Devils 2021-22 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XII

[Lou is God]

I've heard rumors of PK to his hometown Toronto, that might make sense for them.

 

[Devils731]

I've heard rumors of PK to his hometown Toronto, that might make sense for them.

Toronto has under a million in cap space at the deadline. PK’s cap hit will be between $4.5 - 9 million.

I don’t see what salary dumping Toronto would find worthwhile to add a bottom pairing defenseman like Subban.

Kerfoot probably would have been a dump candidate but he’s performing this year so they won’t want to move him.

So I’m not sure how Toronto can add Subban and actually improve their team.

 

[JrFischer54]

Shara wasn’t better last season.
View attachment 500307

You could have been hoping for a bigger step forward or something, but he’s been fine after and rocky start where he played on lines with half of the staff in the Prudential Center.

He makes defensive mistakes at times but he did that last season.

he’s going to finish the year with about 14 goals and 30pts. Bleh the devils are a team loaded with those types of talent. They need quality talent

 

[Lou is God]

Toronto has under a million in cap space at the deadline. PK’s cap hit will be between $4.5 - 9 million.

I don’t see what salary dumping Toronto would find worthwhile to add a bottom pairing defenseman like Subban.

Kerfoot probably would have been a dump candidate but he’s performing this year so they won’t want to move him.

So I’m not sure how Toronto can add Subban and actually improve their team.

I counted 19 games left on the Leafs schedule after the trading deadline, so wouldn't his cap hit be only a 1/4 of the $9M?

 

[Devils731]

I counted 19 games left on the Leafs schedule after the trading deadline, so wouldn't his cap hit be only a 1/4 of the $9M?

I don’t use CapFriendly too much but by the blurbs I believe CapFriendly is trying to convert the daily numbers to the annual equivalent; so I think Toronto is projected to only be able to take on slightly under $1 million in annual cap hits at the deadline.

Toronto Maple Leafs Salary Cap, Draft Picks, and Player Contracts - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Mgd31]

https://thehockeywriters.com/devils-blackwood-struggles-2021-22-season/

Its really absurd how bad Blackwood has been and compare that Shesterkin, they aren't even playing in the same league.

 

[AfroThunder396]

I get that we're all frustrated, but this isn't the time to strip mine the team. I firmly believe that if you took this exact forward roster and inserted an NHL average goalie we'd be right at the bubble and finish right where we expected to be this season.

I would banish Zacha and try to flip depth guys like Vesey/Kuokkanen/Boqvist (who I don't think will be here long term). Get something for Subban if you can, which seems unlikely. Other than that, do everything in your power to get a goalie - sign, trade, whatever. We're closer than you think.

I would also try to get a real veteran 3C, a big defensive guy in the mold of a Bryan Boyle but a better skater. Would help with team defense/faceoffs and free Mercer up to play wing in the top-6, which is IMO a better use of his talent.

 

[JimEIV]

I'm just going to chime in here and remind anyone daft enough to be slagging Jack Hughes that he's been 100% healthy in just 8 games this year -- the opener and the 7 games since the Xmas break. In those 8 games, Jack has 6 goals and 9 assists for 15 points. Jack Hughes is not yet old enough to drink a beer in the USA. What exactly do people want from the kid?

He definitely has improved his production so far this year, I think there are still some issues in his game but I leave that for another time...

The real problem is he hasn't done it over a prolonged period...He had excellent stretches in his rookie year and his sophomore coupled with large swaths of poor play in both years...So I don't think still being a skeptic after 21 games with good offensive production is unreasonable.

His rookie year he had 9 of his 21 points in an 8 game stretch of 61 played.
His sophomore year he had 11 of 31 points in his first 13 games of 56 played - A little better but after those first 13 he had 5 points in his next 22 games

This year he has an excellent 21 point in 21 games - but in his last 3 he has 1 assist and 8 of his 21 games played this season he's had no points - So you can still see elements of bunches and inconsistencies...

But what do I want from the Kid? Here are some more recent 20 year old seasons - I would like to see something in this range. So the median here 76.5 games and 75.5 points.

Barzal - 85 points -82 games
Malkin - 85 points - 78 games
Kopitar 77 points - 82 games
Bergeron 72 points - 81 games
Pasternak 70 points - 75 games
P. Kane 70 points - 80 games
Toews 69 points - 82 games
Marner 69 points - 82 games
Taveras 67 points - 79 games
Petterson 66 points - 71 games


- 21 points in 21 games is certainly the right direction - There are 44 games remaining so the most he can get is 65 games played. If he can get to 50 points in 65 games played I would call that a major success - It would show a more consistent level of production and the potential for something larger...The worst case scenario in my opinion is he goes on a 10+ game streak with little or no points -

He only has one secondary assist in last 3 games - That absolutely cannot turn into 10 or 15 or we have a problem.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Zacha - An equivalent change of scenery forward. Dylan Strome? Filip Zadina?
Johnsson - Hold until next year
Severson - Hold, unless someone offers you a 1st+
Subban - Literally anything

I think Toronto would offer a 1st plus one of Amirov/Robertson for Severson at 50% personally, similar to the Coleman trade, or at least they should. I mean they gave away a first plus for Nick Foligno last year.

 

[My3Sons]

He definitely has improved his production so far this year, I think there are still some issues in his game but I leave that for another time...

The real problem is he hasn't done it over a prolonged period...He had excellent stretches in his rookie year and his sophomore couple with large swaths of poor play in both years...So I don't think still being a skeptic after 21 games with good offensive production is unreasonable.

His rookie year he had 9 of his 21 points in an 8 game stretch of 61 played.
His sophomore year he had 11 of 31 points in his first 13 games of 56 played - A little better but after those first 13 he had 5 points in his next 22 games

This year he has an excellent 21 point in 21 games - but in his last 3 he has 1 assist and 8 of his 21 games played this season he's had no points - So you can still see elements of bunches and inconsistencies...

But what do I want from the Kid? Here are some more recent 20 year old seasons - I would like to see something in this range. So the median here 76.5 games and 75.5 points.

Barzal - 85 points -82 games
Malkin - 85 points - 78 games
Kopitar 77 points - 82 games
Bergeron 72 points - 81 games
Pasternak 70 points - 75 games
P. Kane 70 points - 80 games
Toews 69 points - 82 games
Marner 69 points - 82 games
Taveras 67 points - 79 games
Petterson 66 points - 71 games


- 21 points in 21 games is certainly the right direction - There are 44 games remaining so the most he can get is 65 games played. If he can get to 50 points in 65 games played I would call that a major success - It would show a more consistent level of production and the potential for something larger...The worst case scenario in my opinion is he goes on a 10+ game streak with little or no points -

He only has one secondary assist in last 3 games - That absolutely cannot turn into 10 or 15 or we have a problem.

that sounds fair and reasonable.

 

[Mgd31]

Zacha - An equivalent change of scenery forward. Dylan Strome? Filip Zadina?
Johnsson - Hold until next year
Severson - Hold, unless someone offers you a 1st+
Subban - Literally anything

Dylan Strome could be cool (not sure how good he is really), because we can then move Mercer to Hischier's wing and let them cook together.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

I get that we're all frustrated, but this isn't the time to strip mine the team. I firmly believe that if you took this exact forward roster and inserted an NHL average goalie we'd be right at the bubble and finish right where we expected to be this season.

I would banish Zacha and try to flip depth guys like Vesey/Kuokkanen/Boqvist (who I don't think will be here long term). Get something for Subban if you can, which seems unlikely. Other than that, do everything in your power to get a goalie - sign, trade, whatever. We're closer than you think.

I would also try to get a real veteran 3C, a big defensive guy in the mold of a Bryan Boyle but a better skater. Would help with team defense/faceoffs and free Mercer up to play wing in the top-6, which is IMO a better use of his talent.

I totally agree. i think Fitzgerald could look like a genius just by running the exact same roster out next season. Hire a new coaching staff, bring in another quality backup or 1B goalie, have some “i believe in these players” press conference, let another prospect or two take a spot, sit back and smoke a cigar.

 

[JimEIV]

I get that we're all frustrated, but this isn't the time to strip mine the team. I firmly believe that if you took this exact forward roster and inserted an NHL average goalie we'd be right at the bubble and finish right where we expected to be this season.

I would banish Zacha and try to flip depth guys like Vesey/Kuokkanen/Boqvist (who I don't think will be here long term). Get something for Subban if you can, which seems unlikely. Other than that, do everything in your power to get a goalie - sign, trade, whatever. We're closer than you think.

I would also try to get a real veteran 3C, a big defensive guy in the mold of a Bryan Boyle but a better skater. Would help with team defense/faceoffs and free Mercer up to play wing in the top-6, which is IMO a better use of his talent.

I am almost positive I have seen others says the SAME EXACT thing in each of the previous 3 years.

 

[StevenToddIves]

He definitely has improved his production so far this year, I think there are still some issues in his game but I leave that for another time...

The real problem is he hasn't done it over a prolonged period...He had excellent stretches in his rookie year and his sophomore coupled with large swaths of poor play in both years...So I don't think still being a skeptic after 21 games with good offensive production is unreasonable.

His rookie year he had 9 of his 21 points in an 8 game stretch of 61 played.
His sophomore year he had 11 of 31 points in his first 13 games of 56 played - A little better but after those first 13 he had 5 points in his next 22 games

This year he has an excellent 21 point in 21 games - but in his last 3 he has 1 assist and 8 of his 21 games played this season he's had no points - So you can still see elements of bunches and inconsistencies...

But what do I want from the Kid? Here are some more recent 20 year old seasons - I would like to see something in this range. So the median here 76.5 games and 75.5 points.

Barzal - 85 points -82 games
Malkin - 85 points - 78 games
Kopitar 77 points - 82 games
Bergeron 72 points - 81 games
Pasternak 70 points - 75 games
P. Kane 70 points - 80 games
Toews 69 points - 82 games
Marner 69 points - 82 games
Taveras 67 points - 79 games
Petterson 66 points - 71 games


- 21 points in 21 games is certainly the right direction - There are 44 games remaining so the most he can get is 65 games played. If he can get to 50 points in 65 games played I would call that a major success - It would show a more consistent level of production and the potential for something larger...The worst case scenario in my opinion is he goes on a 10+ game streak with little or no points -

He only has one secondary assist in last 3 games - That absolutely cannot turn into 10 or 15 or we have a problem.

I've been doing draft analysis/writing for many years. I wrote recently on one of the draft boards that I believe Jack Hughes will be remembered as the best #1 overall pick between Auston Matthews and Conor Bedard. Again, I repeat that he's been 100% healthy in 8 games this year, and in those games he has 6 goals and 9 assists for 15 points.

I worry about your sense of pessimism when you you counter with the fact that he has one assist in the past 3 games and the line: "that absolutely can't turn into 10 or 15 games or we have a problem". What about Jack Hughes actual play would make you even worry about that? The fact that he didn't actually score on the ridiculous between the legs move he pulled last game? The fact that his most absurd highlight-reel pass of the game turned into Bratt getting stoned on a great save by the Arizona goalie?

I don't know what to say to you except things like "turn that frown upside-down". The Devils certainly have a litany of problems, but I don't see any way we can count Jack Hughes' progress or play among them. Every indication, both visual and statistical, indicates he's well on his way to stardom. Don't worry, be happy.

 

[captainscott]

I totally agree. i think Fitzgerald could look like a genius just by running the exact same roster out next season. Hire a new coaching staff, bring in another quality backup or 1B goalie, have some “i believe in these players” press conference, let another prospect or two take a spot, sit back and smoke a cigar.

i think we have our backup goalie his came is blackwood we need a starting goalie

 

[captainscott]

It really is a shame how badly Ty has fallen off from his rookie year. I really hope he can find his game again.

hes played much better as of late.. he looks like an NHL defensman ... where as in the beginning of season I had my doubts.. he is a servicable 4/5 guy right now at worst. so not worried at the moment.

 

[Lou is God]

I've been doing draft analysis/writing for many years. I wrote recently on one of the draft boards that I believe Jack Hughes will be remembered as the best #1 overall pick between Auston Matthews and Conor Bedard. Again, I repeat that he's been 100% healthy in 8 games this year, and in those games he has 6 goals and 9 assists for 15 points.

I worry about your sense of pessimism when you you counter with the fact that he has one assist in the past 3 games and the line: "that absolutely can't turn into 10 or 15 games or we have a problem". What about Jack Hughes actual play would make you even worry about that? The fact that he didn't actually score on the ridiculous between the legs move he pulled last game? The fact that his most absurd highlight-reel pass of the game turned into Bratt getting stoned on a great save by the Arizona goalie?

I don't know what to say to you except things like "turn that frown upside-down". The Devils certainly have a litany of problems, but I don't see any way we can count Jack Hughes' progress or play among them. Every indication, both visual and statistical, indicates he's well on his way to stardom. Don't worry, be happy.

Here is the thing, there is going to be some who will always move the goal posts on Jack no matter what he does. Just watch.

 

[Azathoth]

He definitely has improved his production so far this year, I think there are still some issues in his game but I leave that for another time...

The real problem is he hasn't done it over a prolonged period...He had excellent stretches in his rookie year and his sophomore coupled with large swaths of poor play in both years...So I don't think still being a skeptic after 21 games with good offensive production is unreasonable.

His rookie year he had 9 of his 21 points in an 8 game stretch of 61 played.
His sophomore year he had 11 of 31 points in his first 13 games of 56 played - A little better but after those first 13 he had 5 points in his next 22 games

This year he has an excellent 21 point in 21 games - but in his last 3 he has 1 assist and 8 of his 21 games played this season he's had no points - So you can still see elements of bunches and inconsistencies...

But what do I want from the Kid? Here are some more recent 20 year old seasons - I would like to see something in this range. So the median here 76.5 games and 75.5 points.

Barzal - 85 points -82 games
Malkin - 85 points - 78 games
Kopitar 77 points - 82 games
Bergeron 72 points - 81 games
Pasternak 70 points - 75 games
P. Kane 70 points - 80 games
Toews 69 points - 82 games
Marner 69 points - 82 games
Taveras 67 points - 79 games
Petterson 66 points - 71 games


- 21 points in 21 games is certainly the right direction - There are 44 games remaining so the most he can get is 65 games played. If he can get to 50 points in 65 games played I would call that a major success - It would show a more consistent level of production and the potential for something larger...The worst case scenario in my opinion is he goes on a 10+ game streak with little or no points -

He only has one secondary assist in last 3 games - That absolutely cannot turn into 10 or 15 or we have a problem.

This is a pretty fair assessment of Hughes' expectations. I think for the last 3 games where he only has an assist, Bratt was out for for the Columbus and Islanders games (although it would be totally fair to point out that Jack should be able to generate points regardless of linemates). He did put up 13 shots in those games so hopefully the multipoint games will be back in short order if he keeps getting pucks to the net.

 

[captainscott]

Wow Nico showing some true frustration in the press conference yesterday. Must have come into the game rested and full of hope to whoop some A. Unfortunately half the team was in couch-potato not warrior mood.

Loved to see how Nico cares though. Nice emotions.

Overall the team is pretty soft though and we could need some more folks with rough edges. Bratt, Damon, Jack, Pavel, etc too many nice guys

Nico is more the mold of what this team needs. his game isn't as flashy as some want but he plays it right. a good hockey player... we are in good shape with him and jack just have to add the parts around them.. fitz has to make some moves.. starting in net.. i like where our defense is at... we need a couple more forwards that break the mold.

guys i would look to move in a trade:

subban
zacha
johnsson

I don't hate any of them but we need different style players. and personally i would sign vesey to 2-3 year deal on the cheap. he is a solid 3rd or 4th liner that is playing well with some size. i like his game ... he isn't an offensive guy but is perfect role player..

 

[JimEIV]

I've been doing draft analysis/writing for many years. I wrote recently on one of the draft boards that I believe Jack Hughes will be remembered as the best #1 overall pick between Auston Matthews and Conor Bedard. Again, I repeat that he's been 100% healthy in 8 games this year, and in those games he has 6 goals and 9 assists for 15 points.

I worry about your sense of pessimism when you you counter with the fact that he has one assist in the past 3 games and the line: "that absolutely can't turn into 10 or 15 games or we have a problem". What about Jack Hughes actual play would make you even worry about that? The fact that he didn't actually score on the ridiculous between the legs move he pulled last game? The fact that his most absurd highlight-reel pass of the game turned into Bratt getting stoned on a great save by the Arizona goalie?

I don't know what to say to you except things like "turn that frown upside-down". The Devils certainly have a litany of problems, but I don't see any way we can count Jack Hughes' progress or play among them. Every indication, both visual and statistical, indicates he's well on his way to stardom. Don't worry, be happy.

It has literally happen in each of his previous two season(Which is his whole career)...Really badly.....

Rookie year 1/14/2020 through March 10th 2020, 24 games - 4 points Jack Hughes 2019-20 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

Last year February 23rd 2021 through April 2nd 2021 - 22 games 5 points - Jack Hughes 2020-21 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

And it wasn't just the lack of production it was really poor play.

 

[Devs3cups]

This is a pretty fair assessment of Hughes' expectations. I think for the last 3 games where he only has an assist, Bratt was out for for the Columbus and Islanders games (although it would be totally fair to point out that Jack should be able to generate points regardless of linemates). He did put up 13 shots in those games so hopefully the multipoint games will be back in short order if he keeps getting pucks to the net.

His play in those games was also pretty good. Against NY, he created a play on the PP that led to Bastian's goal. And against CLB, he played physical, directly created the Vesey goal, and made a stellar cross ice pass to Nico who got absolutely robbed at the end of the 2nd on the PP. Could've had way more points with better finishing from his wingers.

I know, I know, "shoula, coulda, wouldas" don't mean anything, but right now, Jack is a PPG player and I see him creating scoring chances (that often don't get capitalized on) for his linemates on a nightly basis, that's what I want to see from him.

 

[JimEIV]

His play in those games was also pretty good. Against NY, he created a play on the PP that led to Bastian's goal. And against CLB, he played physical, directly created the Vesey goal, and made a stellar cross ice pass to Nico who got absolutely robbed at the end of the 2nd on the PP. Could've had way more points with better finishing from his wingers.

I know, I know, "shoula, coulda, wouldas" don't mean anything, but right now, Jack is a PPG player and I see him creating scoring chances (that often don't get capitalized on) for his linemates on a nightly basis, that's what I want to see from him.

He wasn't good against the Islanders...His line was on the ice for 2 of the 3 goal - He was late picking up the point man on the second goal (2:45) and Sharangovich did a terrible job picking up the man in front of the net.

And on the game winner both Jack and Sharangovich both went to one man leaving the center of the ice wide open for the Barzal goal (4:16)




That horrific D play coupled with 0 points is not a good game

 

[JrFischer54]

I get that we're all frustrated, but this isn't the time to strip mine the team. I firmly believe that if you took this exact forward roster and inserted an NHL average goalie we'd be right at the bubble and finish right where we expected to be this season.

I would banish Zacha and try to flip depth guys like Vesey/Kuokkanen/Boqvist (who I don't think will be here long term). Get something for Subban if you can, which seems unlikely. Other than that, do everything in your power to get a goalie - sign, trade, whatever. We're closer than you think.

I would also try to get a real veteran 3C, a big defensive guy in the mold of a Bryan Boyle but a better skater. Would help with team defense/faceoffs and free Mercer up to play wing in the top-6, which is IMO a better use of his talent.

even with a good nhl goalie this team isn’t scoring enough to be a playoff contender. There just isn’t enough talent up front.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Holy nitpicking.

 

[JrFischer54]

I think Toronto would offer a 1st plus one of Amirov/Robertson for Severson at 50% personally, similar to the Coleman trade, or at least they should. I mean they gave away a first plus for Nick Foligno last year.

the first would be late and I don’t want anymore firsts. Are those kids amirov Robertson legit blue chip prospects? Done with first rounders. I want kids that are on the cusp on breaking into the nhl. It sounds silly but the devils don’t need anymore first round picks unless they are in the top 10. With this timeline they need former first round picks that have matured in the minors and ready to contribute at the nhl level.