Devils 2020-21 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part VIII

[Nicomo Cosca]

where is the man of men Kakko ranked?

9th. One behind Jack.

 

[MartyOwns]

where is the man of men Kakko ranked?

mr. manly man ranked right after hughes (as usual) at number 9.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

The rangers would trade kakko for Nico straight up and not think twice about it. I like Pronman, but i do think he’s a pure prospects guy and loves kids that aren’t in the league yet or haven’t proven much in the league since he usually projects them around best case scenario, whereas guys actually playing in the league for a bit show kind of what they will be already. Robert Thomas over Nico is stunning, i know he loves Perfetti (had him 4th in his rankings i think) so that’s not as shocking to have above Nico. But i would love to see what GM in the league would rather have Robert Thomas than Nico.

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

I think it's time to give a few of the prospects a long look and the upcoming expansion draft (along with reasonable expectations for this upcoming season) plays a role in that.

As you mentioned, Kuokkanen would need to be protected in the expansion draft (which is part of the reason I think Carolina dealt him, as they knew he would have to be exposed). Merkley, McLeod & Bastian also need to be protected. As do Seney, Sharangovich & Studenic (though it's highly unlikely Seattle would select any of these 3 players).

Nico, Bratt, Johnsson & Zacha account for 4 of the 7 forward spots. Wood most likely accounts for a 5th spot, though I don't think that's 100% definite. Palmieri is a toss-up depending on whether or not he gets resigned. As I mentioned in another thread, Zajac absolutely should not be protected. Either he wants to chase a Cup and gets dealt at the deadline or you wait to resign him until after the expansion draft.

That leaves 1-3 slots for any new additions and/or Kuokkanen, Merkley, McLeod or Bastian to fill. All 4 guys should be given a good shot to see what they can do in the NHL this season to help make the decision easier.

I know that Merkley requires waivers to be sent down, so that gives him an advantage in making the team out of camp. Does anybody know the waiver status on the rest of these guys?

I think Kuokkanen will be taken if not protected I believe He's a Ron Francis pick....If you look at last years trades the Canes were trading Francis picks I think Gauthier who went to the Rangers was a Francis pick too,,,,,

 

[My3Sons]

The rangers would trade kakko for Nico straight up and not think twice about it. I like Pronman, but i do think he’s a pure prospects guy and loves kids that aren’t in the league yet or haven’t proven much in the league since he usually projects them around best case scenario, whereas guys actually playing in the league for a bit show kind of what they will be already. Robert Thomas over Nico is stunning, i know he loves Perfetti (had him 4th in his rankings i think) so that’s not as shocking to have above Nico. But i would love to see what GM in the league would rather have Robert Thomas than Nico.

I guess he sees Thomas as having a bit more flash in his passing game? That said let’s switch Thomas and Nico and see how well Thomas does against the other team’s best players shift after shift game after game without a safety net like ROR and Tarasenko to pick up the slack.

 

[Nicomo Cosca]

Nico would probably look pretty amazing on a good team. He’s asked to do a lot in NJ.

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

So the more I read, I'm seeing a trade with Tampa for Killorn and Cernak as a distinct possibility. If we did get Killorn, would you guys put him on the 1st line? How would you see the lines shaking out in general?

He's not top a line forward but he is one of those guys that can go up or down and contribute....I honestly think he'd be good on Hughes's wing....I'd much rather if we made that trade going for Killorn as he has two years less of term than TJ....what he brings is very tradeable as a deadline option as well and we have too many guys we need to see at center....Of course Cernak is the key in that deal and what he brings to the table.....I know there's risk there because of the team he plays on but he plays a good defensive game and is very physical likes to hit people and he will fight.... the devils need someone that will bring that to the team it's lacking and they need it for their young guys who are on the smaller side.....If you have guys like him other players tend to play a more honest game......

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

I didnt realize his deal was up! ThoughI full well expect him to get a 1-2 year cheap deal as our main veteran in the bottom-6

He is still too good defensively and in the locker room to just let go. He would retire a Devil if he could choose and I feel he will get the chance to after another year or two

If he were to leave (as well as Palmieri at the deadline) wed have no forward on the roster over the age of 28. Not to mention I think he can and has been great for Nico and maybe Jack as well

He has been a great Devil but Lou vastly overpaid him and that NMC was the Huge cherry on top, a boulder for us....No offense but there is no way you bring him back...

 

[TrufleShufle]

He has been a great Devil but Lou vastly overpaid him and that NMC was the Huge cherry on top, a boulder for us....No offense but there is no way you bring him back...

Well, we have two years with left with Subban and Crawford's hits. If next season he wants to come back on a cheap one year and no one emerges as a solid defensive 3/4c who can take his spot on the PK while also finding more to add to it. It would be silly not to take him back for a year. Beyond that, it would be silly to commit.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I think Kuokkanen will be taken if not protected I believe He's a Ron Francis pick....If you look at last years trades the Canes were trading Francis picks I think Gauthier who went to the Rangers was a Francis pick too,,,,,

I love Julien Gauthier and I was pissed when the Rangers traded for him. Hope he has a great career but awful performances against us.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

He has been a great Devil but Lou vastly overpaid him and that NMC was the Huge cherry on top, a boulder for us....No offense but there is no way you bring him back...

I’d take him back in a heartbeat to play the same role he’ll be playing next year, which is a bottom #6 defensive center who’s our main option on the PK.

 

[Guttersniped]

Sorry I dropped this, "/s."

I got that it was sarcasm btw, I actually was going to post a Mean Girls gif response but I ended up pontificating for four paragraphs on Tampa’s cap instead because that’s how I roll. I’m fun like that. (And wordy. So very wordy.)

 

[Bleedred]

I’d take him back in a heartbeat to play the same role he’ll be playing next year, which is a bottom #6 defensive center who’s our main option on the PK.

I may or may not. Depends what he does this coming year.

He probably has one more year left in him after this coming year, but I’m not quite sure he has another left after that. Especially when you consider there aren’t a ton of 37 year old forwards left in the NHL , which is what he’ll be in the 2022-2023 season.

 

[Guttersniped]

When did I say the Devils were actively trying to move him?

Yeah, as much as I’d love to beat you up FOR WANTING TO TRADE OUR TRAVIS YOU HEARTLESS FIEND Fitz presumably asked him if he would waive for deadline and Lou could have asked about his availability. We traded Greene on February 16th and the Pageau trade didn’t happen until 24th so guessing Lou isn’t a huge leap of logic since Pageau wasn’t a rental either.

That said, a major selling point for Pageau is his playoff scoring and the Isles desperately needed that too. Ironically, trading for Travis could have saved them from that Pageau contract that’s looking a bit rough even if he’s only 27 with the new flat cap economics and their pile of forward contracts.

It doesn’t mean Fitz was “if you waive, pack your shit and share an Uber with Andy”. I still really want Zajac to retire a Devil at this point. We don’t have any other defensive centers, at least none that are still learning the part, so I believe he could survive the TDL. Or I’m deluding myself to feel better, whatever works at this point.

 

[MauDevils]

In his defense, Zajac never looked the same after that achilles injury.

It was bad timing to give out that contract before seeing him come back to form.

 

[Triumph]

Lou had to give Zajac that contract because otherwise he didn't have a team left. He had Henrique and ??? at center. It's no accident that it was the first contract signed after the 2012-13 lockout.

After 2014-15 it looked like an absolute disaster but has settled into being a mild failure which is about as good as you can hope for.

 

[Blackjack]

Lou had to give Zajac that contract because otherwise he didn't have a team left. He had Henrique and ??? at center. It's no accident that it was the first contract signed after the 2012-13 lockout.

After 2014-15 it looked like an absolute disaster but has settled into being a mild failure which is about as good as you can hope for.

NJ Devils post lockout: a mild failure is about as good as you can hope for.

 

[AfroThunder396]

"Retiring a Devil" doesn't mean anything to me at this point after watching Marty wear a St. Louis Blues uniform.

Out of respect you talk to these guys and try to accommodate their wishes as best you can. But if someone wants to offer us something that helps the team, then sorry Trav, pack your shit. Sentimentalism can't get in the way of building this team.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

This has been the most boring couple weeks of free agency ever. I knew it would be slow but there’s just nothing. I need news!

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

Lou had to give Zajac that contract because otherwise he didn't have a team left. He had Henrique and ??? at center. It's no accident that it was the first contract signed after the 2012-13 lockout.

After 2014-15 it looked like an absolute disaster but has settled into being a mild failure which is about as good as you can hope for.

The Devils had also just lost Parise and Clarkson to their hometown teams, and the NHL had just expanded to pending-free-agent Zajac's hometown in Winnipeg.

Questioning the merits of giving Zajac that contract is peak hindsight bias.

 

[Guttersniped]

He's not top a line forward but he is one of those guys that can go up or down and contribute....I honestly think he'd be good on Hughes's wing....I'd much rather if we made that trade going for Killorn as he has two years less of term than TJ....what he brings is very tradeable as a deadline option as well and we have too many guys we need to see at center....Of course Cernak is the key in that deal and what he brings to the table.....I know there's risk there because of the team he plays on but he plays a good defensive game and is very physical likes to hit people and he will fight.... the devils need someone that will bring that to the team it's lacking and they need it for their young guys who are on the smaller side.....If you have guys like him other players tend to play a more honest game......

Tyler Johnson, turned 30 in July, short, 4 years/5m. Only owed 17.75m in salary (helps), makes 3.75m this year (helps) and 5.5m next season. (hurts).

Alex Killorn, turns 32 in September, 3 years/4.45m, just makes 4.45m every year but he’s 6’1” his nickname is “Killer” so that helps. (I’m assuming the nickname is because of his last name but it’s a fun touch.)

Killorn is more tempting to me despite his age because he’s good defensively and scores EV throughout their line-up. His goals are artificially up though, his shooting % was bonkers this year and he got on their PP1 as well. He’s really more of 18-20 goal guy on Tampa every year.

I wouldn’t give up any good assets for him alone, certainly not the NYI 2nd or whatever, not in this market but I’d consider taking him because he’d be a useful vet and brings elements we need.

Johnson is used now as scoring winger but his production is going down and he would only really make sense for a team lacking scoring centers. We have Zacha, he was a temp 2C last year when Hughes was dumped on Nico’s wing so we don’t need to take that contract because just Johnson is a better back-up plan than that. It’s not worth it. Also Tampa fans say his shot never really recovered after he broke his wrist in the playoffs years ago.

 

[Guttersniped]

"Retiring a Devil" doesn't mean anything to me at this point after watching Marty wear a St. Louis Blues uniform.

Out of respect you talk to these guys and try to accommodate their wishes as best you can. But if someone wants to offer us something that helps the team, then sorry Trav, pack your shit. Sentimentalism can't get in the way of building this team.

Because of his full NTC it’s really up to Zajac. You’re right about trades in general and Fitz got here in 2015 so it’s not like he even has a lengthy personal history with Travis. Brodeur’s situation was a mess but most of the people involved are gone, but you can look at Greene. He’s reportedly going to sign a bargain deal with Lou, that’s where his attachments ended up. I won’t argue that my sentimental attachment to him actually plays a part here but Travis may not waive and I think the TDL will suck anyway in terms of returns so it’s not like we’ll miss out on a 1st. (And I’d like him to retire a Devil, so sue me.)

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

Tyler Johnson, turned 30 in July, short, 4 years/5m. Only owed 17.75m in salary (helps), makes 3.75m this year (helps) and 5.5m next season. (hurts).

Alex Killorn, turns 32 in September, 3 years/4.45m, just makes 4.45m every year but he’s 6’1” his nickname is “Killer” so that helps. (I’m assuming the nickname is because of his last name but it’s a fun touch.)

Killorn is more tempting to me despite his age because he’s good defensively and scores EV throughout their line-up. His goals are artificially up though, his shooting % was bonkers this year and he got on their PP1 as well. He’s really more of 18-20 goal guy on Tampa every year.

I wouldn’t give up any good assets for him alone, certainly not the NYI 2nd or whatever, not in this market but I’d consider taking him because he’d be a useful vet and brings elements we need.

Johnson is used now as scoring winger but his production is going down and he would only really make sense for a team lacking scoring centers. We have Zacha, he was a temp 2C last year when Hughes was dumped on Nico’s wing so we don’t need to take that contract because just Johnson is a better back-up plan than that. It’s not worth it. Also Tampa fans say his shot never really recovered after he broke his wrist in the playoffs years ago.

Agree the trade is centered on Cernak though not Killorn without Cernak I wouldn't want either AK or TJ....Just think if it was to happen I'd take Killorn for the reasons you state he fits our team better with 2 yrs less of term and brings more all around to game to deal at as a deadline deal unless were competing for a spot as playoff spot as well.

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

I’d take him back in a heartbeat to play the same role he’ll be playing next year, which is a bottom #6 defensive center who’s our main option on the PK.

Ok but you now lose another year to use that spot to see what your younger guys could do....See if any could stick or how far their game has grown.....Imagine if the expansion draft was this past summer we would of had to protect him because of that NMC that would have sucked big time.....So I'm glad his contract ends and we don't have to protect him.....Good player great team guy but they need to see what these other guys have to offer once he is off the roster not bring him back imo.....let those young guys put up or shut up......He is probably destined along with Andy Greene to get a shot to come back as assistants or within the organization at some point.

 

[Guttersniped]

I guess he sees Thomas as having a bit more flash in his passing game? That said let’s switch Thomas and Nico and see how well Thomas does against the other team’s best players shift after shift game after game without a safety net like ROR and Tarasenko to pick up the slack.

I would switch Nico and Thomas for this very reason, Thomas plays against nobody.

Honestly this ranking is worth it because there’s five more players (three more centers!) before Nick Suzuki finally appears so Hab fans must be rioting over that gross injustice. They never shut up about him.