Devils 2021-22 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XII

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JrFischer54

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Jesus Christ you're the most negative poster in here, you need to change your avatar to Glum:

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lol did you read the post that i was replying to? i guess not lol
 

Bleedred

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This.

This.

This.

The only guy of that group I still want on this team 2 years from now is Sharangovich. MAYBE Zacha if he can become more consistent.
Tatar has been fine, I don't understand why people have a problem with him. He was a stop gap and also supposed to try and help offset the loss of Palmieri, which he's absolutely done. He's been better than Palmieri has this year by quite a bit. He also doesn't play too many minutes. I think he barely averages more icetime than Michael McLeod this year, if that tells you anything. That said, he probably won't play here in 2 years from now (2023-2024) when his contract is up after next summer.

Kuokkonen probably won't be here by then either, as his contract is also set to expire next summer, but he's also still an RFA. We either won't qualify him if he doesn't improve by next season and some other team will sign him on the UFA market or he'll sign in Europe.

Zacha is fine until we start giving him contracts that have any sort of term. I don't want him here beyond next year, but if he is here then I won't complain if he's on one year deals. He's up for UFA in 2023 also, that's assuming we only give him a one year extension this summer.

Johnsson - Another guy that's up for UFA in the summer of 2023, it seems like all of these guys contracts are up in 2023, other than Zacha who is up after this year. I don't know if it would be best if we signed him after that. Probably not though.

Boqvist shouldn't play another game here after this year, certainly not for the NHL team. The audition has been long enough and he has hardly been better than Vladimir Zharkov in a similar number of games played. I have a feeling that he might go to Europe if he realizes there's no chance that he'll stick in the NHL full time next year. He didn't really seem to wanna play in the AHL to start 19-20, so we had to start him in the NHL here that year just to get him to sign. I forgot what the story was there, but I don't really care anymore because Boqvist is just a significantly nothing player with no real long term NHL potential at this point.
 

Lou is God

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Tatar has been fine, I don't understand why people have a problem with him. He was a stop gap and also supposed to try and help offset the loss of Palmieri, which he's absolutely done. He's been better than Palmieri has this year by quite a bit. He also doesn't play too many minutes. I think he barely averages more icetime than Michael McLeod this year, if that tells you anything. That said, he probably won't play here in 2 years from now (2023-2024) when his contract is up after next summer.

Kuokkonen probably won't be here by then either, as his contract is also set to expire next summer, but he's also still an RFA. We either won't qualify him if he doesn't improve by next season and some other team will sign him on the UFA market or he'll sign in Europe.

Zacha is fine until we start giving him contracts that have any sort of term. I don't want him here beyond next year, but if he is here then I won't complain if he's on one year deals. He's up for UFA in 2023 also, that's assuming we only give him a one year extension this summer.

Johnsson - Another guy that's up for UFA in the summer of 2023, it seems like all of these guys contracts are up in 2023, other than Zacha who is up after this year. I don't know if it would be best if we signed him after that. Probably not though.

Boqvist shouldn't play here after this year, certainly not for the NHL team. The audition has been long enough and he has hardly been better than Vladimir Zharkov in a similar number of games played. I have a feeling that he might go to Europe if he realizes there's no chance that he'll stick in the NHL full time next year. He didn't really seem to wanna play in the AHL to start 19-20, so we had to start him in the NHL here that year just to get him to sign. I forgot what the story was there, but I don't really care anymore because Boqvist is just a significantly nothing player with no real long term NHL potential at this point.
The issue with Tatar is really not himself but we didn't a player of his style (maybe it is him lol), we needed someone like Saad. It does blow we missed out on him, he would have helped out immensely.

I would call Columbus about Boqvist, see if they would be interested in uniting him and his brother. They might.
 

RSeen

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Nico's CF% this season is 24th amongst centers with +300 minutes, better than MacKinnon, Draisaitl, Giroux, Aho, Crosby, Point, Couturier, Schiefele, Pavelski, Kopitar, Tavares, O'Reilly, Marchessault, Zegras, Pettersen, Kuznetsov, Barzal, Horvat, and Hertl.

He has 11 points (6 goals) in his last 14 games, which is astonishing considering that his primary linemate has only 4 points in 17 games over the same stretch.
We have to get Nico some better linemates this offseason. Zacha in addition to not being productive at even strength, is not a stylistic fit IMO. Nico needs another linemate who can play off the cycle and ideally has some finishing skill.
 
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Guttersniped

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He wasn't good against the Islanders...His line was on the ice for 2 of the 3 goal - He was late picking up the point man on the second goal (2:45) and Sharangovich did a terrible job picking up the man in front of the net.

And on the game winner both Jack and Sharangovich both went to one man leaving the center of the ice wide open for the Barzal goal (4:16)




That horrific D play coupled with 0 points is not a good game

Jack was better then most of the players in that game. It wasn’t like his defense was uniquely the problem and he played 20+ minutes because the bottom two lines were getting completely bent over.
 

billingtons ghost

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The thing I love about Nico is his compete level. Not necessarily his decisions with the puck. I think he'll be a terrific 2C for us for years.

I have no worries about him, nor Jack, nor Bratt - except in the health/size department, because you know they are going to be targets when games get interesting and I don't logically see how they'll be able to fight through that unless they are surrounded by guys who are hard to play against. I'm good with Mercer in all cases because he seems to be the kinda kid we need and has all kinds of confidence and talent. I can see him being a playoff mainstay.

I'm fine with Bastian/McLeod as 4th liners. Sad use of first and second rounders, but if they can form a 4th line that is one of the best in the league I'm on board with that.

The rest of the team is entirely hot garbage. All of them could have good statistical seasons if paired with Bratt or Jack - but that's the only way they will succeed here, and we need something ALOT better than what they bring because Tatar, Johnsson, Kuok, Boqvist, and Zacha are worthless if not scoring. Sharangovich *might* be a passable 3rd liner, or he might just be out of the league. I've liked him better at C this season, but there's no place for that on this team. Vesey is an ok plug on the 4th line and PK if Wood never comes back. I'd rather see Studenic.

Dougie is great. Siegs has been a find on 3rd pair. We need to sign Graves. The rest all of have question marks; and despite hating on Sevs (rightfully for at least half of the seasons he's been here) I'd like to have him back if he takes a hometown discount. Subban should be gone at TDL. I was high on Smith and still think he'll be good, but I don't know if he's what we need. White/Jaros and even Bahl probably don't belong (sad to say because I was Bahls deep on Bahl.)
 

billingtons ghost

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Tatar has been fine, I don't understand why people have a problem with him. He was a stop gap and also supposed to try and help offset the loss of Palmieri, which he's absolutely done. He's been better than Palmieri has this year by quite a bit. He also doesn't play too many minutes. I think he barely averages more icetime than Michael McLeod this year, if that tells you anything. That said, he probably won't play here in 2 years from now (2023-2024) when his contract is up after next summer.

Kuokkonen probably won't be here by then either, as his contract is also set to expire next summer, but he's also still an RFA. We either won't qualify him if he doesn't improve by next season and some other team will sign him on the UFA market or he'll sign in Europe.

Zacha is fine until we start giving him contracts that have any sort of term. I don't want him here beyond next year, but if he is here then I won't complain if he's on one year deals. He's up for UFA in 2023 also, that's assuming we only give him a one year extension this summer.

Johnsson - Another guy that's up for UFA in the summer of 2023, it seems like all of these guys contracts are up in 2023, other than Zacha who is up after this year. I don't know if it would be best if we signed him after that. Probably not though.

Boqvist shouldn't play another game here after this year, certainly not for the NHL team. The audition has been long enough and he has hardly been better than Vladimir Zharkov in a similar number of games played. I have a feeling that he might go to Europe if he realizes there's no chance that he'll stick in the NHL full time next year. He didn't really seem to wanna play in the AHL to start 19-20, so we had to start him in the NHL here that year just to get him to sign. I forgot what the story was there, but I don't really care anymore because Boqvist is just a significantly nothing player with no real long term NHL potential at this point.

Thought this was all on the money until the Tatar replaces Palmieri. If you mean 'shit on a stick BAD Palmieri of last year' instead of 'team leader in points, dig in the corners heart and soul Palmieri' of the previous years, well then, yeah - but I didn't think we needed last year's Palmieri replaced. He's done a terrifc job of being pretty lucky in the right place on occasions, but... certainly not good enough to play on our top two lines - and that's saying something because really no one on this team outside the top 4 guys should dream of deserving a spot on the top two lines of any hockey team.
 
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RSeen

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The thing I love about Nico is his compete level. Not necessarily his decisions with the puck. I think he'll be a terrific 2C for us for years.

I have no worries about him, nor Jack, nor Bratt - except in the health/size department, because you know they are going to be targets when games get interesting and I don't logically see how they'll be able to fight through that unless they are surrounded by guys who are hard to play against. I'm good with Mercer in all cases because he seems to be the kinda kid we need and has all kinds of confidence and talent. I can see him being a playoff mainstay.

I'm fine with Bastian/McLeod as 4th liners. Sad use of first and second rounders, but if they can form a 4th line that is one of the best in the league I'm on board with that.

The rest of the team is entirely hot garbage. All of them could have good statistical seasons if paired with Bratt or Jack - but that's the only way they will succeed here, and we need something ALOT better than what they bring because Tatar, Johnsson, Kuok, Boqvist, and Zacha are worthless if not scoring. Sharangovich *might* be a passable 3rd liner, or he might just be out of the league. I've liked him better at C this season, but there's no place for that on this team. Vesey is an ok plug on the 4th line and PK if Wood never comes back. I'd rather see Studenic.

Dougie is great. Siegs has been a find on 3rd pair. We need to sign Graves. The rest all of have question marks; and despite hating on Sevs (rightfully for at least half of the seasons he's been here) I'd like to have him back if he takes a hometown discount. Subban should be gone at TDL. I was high on Smith and still think he'll be good, but I don't know if he's what we need. White/Jaros and even Bahl probably don't belong (sad to say because I was Bahls deep on Bahl.)
Depth is a major issue up front without a doubt and it an area we have to improve.

Siegs is a top 4 Dman IMO. He has been terrific this year.
 

Guttersniped

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He did the same in 2019-2020 when had 14 points in 15 games At the end of December 2019 after the Hall Trade....That was the "real Nico"... not the one That had 4 points in the final 12 games of the same season.
The stretch of games after Nico was out for 15 days? Those games? And Nico was out because because on the game against Dallas on Feb 1st:

[Hischier] missed the opening few minutes of the second period after needing stitches on his knee from a hit by Steven Johns in the first period.

Oh, we were down in 2-1 in that game until Nico scored in the middle of the 3rd period. (We lost in OT when Pavelski scored though, so definitely strip of him of the C, a real leader would have won that game too.)

Pavelski lifts Stars past Devils in OT

Nico missed 6 games with that injury before coming back on the 16th in a game against Columbus. He was gimpy as f*** when he came back. You know the most likely reason why he came back right then, despite being gimpy as f***?

The Coleman/Zajac/Goose line had become our defacto top line 1st line at that point. Coleman was traded on February 16th. So Nico got back his ass back out there because the kid is a gamer who “loves to battle with the boys”.

We beat Columbus 4-3 and Nico had the primary assist on the game-tying goal (we won in SO).

And then yes, he had 3 points (1G 2A) in the last 11 games as he gutted it out through the rest of the season with a punchless Hughes as his winger.

Hughes had a couple of minor injuries himself but his biggest issue probably that he had hit the rookie wall so hard I’m surprised he wasn’t in traction.

You can quote Hughes’ and Nico’s past raw point totals forever but I don’t exactly see the point. Unless the team gets a time machine those numbers you keep bitching about won’t actually change.
 

Bleedred

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Thought this was all on the money until the Tatar replaces Palmieri. If you mean 'shit on a stick BAD Palmieri of last year' instead of 'team leader in points, dig in the corners heart and soul Palmieri' of the previous years, well then, yeah - but I didn't think we needed last year's Palmieri replaced. He's done a terrifc job of being pretty lucky in the right place on occasions, but... certainly not good enough to play on our top two lines - and that's saying something because really no one on this team outside the top 4 guys should dream of deserving a spot on the top two lines of any hockey team.
I think as of this year he's more than good enough to play on our top two lines. He hasn't been a top line guy but certainly acceptable 2nd line production, especially when you look at his minutes played. I don't expect that to be the case by sometime next year and that's okay cause his time is probably done by next Spring.
 
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Maine Fan

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The thing I love about Nico is his compete level. Not necessarily his decisions with the puck. I think he'll be a terrific 2C for us for years.

I have no worries about him, nor Jack, nor Bratt - except in the health/size department, because you know they are going to be targets when games get interesting and I don't logically see how they'll be able to fight through that unless they are surrounded by guys who are hard to play against. I'm good with Mercer in all cases because he seems to be the kinda kid we need and has all kinds of confidence and talent. I can see him being a playoff mainstay.

I'm fine with Bastian/McLeod as 4th liners. Sad use of first and second rounders, but if they can form a 4th line that is one of the best in the league I'm on board with that.

The rest of the team is entirely hot garbage. All of them could have good statistical seasons if paired with Bratt or Jack - but that's the only way they will succeed here, and we need something ALOT better than what they bring because Tatar, Johnsson, Kuok, Boqvist, and Zacha are worthless if not scoring. Sharangovich *might* be a passable 3rd liner, or he might just be out of the league. I've liked him better at C this season, but there's no place for that on this team. Vesey is an ok plug on the 4th line and PK if Wood never comes back. I'd rather see Studenic.

Dougie is great. Siegs has been a find on 3rd pair. We need to sign Graves. The rest all of have question marks; and despite hating on Sevs (rightfully for at least half of the seasons he's been here) I'd like to have him back if he takes a hometown discount. Subban should be gone at TDL. I was high on Smith and still think he'll be good, but I don't know if he's what we need. White/Jaros and even Bahl probably don't belong (sad to say because I was Bahls deep on Bahl.)



I don't have to post my thoughts regarding this subject, I will just use yours. Thank you. BTW we have a team without goalies, that will take a few years. There will be many changes in GMs by that completion.
 

Nubmer6

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We have to get Nico some better linemates this offseason. Zacha in addition to not being productive at even strength, is not a stylistic fit IMO. Nico needs another linemate who can play off the cycle and ideally has some finishing skill.
Just wait... Zacha will get hot again for the last few weeks of the year and everyone will want to keep him around again.
 

Saugus

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Just wait... Zacha will get hot again for the last few weeks of the year and everyone will want to keep him around again.

Recency bias is a bitch, isn't it? :laugh:

But no, I think we've seen enough of him to know by this point that it's not getting any better. What you see is what you get, and what we see now is not good enough to justify his likely next contract.
 

RSeen

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Just wait... Zacha will get hot again for the last few weeks of the year and everyone will want to keep him around again.
I've wanted him traded for a while. Unfortunately this is trading low but he just isn't an effective player. I would have preferred to have traded him this past offseason.
 
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Hisch13r

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Wouldn't mind any of the nitpicking of the top two if there was an even hand. You have a No. 6 overall doing nothing for 20 games but yeah, let's light up the PPG player. Pure desperation.

Oh yeah, this one was funny enough to bookmark for the eventual regression that took place:
"Zacha’s 4 goals in 5 games and 5 points in 5 is certainly unsustainable….he’s feeding off much better players in Nico and Bratt."

But he had the most or 2nd most points on the team since the start of 19-20. I was told that meant he was good and would continue to be good.
 

billingtons ghost

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I think as of this year he's more than good enough to play on our top two lines. He hasn't been a top line guy but certainly acceptable 2nd line production, especially when you look at his minutes played. I don't expect that to be the case by sometime next year and that's okay cause his time is probably done by next Spring.

Like your optimism on this front - I DO like that when Tatar finds himself open around the net and the puck finds him, he sure knows what to do with it - but I think that is even more true of Sharangovich. I'm just tired of watching Tatar kinda float around and get knocked about off of pucks.

When I think about Miles Wood and his two or three mad rushes up the ice, I think he is the exact anti-Tatar. Someone who can generate something out of nothing by himself, but can't finish it. Tatar can generate nothing by himself but can finish.

The real question mark is what has happened to Mango? The guy seems like complete magic with Bratt + Mercer, and then 1/10th as magic with just Mercer - and then garbage with anyone else. He hasn't even really been making those occasional nice passes we were seeing all throughout the early part of the season.
 

billingtons ghost

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Depth is a major issue up front without a doubt and it an area we have to improve.

Siegs is a top 4 Dman IMO. He has been terrific this year.

Yeah I love how his game has grown. I think he could be a top4 D for us while we grow, but *hopefully* he just becomes that steady shutdown guy on the third pair.

Since Smith seems to be so much more comfortable with shutdown guys, I wonder if they ever get paired together. (despite lhd/rhd) I think it'd open Smith's game right up. He's a disaster with partners that he has to worry about pinching, or flubbing a slapper or going on a little jaunt (Subban, Severson and even Hamilton). He should be the one going on the little jaunts.
 
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Maine Fan

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Like your optimism on this front - I DO like that when Tatar finds himself open around the net and the puck finds him, he sure knows what to do with it - but I think that is even more true of Sharangovich. I'm just tired of watching Tatar kind of float around and get knocked about off of pucks.

When I think about Miles Wood and his two or three mad rushes up the ice, I think he is the exact anti-Tatar. Someone who can generate something out of nothing by himself but can't finish it. Tatar can generate nothing by himself but can end.

The real question mark is what has happened to Mango? The guy seems like complete magic with Bratt + Mercer, then 1/10th as magic with just Mercer - and then garbage with anyone else. He hasn't even really been making those occasional nice passes we were seeing throughout the early part of the season.


I would have liked to have viewed Tatar playing year after year as a top 5 on five scorers to see if he is just a finisher or a goal-scoring creator. Something must be different before the Devils. However, he has gotten better finishing as of late.
 

glenwo2

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Like your optimism on this front - I DO like that when Tatar finds himself open around the net and the puck finds him, he sure knows what to do with it - but I think that is even more true of Sharangovich. I'm just tired of watching Tatar kinda float around and get knocked about off of pucks.

When I think about Miles Wood and his two or three mad rushes up the ice, I think he is the exact anti-Tatar. Someone who can generate something out of nothing by himself, but can't finish it. Tatar can generate nothing by himself but can finish.

The real question mark is what has happened to Mango? The guy seems like complete magic with Bratt + Mercer, and then 1/10th as magic with just Mercer - and then garbage with anyone else. He hasn't even really been making those occasional nice passes we were seeing all throughout the early part of the season.

You answered your own question.

Mango needs to play on the same line as good/elite players in order to be successful.

Just like in Toronto with Matthews/Tavares and here with Bratt.

He's a bit better than the rest of the players not named Hughes/Bratt/Mercer but it seems he struggles when he does not have any of those three on his line.
 

Emperoreddy

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The thing I love about Nico is his compete level. Not necessarily his decisions with the puck. I think he'll be a terrific 2C for us for years.

I have no worries about him, nor Jack, nor Bratt - except in the health/size department, because you know they are going to be targets when games get interesting and I don't logically see how they'll be able to fight through that unless they are surrounded by guys who are hard to play against. I'm good with Mercer in all cases because he seems to be the kinda kid we need and has all kinds of confidence and talent. I can see him being a playoff mainstay.

I'm fine with Bastian/McLeod as 4th liners. Sad use of first and second rounders, but if they can form a 4th line that is one of the best in the league I'm on board with that.

The rest of the team is entirely hot garbage. All of them could have good statistical seasons if paired with Bratt or Jack - but that's the only way they will succeed here, and we need something ALOT better than what they bring because Tatar, Johnsson, Kuok, Boqvist, and Zacha are worthless if not scoring. Sharangovich *might* be a passable 3rd liner, or he might just be out of the league. I've liked him better at C this season, but there's no place for that on this team. Vesey is an ok plug on the 4th line and PK if Wood never comes back. I'd rather see Studenic.

Dougie is great. Siegs has been a find on 3rd pair. We need to sign Graves. The rest all of have question marks; and despite hating on Sevs (rightfully for at least half of the seasons he's been here) I'd like to have him back if he takes a hometown discount. Subban should be gone at TDL. I was high on Smith and still think he'll be good, but I don't know if he's what we need. White/Jaros and even Bahl probably don't belong (sad to say because I was Bahls deep on Bahl.)

Nico is a gamer. I honestly don't get how you can dislike him, it's clear he is a warrior and plays his heart out. And he is an all situation center. Offense, defense, both special teams and he is what? 22?

He absolutely is a 1C, on the lower end for sure, but still a 1C and that's perfect because we have Jack (another player you got to be blind not to see how good he is playing)

Jack is the offensive dynamo and Nico is the 2 way center. It's a great 1/2 punch.

I don't understand being down on them right now. Especially when we got plenty of dead weight on the wings to complain about.

I think Nico, Jack, and Bratt are showing the progress we all wanted to see and why despairing long term isn't necessary.
 

Emperoreddy

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Yeah I love how his game has grown. I think he could be a top4 D for us while we grow, but *hopefully* he just becomes that steady shutdown guy on the third pair.

Since Smith seems to be so much more comfortable with shutdown guys, I wonder if they ever get paired together. (despite lhd/rhd) I think it'd open Smith's game right up. He's a disaster with partners that he has to worry about pinching, or flubbing a slapper or going on a little jaunt (Subban, Severson and even Hamilton). He should be the one going on the little jaunts.

Dano actually made a correct point a month ago that Smith needs to be kind of aggressive and active offensively to feel good at his game.

If he isn't grooving and scoring he confidence goes down and he seems more prone to mistakes.

I think whatever injury caused him to miss camp is still lingering.
 

StevenToddIves

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I would be shocked if Johnsson is traded, I don’t see us retaining salary on him.

Trading Zacha doesn’t seem likely at all unless it’s some unforeseeable hockey trade. I don’t see a contender trading for him.

I feel like Subban’s extensive playoff experience might draw interest. 96 playoff games is a lot and he’s been in a Conference Final and Stanley Cup Final.

His actual salary being so little should lower the cost of a second team retaining salary. Not sure what the return is but I assume we do it if it’s possible.

Severson is unlikely, most contenders don’t have 4.16m cap space to spare next season and we’re probably not that enthusiastic about retaining on half his 5.1m salary.

I think he potentially could get a lot from a team like Toronto that desperately needs an upgrade their right side.

The X factor: what other RD is on the market. I assume Braun (Flyers) is but is Ristolainen too? (Man, that was a 2021 14th pick and a 2023 2nd not well spent.)

Pysyk (Buffalo) and Lybushkin (Arizona). Manson (Ducks)? Some of these guys aren’t as good but cheaper, some are more straight-up pure defensive shut-down types that teams might be looking for.

There would pretty much have to be bidding war for Severson to get the kind of return that would make it worth it, which is what happened with Coleman. The market shapes these trades.

The best time to trade Zacha is the off-season. Regardless of the negativity he gets from some posters, big fast & versatile wingers with that kind of shot are highly coveted by NHL teams. I would not be shocked if he were dealt, but it would likely be around the draft.

I do not see Severson traded at the draft or the deadline. He's a good value at his salary, he's popular with the team and management, and he's a good player at a position where it's tough to find good players.

Subban will almost certainly be traded at the deadline, and what the Devils get in return is likely dependent on how much salary NJ retains. If the Devils retain $8 million and send him to a team which really (really, really) needs him like Toronto, a first round pick in return is not out of the question.

I agree with you on the RD available -- none of them are even in Subban's league. Manson is good for what he is and will command some return, but Lybushkin is pretty much a body out there and Pysyk is just plain awful. If Braun hits the market, he'll have good value, as well.

I feel both Johnsson and Tatar will be available for the right offer. As they're both under contract for non-oppressive amounts next year, I'd say either can be had for the right offer. If I'm Tom Fitzgerald, I hold out for a late 1st-rounder for Tatar or a late 2nd/early 3rd round pick for Johnsson, because why not? There's no imperative need to trade either, but either can be considered expendable.

I think the interesting trade scenario may be Ty Smith. I can see a team like Calgary making a play for him, they need better puck-movers from that blueline and Smith hails from their backyard. Maybe they think they can turn him around under Darryl Sutter. The Devils are so loaded with LD prospects that Smith might be a way to fill other holes in the system.
 

StevenToddIves

Registered User
May 18, 2013
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Brooklyn, NY
The issue with Tatar is really not himself but we didn't a player of his style (maybe it is him lol), we needed someone like Saad. It does blow we missed out on him, he would have helped out immensely.

I would call Columbus about Boqvist, see if they would be interested in uniting him and his brother. They might.

I've mentioned the idea of a Boqvist trade to Columbus before. The Blue Jackets are organizationally paper-thin at center and Jesper's brother Adam is one of the centerpieces of the Columbus rebuild. I'd trade Boqvist straight up for Stanislav Svozil in a heartbeat if we could hoodwink their front office into that.
 
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