring any trades. I expect Holtz to be in the top 6 as well. I think Sharangovich and Kuokkanen have proven at minimum they belong in the top 9. Foote, Holtz and Mercer I also feel can safely be projected as top 9 forwards bare minimum. So in the next few season I highly suspect our top 9 baring no trades will be something along the lines of.

Zacha-Hischier-Bratt
Foote-Hughes-Holtz
Sharangovich-Mercer-Kuokkanen

I don't know how the org views mercer as far as RW vs C and if they would entertain moving him or anyone else around positionally for that matter. Obviously you have players coming and going because of contract reasons + the expansion draft. But we have a very strong 3 line consisting of.

Wood-McLeod-Bastian

Some players will leave the org for one reason or another + expected injuries but we also have a young prospect pool outside of those top guys. Boqvist, Maltsev, Studenic, Zetterlund, Thompson, Clarke, Talvitie, Gritsyuk, Baumgaurtner, Pakkila, Moynihan, Pasic, Pytlik. Those are 13 guys that play a variety of different styles and bring different elements to the lineup and I would be shocked if we didn't see at least a few of these guys slowly filter in as we inevitably lose current roster players. This obviously does not account for any future players.

All in all I personally feel as far as our team goes we have an incredibly solid foundation in place and just need to let the kids grow together. We can certainly look to bring in outside help but I don't think it is a big need outside of maybe a RD.

 

[TheDuke93]

If I could find the quote I would do it, but Marty commented during the offseason that the team was not planning on rushing prospects and that the team was putting more time into development plans since Fitz became GM. I really think that all the young players that started on opening night are better players today than they were on opening night - McLeod, Shara, Bas, Kuok, JBoq, and Smith and they were better off starting with the big club. Obviously JBoq should have been handled different last year and if someone wants to argue he should have gone down and played C in Bingo I will not argue it to hard.

Bo could only play in the NHL or SHL iirc.

 

[RememberTheName]

The AHL is a developmental league - for 3rd line players. The majority of top line guys in this league barely spend any time there at all. If talented young players show themselves as capable of playing in the NHL, or worthy of a chance at that league, it's incumbent on the team to give them a chance at it. And yes, that means being injury replacements, if those injuries are deemed to be long enough.

The reason you can't think of an instance of a player playing in the AHL harming their development is because whereas it's very easy to point to examples like Zacha of players who had lackluster rookie seasons and were overmatched, it's much more nebuluous to point to players whose team gave up on them or wrote them off.

I think this a fair point to make. But, there are a couple examples of players recently who spent a lot of time in their AHL club and then went in the next year and put up awesome numbers. For example, Josh Norris this year, is in his D+3 season and played last year in the AHL, where he absolutely dominated, putting up 61 in 56. This year, in the NHL, he has put up 32 in 51. Jason Robertson had 47 in 60 last year in the AHL, and then went on to have 40 in 46 this year. Martin Necas put up 52 in 64 in his D+2 in the AHL, and then 36 in 64 the next year in the NHL. Dylan Strome had 53 in 50 in his d+3 in the AHL, and then went and put up 51 in 56 in the NHL in the next year. Kyle Connor had 44 in 52 in his D+2 and then 57 in 76 the next year in the NHL.

I'd say all of these players are top 6. if not top line players in the NHL. They all took the route of dominating for a full year in the AHL before coming into the NHL, and it worked out pretty well for them.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

so uh, isnt PK still on the Covid list? He is posting videos of himself on his IG getting a pedicure with no mask on out in public....

bad look.

 

[Blackjack]

so uh, isnt PK still on the Covid list? He is posting videos of himself on his IG getting a pedicure with no mask on out in public....

bad look.

Maybe he's vaxxed? IDK. Are people scolding him in the comments?

 

[Emperoreddy]

so uh, isnt PK still on the Covid list? He is posting videos of himself on his IG getting a pedicure with no mask on out in public....

bad look.

He was taken off yesterday.

 

[Triumph]

I think this a fair point to make. But, there are a couple examples of players recently who spent a lot of time in their AHL club and then went in the next year and put up awesome numbers. For example, Josh Norris this year, is in his D+3 season and played last year in the AHL, where he absolutely dominated, putting up 61 in 56. This year, in the NHL, he has put up 32 in 51. Jason Robertson had 47 in 60 last year in the AHL, and then went on to have 40 in 46 this year. Martin Necas put up 52 in 64 in his D+2 in the AHL, and then 36 in 64 the next year in the NHL. Dylan Strome had 53 in 50 in his d+3 in the AHL, and then went and put up 51 in 56 in the NHL in the next year. Kyle Connor had 44 in 52 in his D+2 and then 57 in 76 the next year in the NHL.

I'd say all of these players are top 6. if not top line players in the NHL. They all took the route of dominating for a full year in the AHL before coming into the NHL, and it worked out pretty well for them.

Norris, Robertson, Necas, Strome, and Connor all played in the NHL the year before they had those breakout years. They weren't totally capriciously just held in the AHL for the entire season. Not one of those players followed your development path of being held down in the AHL, despite injuries or whatever else. Connor and Strome each played 20 NHL games, Necas played 7, Norris and Robertson played 3.

19 year olds in the AHL is fine - Holtz and Mercer staying down, if it makes sense, is good for their contracts, as I'm sure was a consideration with Martin Necas. But if Foote produces down there? He should be getting a chance here.

 

[TheDuke93]

Norris, Robertson, Necas, Strome, and Connor all played in the NHL the year before they had those breakout years. They weren't totally capriciously just held in the AHL for the entire season. Not one of those players followed your development path of being held down in the AHL, despite injuries or whatever else. Connor and Strome each played 20 NHL games, Necas played 7, Norris and Robertson played 3.

19 year olds in the AHL is fine - Holtz and Mercer staying down, if it makes sense, is good for their contracts, as I'm sure was a consideration with Martin Necas. But if Foote produces down there? He should be getting a chance here.

I don't think a player getting games before going to the AHL or vice versa makes a difference.

 

[Eggtimer]

Is it just me or are we going to have a log jam in the bottom 6 forward positions ? Seems like we have enough prospects that look like 3rd/ 4th liners to make up about 4 lines . It’s the top 6 forwards I am concerned about and may need one more winger .
So far looks like Top 6 consisting of Nico Hughes Bratt with bubble guys like Zacha Sharangovich ( Shara looking more and more like a legit top 6 talent ) . Have to have one of Holtz Mercer Foote hit as a top 6 player. Would be nice to have one top tier winger.Here’s hoping that we have one that’s going to be a stud.

 

[njdevil26]

Maybe he's vaxxed? IDK. Are people scolding him in the comments?

He’s not vaxxed... can’t get the vaccine until 90 days after your first negative test post COVID. Unless he was vaccinated before getting Covid.... in that case, still not a good look.

 

[RememberTheName]

Norris, Robertson, Necas, Strome, and Connor all played in the NHL the year before they had those breakout years. They weren't totally capriciously just held in the AHL for the entire season. Not one of those players followed your development path of being held down in the AHL, despite injuries or whatever else. Connor and Strome each played 20 NHL games, Necas played 7, Norris and Robertson played 3.

19 year olds in the AHL is fine - Holtz and Mercer staying down, if it makes sense, is good for their contracts, as I'm sure was a consideration with Martin Necas. But if Foote produces down there? He should be getting a chance here.

Okay. So they did get some games in the NHL. And every single one of these players didn't show anything to show that they could hack it in the NHL. That is why they were sent to the AHL.

I just don't see it necessary to bring them up for a couple of games and send them back down. Simple as that. I doubt their 3 game split or 20 games of putting up 5 points really helped all that much (Kyle Connor). I just think that it would be better for everybody for a guy, who will more than likely play in the AHL for the whole year, to start out the year in the AHL and finish out the year in the AHL where he is able to work on what he needs to work on, develop chemistry with linemates, and play in a league where the competition will be relatively consistent night in and night out. Bringing them up for three-game clips will not do anything to help them.

 

[glenwo2]

He’s not vaxxed... can’t get the vaccine until 90 days after your first negative test post COVID. Unless he was vaccinated before getting Covid.... in that case, still not a good look.

Like Eddy just stated, he was taken off the list yesterday so whatever.

I'm not concerned about what he does or doesn't do on his social media.

 

[njdevil26]

Like Eddy just stated, he was taken off the list yesterday so whatever.

I'm not concerned about what he does or doesn't do on his social media.

Eh you're right. I've always been a fan of PK anyway... One thing his social media presence has shown me is that he's real good with the youngsters on the team. It's good to have that considering our entire roster can still shop at GAP Kids.

 

[devilsblood]

Okay. So they did get some games in the NHL. And every single one of these players didn't show anything to show that they could hack it in the NHL. That is why they were sent to the AHL.

I just don't see it necessary to bring them up for a couple of games and send them back down. Simple as that. I doubt their 3 game split or 20 games of putting up 5 points really helped all that much (Kyle Connor). I just think that it would be better for everybody for a guy, who will more than likely play in the AHL for the whole year, to start out the year in the AHL and finish out the year in the AHL where he is able to work on what he needs to work on, develop chemistry with linemates, and play in a league where the competition will be relatively consistent night in and night out. Bringing them up for three-game clips will not do anything to help them.

I'm an advocate for the 3-5 game NHL cup of coffee for young guys. I see only positives.

I also think that if Foote, who was leading the A-Dev's in points before his callup this season, is leading the team in points again next year, then he should be in the NHL before the midway point. .

 

[devilsblood]

View attachment 428868
For the love of the Devils himself please f***ing leave Zacha as a winger. Excerpt from an article worth reading.
https://thehockeywriters.com/devils-flyers-series-sharangovich-blackwood/

Has Zacha played wing every time Nico has played this year? Don't remember if there was a game or two after Nico initially came back if they went Hughes Nico Zacha as the top 9 C's.

I think the organization may have been very willing to go the Zacha at wing route from the beginning of the year if not for the Nico injuries.

Question then becomes, moving fwd, if they would again move Zacha to center if there was a need, or are they at the point where they say, nope, Zacha is now officially a winger.

 

[RememberTheName]

I'm an advocate for the 3-5 game NHL cup of coffee for young guys. I see only positives.

I also think that if Foote, who was leading the A-Dev's in points before his callup this season, is leading the team in points again next year, then he should be in the NHL before the midway point. .

I think the Foote situation you mentioned is a situation I could get behind in terms of a callup for a permanent stay. He has been producing well this season and will have already had one AHL season under his belt before playing in the NHL, so if he shows he is too good, ala the guys I mentioned earlier in the thread around the NHL who performed similarly, then yea, I see no reason for him to not come to the NHL.

 

[TheDuke93]

Has Zacha played wing every time Nico has played this year? Don't remember if there was a game or two after Nico initially came back if they went Hughes Nico Zacha as the top 9 C's.

I think the organization may have been very willing to go the Zacha at wing route from the beginning of the year if not for the Nico injuries.

Question then becomes, moving fwd, if they would again move Zacha to center if there was a need, or are they at the point where they say, nope, Zacha is now officially a winger.

He was a winger right when Nico came back iirc.

 

[Based Anime Fan]

I think Kuokkanen has a long term role here, not on the top line of course.

Bastian is someone I think ends up washing out. Be tough kid, good motor, but not a lot of talent.

Hard to see him scoring enough to stay on a good NHL roster.

We could have said the same thing about Wood a few years ago.

 

[Billdo]

We could have said the same thing about Wood a few years ago.

Except Wood has speed and speed gives guys a longer leash it seems.

 

[TheDuke93]

We could have said the same thing about Wood a few years ago.

Well Wood you could 100% project to score enough goals to have a roster spot based off his speed alone. Let alone the fact that he actually has a decent shot. You also don't end up a PPG player at BC without being at least somewhat talented.

 

[Emperoreddy]

We could have said the same thing about Wood a few years ago.

He doesn't have any of the physical tools Wood has that has helped him stick.

 

[NjDevsRR]

I know we need a bigger sample size but I already want a Bahl jersey. Seeing a dman of his size skate so seamlessly for the Devils is fantastic.

#TeamBahlz

 

[ScottyK]

Bernier as a potential backup to Blackwood next season ? Det might pay to keep him since he has really overpreformed for them

 

[Guttersniped]

I think Kuokkanen has a long term role here, not on the top line of course.

Bastian is someone I think ends up washing out. Be tough kid, good motor, but not a lot of talent.

Hard to see him scoring enough to stay on a good NHL roster.

I disagree I think he’s established himself as a effective checking winger with his defense and physical play. And I thinks there’s enough offense, he scored in a defensive role in the AHL and I think his scoring can go up a bit here.

Sometimes it feels like people on this board evaluate forwards only on offense when defense is a important part of bottom six forward’s role. Everyone can’t score a ton of points or those good teams literally couldn’t afford them. I’m not sure who you thinks plays in the bottom six of good teams it’s not all six Blake Coleman’s.