Devils 2021-22 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XII

[Devils731]

Subban will almost certainly be traded at the deadline, and what the Devils get in return is likely dependent on how much salary NJ retains. If the Devils retain $8 million and send him to a team which really (really, really) needs him like Toronto, a first round pick in return is not out of the question.

Devils can only retain $4.5 million so Toronto needs to shed about $3.5 million to acquire Subban.

 

[MadDevil]

The move with Subban is obvious. Ship him back to Nashville for Davies and Tennyson.

 

[Guttersniped]

Devils can only retain $4.5 million so Toronto needs to shed about $3.5 million to acquire Subban.

A 3rd team can retain 50% of the salary and since his salary is only 2m in real money it might only take a 5th to get them to do it. So he would have 2.25m cap hit. We might take something back.

I don’t want to too much into the weeds on this when the trade line is 2 months away. Other people can of course, have fun with it, but I can’t say what the level interest will be. Not sure. I’m not that fun with fantasy trades. (I’m normally super fun!)

 

[Emperoreddy]

Outside of Subban I am not terribly interested in sell offs unless someone really blows us away with an offer.

I don't think 3rd round picks are really worth creating even more depth issues right when the schedule gets super crunched up.

The guys who maybe have the most value like Mango and Severson should also be useful next season (and beyond in Severson's case).

Guys like Boqvist, Zacha, Kuokkanen have no value.

 

[Guttersniped]

Tatar has been fine, I don't understand why people have a problem with him. He was a stop gap and also supposed to try and help offset the loss of Palmieri, which he's absolutely done. He's been better than Palmieri has this year by quite a bit. He also doesn't play too many minutes. I think he barely averages more icetime than Michael McLeod this year, if that tells you anything. That said, he probably won't play here in 2 years from now (2023-2024) when his contract is up after next summer.

Kuokkonen probably won't be here by then either, as his contract is also set to expire next summer, but he's also still an RFA. We either won't qualify him if he doesn't improve by next season and some other team will sign him on the UFA market or he'll sign in Europe.

Zacha is fine until we start giving him contracts that have any sort of term. I don't want him here beyond next year, but if he is here then I won't complain if he's on one year deals. He's up for UFA in 2023 also, that's assuming we only give him a one year extension this summer.

Johnsson - Another guy that's up for UFA in the summer of 2023, it seems like all of these guys contracts are up in 2023, other than Zacha who is up after this year. I don't know if it would be best if we signed him after that. Probably not though.

Boqvist shouldn't play another game here after this year, certainly not for the NHL team. The audition has been long enough and he has hardly been better than Vladimir Zharkov in a similar number of games played. I have a feeling that he might go to Europe if he realizes there's no chance that he'll stick in the NHL full time next year. He didn't really seem to wanna play in the AHL to start 19-20, so we had to start him in the NHL here that year just to get him to sign. I forgot what the story was there, but I don't really care anymore because Boqvist is just a significantly nothing player with no real long term NHL potential at this point.

I agree about Tatar, he’s been about what I expected, even if he’s been snake bit at times and has his flaws. He’s been on several solid lines and either we flip him next year or he’s “our own rental”.

I have a fact free, baseless theory: there are high motor guys vs high enthusiasm guys who fake a high motor because coaches want that.

Parise is a legendary ridiculously high motor guy, it’s like his body is a cold fusion mini-reactor.

Johnsson works his ass off, and he has an ok motor, but some of it is just a force of will. It’s admirable, he just barrels down the ice and then using some good eye/hand coordination around the net, but I’m not surprised he hit a wall. He’s clearly using a lot of effort, at times too much, it’s not something someone he can sustain. He’s streaky though, he’ll likely hit another hot patch or two. I don’t see him sticking around longterm either, he’ll be 29 when his deal is up.

Shara has been pretty good lately (not against the Yotes so much…) and there’s zero reason to write him off this early.

Zacha hasn’t been wildly outproducing his expected goals like last season so he sucks I guess. His advanced stats are pretty good now! He gets nothing for that? Tough crowd. And yes, this cold streak ain’t good, but he’s better defensively (at wing) in tough minutes so he’s not driving me crazy. (His goals against are ugly… I’m putting some of that on goaltending because of all the improvements but he still manages to get real high there.)

I think he hangs on here but his 3m qualifying offer is a pickle and I don’t see him getting a long term deal (from anyone really, which limits his trade value). Also, it’s a bummer he decided to go back to not being good at face-offs. Just a side note.

Now Kuokkanen, he’s had some issues. The “he can play with anyone!” stuff went away. He’s had some brutal games with Mercer and I don’t like him with Nico. I think he’s been ok in some lines (with Vesey & McLeod?) but I don’t care enough to look. (I’m at that point.) He could randomly put it back together, it’s not like bottom six defensive winger is out of his range.

Boqvist has a weird face. It had to be said. He’s also a person, with a physical body, who exists in space. That also describes him. *sigh* He’s wreaked real havoc in our bottom six at times, he sucked so hard on some of those lines I thought Kuok might have accidentally on purpose shoved him down an elevator shaft to get out of playing with him. He was actually pretty good with Zacha & Nico, except for the scoring part. And by that I mean generating offense. So no, I’m not currently particularly optimistic about him. Change my mind Other Jesper!

Boqvist had a European Assignment Clause that allowed him to go back to his Swedish team if he didn’t make the NJ roster. They kind of dangled him along to keep him here and didn’t assign him to the minors until January 19th. (Sneaky Devils.) He got scratched a bunch and he played 34 of the 48 games, with not a lot of minutes.

Going down to the AHL and getting more minutes on team charging it’s way into the playoffs would have worked out fine. Unfortunately, except for you know what f***ing that up. So he only got 19 AHL games, plus he was randomly called up for one more NHL game.

McLeod is at about the Jiri Tlusty/ Tyler Kennedy/ 2013-14 Steve Bernier level of 5v5 goal-scoring. He needs to pick it up if he wants reach the lofty heights of a 2014-15 Josefson or a 2010-11 Zharkov (who was a much smarter player and better defensively, please no Sharky slander).

 

[My3Sons]

Outside of Subban I am not terribly interested in sell offs unless someone really blows us away with an offer.

I don't think 3rd round picks are really worth creating even more depth issues right when the schedule gets super crunched up.

The guys who maybe have the most value like Mango and Severson should also be useful next season (and beyond in Severson's case).

Guys like Boqvist, Zacha, Kuokkanen have no value.

agreed from me. Selling off a player who has any term left for a mid round pick sends a bad message to the players. It signals you are potentially giving away a piece of next season already. I can’t see NJ doing that absent a clear upgrade or a necessary type of trade. I could see moving a wing for a RD to play if Subban is moved first.

 

[Bleedred]

I agree about Tatar, he’s been about what I expected, even if he’s been snake bit at times and has his flaws. He’s been on several solid lines and either we flip him next year or he’s “our own rental”.

I have a fact free, baseless theory: there are high motor guys vs high enthusiasm guys who fake a high motor because coaches want that.

Parise is a legendary ridiculously high motor guy, it’s like his body is a cold fusion mini-reactor.

Johnsson works his ass off, and he has an ok motor, but some of it is just a force of will. It’s admirable, he just barrels down the ice and then using some good eye/hand coordination around the net, but I’m not surprised he hit a wall. He’s clearly using a lot of effort, at times too much, it’s not something someone he can sustain. He’s streaky though, he’ll likely hit another hot patch or two. I don’t see him sticking around longterm either, he’ll be 29 when his deal is up.

Shara has been pretty good lately (not against the Yotes so much…) and there’s zero reason to write him off this early.

Zacha hasn’t been wildly outproducing his expected goals like last season so he sucks I guess. His advanced stats are pretty good now! He gets nothing for that? Tough crowd. And yes, this cold streak ain’t good, but he’s better defensively (at wing) in tough minutes so he’s not driving me crazy. (His goals against are ugly… I’m putting some of that on goaltending because of all the improvements but he still manages to get real high there.)

I think he hangs on here but his 3m qualifying offer is a pickle and I don’t see him getting a long term deal (from anyone really, which limits his trade value). Also, it’s a bummer he decided to go back to not being good at face-offs. Just a side note.

Now Kuokkanen, he’s had some issues. The “he can play with anyone!” stuff went away. He’s had some brutal games with Mercer and I don’t like him with Nico. I think he’s been ok in some lines (with Vesey & McLeod?) but I don’t care enough to look. (I’m at that point.) He could randomly put it back together, it’s not like bottom six defensive winger is out of his range.

Boqvist has a weird face. It had to be said. He’s also a person, with a physical body, who exists in space. That also describes him. *sigh* He’s wreaked real havoc in our bottom six at times, he sucked so hard on some of those lines I thought Kuok might have accidentally on purpose shoved him down an elevator shaft to get out of playing with him. He was actually pretty good with Zacha & Nico, except for the scoring part. And by that I mean generating offense. So no, I’m not currently particularly optimistic about him. Change my mind Other Jesper!

Boqvist had a European Assignment Clause that allowed him to go back to his Swedish team if he didn’t make the NJ roster. They kind of dangled him along to keep him here and didn’t assign him to the minors until January 19th. (Sneaky Devils.) He got scratched a bunch and he played 34 of the 48 games, with not a lot of minutes.

Going down to the AHL and getting more minutes on team charging it’s way into the playoffs would have worked out fine. Unfortunately, except for you know what f***ing that up. So he only got 19 AHL games, plus he was randomly called up for one more NHL game.

McLeod is at about the Jiri Tlusty/ Tyler Kennedy/ 2013-14 Steve Bernier level of 5v5 goal-scoring. He needs to pick it up if he wants reach the lofty heights of a 2014-15 Josefson or a 2010-11 Zharkov (who was a much smarter player and better defensively, please no Sharky slander).

I just mentioned Zharkov recently when talking about Boqvist and how Zharkov had just one fewer point than Boqvist in only 4 more games played in the NHL as of right now.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Outside of Subban I am not terribly interested in sell offs unless someone really blows us away with an offer.

I don't think 3rd round picks are really worth creating even more depth issues right when the schedule gets super crunched up.

The guys who maybe have the most value like Mango and Severson should also be useful next season (and beyond in Severson's case).

Guys like Boqvist, Zacha, Kuokkanen have no value.

Disagree. The idea that Zacha has no value is a complete myth.

 

[ninetyeight]

What's the measure of value anyway? More than a 3rd round pick? I doubt any of them return decent players, only other struggling cases.

Kuokkanen could thrive in a slower system/team and I could easily see a team give a 3rd rounder for him. Columbus might give atleast a 4th round for Boq. Last season / early this season Zacha had value, but if he keeps playing like this it will only get less and less. I could see someone paying a 2nd round pick for him or another needs change of scenary type of guy. I think he has more value for us as a liked team mate, backup C and streaky goal scorer.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Disagree. The idea that Zacha has no value is a complete myth.

I wouldn't be surprised if his value is similar than it was with Bennett last season. Two second round draft picks (another one was Heineman who was a second round pick from the 2020 draft).

 

[AfroThunder396]

Zacha has some value, but not a ton. Any team trading for him gets one year before RFA, so they're trading for an audition. But like I've said in many previous posts, there's a lot that could lead a GM to believe he's the victim of a Devils problem as opposed to the other way around.

I'd take a 2nd for him if someone offered it, but I'd prefer to swap him for a similar change of scenery forward.

 

[Triumph]

Zacha has some value, but not a ton. Any team trading for him gets one year before RFA, so they're trading for an audition. But like I've said in many previous posts, there's a lot that could lead a GM to believe he's the victim of a Devils problem as opposed to the other way around.

I'd take a 2nd for him if someone offered it, but I'd prefer to swap him for a similar change of scenery forward.

And this is basically the value he has - I think it's slightly more than a 2nd round pick, but not a whole lot more. It isn't nothing, but it is quite close. I'd be very surprised to see him move at the deadline.

 

[NJDfan86]

I think when most people say “Zacha has no value” they aren’t saying that he literally no value, it’s just that what you get back won’t be anything special so what is the point of trading him.

you might get someone similarly flawed, or a not premium draft choice but no one is giving up a good player/prospect/pick for Zacha.

 

[My3Sons]

I think when most people say “Zacha has no value” they aren’t saying that he literally no value, it’s just that what you get back won’t be anything special so what is the point of trading him.

you might get someone similarly flawed, or a not premium draft choice but no one is giving up a good player/prospect/pick for Zacha.

if the NYI had a playoff run on the line this season I could see Lou having significant interest in Zacha and Severson. Maybe next year.

 

[Bleedred]

Just wait... Zacha will get hot again for the last few weeks of the year and everyone will want to keep him around again.

Which is absolutely infuriating when people buy the hype and what's sad is that management sometimes buys the hype. There was the one year where he had 13 points in 18 or 20 games (I just quoted it yesterday and already forgot what it was) to end the season after he had 5 points in 31 games to start the season and people really thought he was closer to the last 30 games (and particularly 20) than he was for the first 31 games. The truth is that he was somewhere between, which is exactly what his season as a whole seemed to indicate.

That's how teams get into trouble by giving guys greater roles than they deserve for the next season and depending on them to fill those based on a very small sample size that follows a larger sample size that's much more underwhelming. And sometimes even worse, that's how bad contracts and long term plans for a particular player are made.

 

[jkrdevil]

Which is absolutely infuriating when people buy the hype and what's sad is that management sometimes buys the hype. There was the one year where he had 13 points in 18 or 20 games (I just quoted it yesterday and already forgot what it was) to end the season after he had 5 points in 31 games to start the season and people really thought he was closer to the last 30 games (and particularly 20) than he was for the first 31 games. The truth is that he was somewhere between, which is exactly what his season as a whole seemed to indicate.

That's how teams get into trouble by giving guys greater roles than they deserve for the next season and depending on them to fill those based on a very small sample size that follows a larger sample size that's much more underwhelming. And sometimes even worse, that's how bad contracts and long term plans for a particular player are made.

Nothing from this part of the season on should be taken into consideration for evaluations. It is garbage time.

 

[Saugus]

if the NYI had a playoff run on the line this season I could see Lou having significant interest in Zacha and Severson. Maybe next year.

As long as Lou is out there, we can always rely on shipping our expiring contracts out to the Island of Misfit Devils.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Dougie Hamilton Being Evaluated Week-to-Week | INJURY UPDATE

Dougie is skating. Still week-to-week.

 

[Triumph]

Nothing from this part of the season on should be taken into consideration for evaluations. It is garbage time.

I do not understand this thinking at all. Yeah, an April game against a team also out of the playoffs, or a team locked into their playoff position, sure. Players want to win and be part of a winning team, and other teams are also trying to win.

 

[Bleedred]

Nothing from this part of the season on should be taken into consideration for evaluations. It is garbage time.

Yes and no. If a player that’s been terrible all year (and not good most of last year) like Blackwood particularly has a .920% stretch over his last 20 games that shouldn’t reach a verdict that he’s fixed and that he’s ready to go for 40-50 games next year again.

Zacha having close to a PPG over a 20 game stretch after he’s went 20 games doing nothing also shouldn’t return a verdict that he’s amazing. He will have also done this before while never actually having a season that was amazing.

Those are two particular examples.

I would take someone like Ty Smith seriously if he had a very strong second half because he wasn’t bad last season. If he can end the season just having an average year on the whole then that would be terrific.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

 

[The Wumpus]

Zacha is one of those players that sticks around their drafting team for 5-6 years and then once that first trade happens goes through like 5 teams in the next four years. It's actually a surprisingly common career arc.

 

[forceten]

They stood pat and stayed status quo.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Yep. Pain indeed.

BuT gOaLtEnDiNg IsNt OnE oF tHe IsSuEs

 

[Blender]

-27 below expected is brutal.