Devils 2021 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXIX

[Triumph]

Wait, are we going to hold the fact that Sharangovich - Zajac - Kuokkanen line was productive against them? They cycled well, played smart and played very well defensively on top of that. Also Zajac is a net positive and easily #3C even if he produces at 30P/82GP rate.

They scored goals on 13% of their shots and the goalies allowed goals on 4% of the opponents' shots when they were on the ice. Totally unsustainable level of performance. Of course everyone will come up with reasons why the line worked - the line was okay. They weren't terribly underwater. They were never going to keep shooting 13% as a line, though, and good on the coaching staff for breaking this line up.

Regarding McLeod, if he doesn't improve from this season, there's no way I consider him 3C.

There is if you sign Zajac, and that is if Zajac is totally cooked, then McLeod by default becomes your 3C.

 

[NJDevs26]

To be fair, I’m old. I support the youth movement. The young players make the team worth watching. I’m glad they bit the bullet and are rebuilding from the ground up. It was delayed but the other method wasn’t working. We should always avoid lumping people into groups and assigning positions to them.

Yeah going by the very limited (and inexact since we aren’t close to actually knowing everyone else’s age) universe of this board saying it’s only older people who ‘hate the rebuild’ is silly. There are just as many 30-year old Jersey bros on Facebook and Twitter spoiled by nothing but success growing up - particularly if they’re Yankee fans as well, these are the people who would boo the team after a bad period at the tail end of a nine game winning streak…no this isn’t apocryphal, this actually happened in one of the Sutter years. If anything it wouldn’t shock me if most older people off the board were more patient with the rebuild given their institutional knowledge of the ‘80’s.

By the same token being a cynic over how long the rebuild is taking or questioning the GM’s who’ve never led a successful rebuild is not ‘hating a rebuild’, it’s being skeptical of whether it’ll work or not. I’m of the camp we’ve already failed in rebuild one at everything but leaving Fitz a better base for the second one. So far Fitz is doing what he’s needed to do and acquired a couple of pieces that might actually speed this process along but eventually they’ll have to start making decisions on who to keep and bring in as opposed to just selling guys when their contracts are up. That’s the harder part and one Shero never was able to fully nail.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Hello there, sir.

I don't believe we've met.

But I will say that this is quite the bad take on your part.



Sounds about right and I really don't understand why they can't see the promise in the young players we got right now.




I get what you're saying bill, but even you have to acknowledge that trashing the team even with all the promising players we have on(who have PROVEN that they have promise going forward) is kind of Defeat-ist if you get what I'm saying. Age doesn't matter in that case. It's more Negativity which is a head-scratcher.

I agree for sure, glen, but dont like the dismissive overtones...
I can't tell old/young until someone says "since 19xx" so I don't know who is who. The older guys have probably seen ground up, can't miss fools' gold rebuilds, whether it is generation k or innumerable jets or knicks or rangers or whatever, and are grasping for what is really genuine on this team instead of just flashy talent.

This team has the latter in abundance, but I think the worry/misperception is that it doesn't have that consistent rock or that all of our rocks are fragile.

For championship teams, you kinda need a couple of guys that just engender confidence that they won't be injured all the time, and that they will be consistent. I think we have that in Nico, ty and jack... and before his struggles MB29 It's early to say that, but it is my opinion. Others don't seem to be sold yet.

 

[hidek91]

They scored goals on 13% of their shots and the goalies allowed goals on 4% of the opponents' shots when they were on the ice. Totally unsustainable level of performance. Of course everyone will come up with reasons why the line worked - the line was okay. They weren't terribly underwater. They were never going to keep shooting 13% as a line, though, and good on the coaching staff for breaking this line up.

Agree that those numbers are unsustainable but:
1) Every single member of this line performed on a level that helped those numbers e. g. they had strong eye test as a line (IMO).
2) Those numbers exceed "3rd line" performance. Zajac can be solid #3C even if his numbers decrease.

They broke this line to get Hughes going but Zajac has a history of a good synergy with lots of different linemates, before Sharangovich-Kuokkanen duo, there was Blake Coleman, they even got Nikita Gusev going.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Would much rather bring back Palmieri or Coleman than Zajac. I’m comfortable with letting one of Maltsev, Boqvist, McLeod, or Mercer win the 3C job next season.

 

[Ryaduesu]

Could we sign Hamilton?

I know he turns 28 and its not the best fit timeline wise - but if we could sign him 5-6 years, Id love that kind of deal as a big name veteran to help stabilize the defense and continue to add to our offensive output

Sign Murray short term as well and run a Murray-Hamilton pair followed by Smith-Severson

 

[haak84]

Yeah going by the very limited (and inexact since we aren’t close to actually knowing everyone else’s age) universe of this board saying it’s only older people who ‘hate the rebuild’ is silly. There are just as many 30-year old Jersey bros on Facebook and Twitter spoiled by nothing but success growing up - particularly if they’re Yankee fans as well, these are the people who would boo the team after a bad period at the tail end of a nine game winning streak…no this isn’t apocryphal, this actually happened in one of the Sutter years. If anything it wouldn’t shock me if most older people off the board were more patient with the rebuild given their institutional knowledge of the ‘80’s.

By the same token being a cynic over how long the rebuild is taking or questioning the GM’s who’ve never led a successful rebuild is not ‘hating a rebuild’, it’s being skeptical of whether it’ll work or not. I’m of the camp we’ve already failed in rebuild one at everything but leaving Fitz a better base for the second one. So far Fitz is doing what he’s needed to do and acquired a couple of pieces that might actually speed this process along but eventually they’ll have to start making decisions on who to keep and bring in as opposed to just selling guys when their contracts are up. That’s the harder part and one Shero never was able to fully nail.

The reaction from 90's Devils/Yankees fans is completely different than the reaction from 90's Devils/Mets fans. I wonder what the correlation could be?

Also, Rango needs to be with Hughes going forward. No reason to mess with a good thing.

We used to have plugs like Drew Stafford getting 15 mins of ice time. This team is so much more exciting to watch.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Could we sign Hamilton?

I know he turns 28 and its not the best fit timeline wise - but if we could sign him 5-6 years, Id love that kind of deal as a big name veteran to help stabilize the defense and continue to add to our offensive output

Sign Murray short term as well and run a Murray-Hamilton pair followed by Smith-Severson

I would offer him the Pietrangelo contract and he would politely decline

 

[Guttersniped]

He was very good for us this season, IMO. If he keeps this level up he's a good 3C. If he declines, he may be bad 3C but that's always a risk with signing UFA. And in Zajac's case, there won't be a risk associated to the term and cultural fit.

And before that's brought up, his stint with NYI doesn't mean that he's a 4C. Maybe it just wasn't the right environment for him (and there wasn't a hole at center that he could fill).

Yeah, Zajac is getting scratched because they have four centers and Pageau is definitely a better 3C than he is. And they aren’t going to (and shouldn’t) break up their 4th line for him. They traded for a player they didn’t need unless a center gets injured.

Obviously Danault would be a better 3rd line center but there’s rumors that he turned down a lucrative contract from the Habs so I don’t what he expects to get paid. Or what the center market will be like vs. the winger market. There weren’t really any centers available last off-season. Seattle might want Danault if the ED doesn’t give them anyone better center-wise.

 

[TrufleShufle]

If you can't see the connection between the older posters and how they hate the younger guys and the rebuild...I don't know what to tell you

If you can’t see the connection with you never actually being able to debate someone on the content of their post, I don’t know what to tell you...my dude....

 

[Triumph]

Agree that those numbers are unsustainable but:
1) Every single member of this line performed on a level that helped those numbers e. g. they had strong eye test as a line (IMO).
2) Those numbers exceed "3rd line" performance. Zajac can be solid #3C even if his numbers decrease.

Zajac's career on-ice shooting percentage (less 2006-07) is 8.0%. That line scored 10 goals on 77 shots - 8.0% is 6 goals. Things look a lot different for that line if they score 6 goals.

They broke this line to get Hughes going but Zajac has a history of a good synergy with lots of different linemates, before Sharangovich-Kuokkanen duo, there was Blake Coleman, they even got Nikita Gusev going.

I mean, you may as well just say that Zajac also had good synergy with Parise and Jagr too - I think you need to question how much of Blake Coleman's supposed rise with Zajac is Coleman elevating Zajac rather than the reverse. That said, Zajac was once a very good player, and was passable as a 3C this season. I don't know if he will be that in 2021-22.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Could we sign Hamilton?

I know he turns 28 and its not the best fit timeline wise - but if we could sign him 5-6 years, Id love that kind of deal as a big name veteran to help stabilize the defense and continue to add to our offensive output

Sign Murray short term as well and run a Murray-Hamilton pair followed by Smith-Severson

It isn't the longest of long shots. Comes down to how much of a hometown discount he will give the canes, or whether they can even afford him. Would love it.

 

[Ryaduesu]

OOO OOO I LIKE MAKING FANTASY ROSTERS TOO

my turn

Bratt-Hischier-Zacha
Kuokkanen-Hughes-Sharangovich
Maltsev-Wennberg-Foote
Wood-McLeod-Bastian

Murray-Hamilton
Smith-Severson
Bahl-Subban

Blackwood
(?), Ullmark/Driedger/etc..

Sign Hamilton to something like 6-7 years, 9m, and Wennberg 3-5 years for 4.5-5.5. Sign a backup. I have Johnsson being bought out or lost to Seattle and Butcher being moved or lost to Seattle. If Johnsson stays just replace Maltsev with him

 

[theoptimist]

He was very good for us this season, IMO. If he keeps this level up he's a good 3C. If he declines, he may be bad 3C but that's always a risk with signing UFA. And in Zajac's case, there won't be a risk associated to the term and cultural fit.

And before that's brought up, his stint with NYI doesn't mean that he's a 4C. Maybe it just wasn't the right environment for him (and there wasn't a hole at center that he could fill).

If he declines...? Sir

 

[Hisch13r]

I would offer him the Pietrangelo contract and he would politely decline

Unless Carolina is lowballing him I don't see why he'd even want to leave

 

[Triumph]

It is no surprise that the people least hopeful about this rebuild tend to be people who remember the 80s Devils.

Since a lot of posts have happened since I dropped this grenade in, I'll try to explain my thinking behind it -

Our perspective on things tends to fix relatively early in life and it takes conscious effort to question assumptions that underlie that perspective. The 80s Devils were terrible for a number of reasons, but they existed in a totally different milieu - 16 out of 21 teams made the playoffs, and the Devils' total player salary outlay in the mid 80s was probably less than Subban's AAV this year. The cyclical nature of the sport had by no means been established, European players were much rarer, Russians didn't play at all, and I shudder to think at what pro scouting was in those days.

So yeah, it took a truly inept and wandering franchise to miss the playoffs 5 years in a row between 83 and 87 when 4 out of 6 teams in the division made it. Unfortunately that's just not true anymore in the 32 team NHL - not that the Devils haven't been inept, they have been, but that 'playoffs or bust' isn't a great way to look at franchises these days.

 

[Guttersniped]

Future or not its the worst theyve been in my personal life (post-1993), record-pace wise (worse than 2016-17 by 2-3 wins)

thankfully its a shortened season because thatd be real bad if they had to go another 30+ games with a roster that young against any teams still in the playoff hunt

in the same breathe this is the first time in my personal life they look like theyll be the Monstars in 2-3 years; growing up they already became the Monstars (was told by a few historians the 2000 Devils are one of the greatest teams ever, but definitely NOT on paper lol)

to sum it up; f*** the Rangers

This season’s record can’t be compared to other normal seasons, we only played seven teams.

We looked a whole lot better against the Flyers then the top teams in this division.

We were 4-3-1 against Buffalo but we ended up being the one team who faced their one good, but mostly injured, NHL goalie, Linus Ullmark, six times. All the other teams faced him less, he was 2-0-1 against the Rangers and Flyers, while going 4-1-0 against us. (He got injured in a start against us and the back-up blew the lead.)

You generally win more against worse teams. We’re 4-0-2 against the Bruins but it’s not like we could overachieve against the Capitals, Islanders and Penguins too. And we got hit harder by COVID and then had more condensed schedule right after. (As much a poster or two wants to deny that fact which no factual counter argument it actually happened.) I’m arguing that this team was secretly great, Fitz made clear that this was a development year but I’ve seen worse feeling Baatan Death Marches to the end season. Namely 2016-17. And I’ve seen great goaltending and vets hide a lack of young talent. Namely 2015-16. This season just functions differently.

The 2000 Devils are one of the greatest teams ever on paper. They don't have a franchise center but they have Elias-Arnott-Sykora (just a reminder for everyone who loves to talk about peaks, Elias was 23/24, Arnott was 25, and Sykora was 23), Holik one of the greatest defensive centers ever for their 2nd line, they had a rookie phenom in Scott Gomez for the 3rd, and an extremely competent 4th line. They subtracted Lyle Odelein for Vladimir Malakhov, an upgrade. Stevens and Niedermayer, obviously, but Rafalski solidified the top pairing, Daneyko was still decent enough to play 2nd pairing, and Colin White wasn't totally out of his depth with Malakhov on the 3rd unit.

They outshot the opposition by 190 in the playoffs despite being 16-7. Detroit's 2008 team is up there at +280 in 22 games, but the 2000 Devils were just a steamroller.

Yeah, I’m stunned a Devils fan could shit on that team but the 2000-01 was actually even better. A 48 goal differential is nice but 100 goal differential is crazy. I can’t stand seeing the Colorado team get on any Greatest NHL team because that Devils team was better then them too. (And deserves to be on those lists too.) The somewhat fluky 3rd Cup makes up for that loss at least psychologically for me but that 2000-01 team will never quite get it’s deserved props because injuries and running out of steam cost it the Cup.

 

[Zippy316]

I don’t think the organization sees 3C as much of a need as a top line winger and defenseman are. We have Zacha boqvist maltsev and McLeod that can all play center behind jack and nico. We have a ton of middle six wingers

Long-term? No. But we do need to acquire some veterans so our entire forward group isn't 23 year olds. Even if it's just a utility forward like Coleman/Janmark or a one year veteran like Zajac. I think the hope was Johnsson could be one of those, but he clearly hasn't proven that.

Just someone who can fill that can solidify a line and move up if need be.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

 

[Hisch13r]

I don’t think the organization sees 3C as much of a need as a top line winger and defenseman are. We have Zacha boqvist maltsev and McLeod that can all play center behind jack and nico. We have a ton of middle six wingers

Zacha cannot play center. Please never ever again

 

[Zippy316]

It isn't the longest of long shots. Comes down to how much of a hometown discount he will give the canes, or whether they can even afford him. Would love it.

Hamilton would be awesome. Devils definitely look to be one of the few teams that can offer him both term and salary this off-season with at least some potential on competing in the next 2-3 years. Your other teams with cap space either have aging cores, at the start of the rebuild, or have some major holes on their teams.

The one thing with Hamilton is it seems like he doesn't like the spotlight and seems to be more of a quieter guy in that sense. Devils would fit perfectly as it's a pretty low pressure environment in terms of local media.

 

[RememberTheName]

I like both options as 3C. And I also think McLeod has scope to improve his numbers and become a long term 3C but I would rather keep him where he is with Wood and Bastian. That is the makings of an elite 4th line.

If I am Fitzy, my players targets are as follows:

1. Goalie. I dont want a backup, I want someone capable of starting or playing a co-no.1 role with Blackwood.

2. Right defense. I'll be all in on Dougie Hamilton or try and get a top 4 D via trade. Could Matt Dumba be a fit?

3. Left defense. This can be achieved by re-signing Murray or Kulikov.

4. Top 6 winger. Johnsson has been a bust, we could use someone with goal scoring ability to finish Hughes playmaking. I would seriously overpay for Landeskog. He has the scoring and leadership intangibles that this young team needs but I acknowledge that he is extremely unlikely to leave Colorado. Another I like from the same team is Brandon Saad. I think he is more achieveable to sign and he has cup winning experience that the young players on this team could learn from. Jaden Schwartz fits this bill too.

5. 3rd line center. One that can PK. Wennberg and Danault are good options.

Scenario 1. Sign a winger & 3C:

Saad - Hughes - Holtz
Zacha - Hischier - Bratt
Kuokkanen - Wennberg - Sharangovich
Wood - McLeod - Bastian

Scatched/Taxi: Boqvist-Maltsev-Merkley
Seattle: Johnsson

In the above scenario, hopefully Johnsson gets taken by Seattle but if he doesn't. Then he could slot on 4th line if Bastian is taken instead.

Or we could give him one more season on a 3rd line and move up Sharangovich, if we want to not throw Holtz immediately into a top 6 winger role.

There isnt a spot for Boqvist, but he could be a useful 13th forward that is capable of filling in at center or wing.
Maltsev can also fill this role as a 13th/14th forward. Merkley probably gets waived again. Foote continues his development in AHL.

Scenario 2. No free agency signings.

Kuokkanen - Hughes - Sharangovich
Zacha - Hischier - Bratt
Wood - McLeod - Bastian
Boqvist-Maltsev-Merkley

Seattle: Johnsson

Do we want to go into next season with the current team as it is right now at forward? The Hughes line deserves another look together.

Unfortunately, I don't think we can come into next season with the exact same forward group. That is just a recipe for disaster. We have seen how these guys look when they are cold, and its bad. If we go into next year with the same lines, we will no doubt have another bottom 5 offense in the league. As much as we like the Hughes line as it is, Kuokkanen really just shouldn't be a first line winger, but I think keeping Rango and Hughes together is good. He is an ideal third liner in my eyes. And then that bottom 6 being essentially a good fourth line in the BMW line and then a really bad fourth line in Boq, Malts, and Merkley is killing any offensive depth we might hope to have.

I really think and hope that Fitz utilizes your first scenario to the max, especially for our forwards. Wennberg would be a great pickup for the third line, and likewise for the first line for a Saad/Schwartz type. And these guys are merely stopgaps for some of the young guys we will have in Bing like Holtz, Mercer, Clarke, etc.. It brings in some real offensive skill while allowing our prospects to develop without playing over their heads in a league they aren't ready for.

 

[Hisch13r]

Unfortunately, I don't think we can come into next season with the exact same forward group. That is just a recipe for disaster. We have seen how these guys look when they are cold, and its bad. If we go into next year with the same lines, we will no doubt have another bottom 5 offense in the league. As much as we like the Hughes line as it is, Kuokkanen really just shouldn't be a first line winger, but I think keeping Rango and Hughes together is good. He is an ideal third liner in my eyes. And then that bottom 6 being essentially a good fourth line in the BMW line and then a really bad fourth line in Boq, Malts, and Merkley is killing any offensive depth we might hope to have.

I really think and hope that Fitz utilizes your first scenario to the max, especially for our forwards. Wennberg would be a great pickup for the third line, and likewise for the first line for a Saad/Schwartz type. And these guys are merely stopgaps for some of the young guys we will have in Bing like Holtz, Mercer, Clarke, etc.. It brings in some real offensive skill while allowing our prospects to develop without playing over their heads in a league they aren't ready for.

We don't even have a bottom 5 offense as is. We're 21st in GF/G.

 

[Eggtimer]

As much as it sicks to say so , I think next year will be another developmental season . Let the young kids show what they have and Fitz will try to add to the roster if it makes sense. With hopefully Holtz and Mercer getting spot call-ups. Maybe a Bahl or another young D making the roster . With a good back-up and maybe a D signing of Larsson / Kulikov to help out hopefully we are a bubble playoff team and the year after we go hard on neocon g a legit contender

 

[Hisch13r]

As much as it sicks to say so , I think next year will be another developmental season . Let the young kids show what they have and Fitz will try to add to the roster if it makes sense. With hopefully Holtz and Mercer getting spot call-ups. Maybe a Bahl or another young D making the roster . With a good back-up and maybe a D signing of Larsson / Kulikov to help out hopefully we are a bubble playoff team and the year after we go hard on neocon g a legit contender

You might be right but I'm a little more cautious. I think next year is definitely another development year and if they make a bubble push then that's nice but I think that's extra. The year after we're a bubble team. Then we're actual contenders