Devils 2020-21 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part III

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

Zadorov for a 2nd is a massive overpay, Zadorov is an arb-eligible D making $3.2M. The Devils should be able to get him for free.

Straight swap for Mirco Mueller. Same age and will save Colorado approx $2m in cap.

I’m all for getting new D personnel next season, but we need to get rid of some deadwood. If want Zadorov, then Mueller is expendable. I actually with the arrival of Ty Smith that Butcher is expendable and we should trade him for a bigger D or 2nd round pick.

 

[Al Belin]

Rangers could regress, easily. This is not a good team. They are in the same boat as us.

I don't see how a flukey lottery win makes them enviable. I seriously doubt they were too bothered when we picked up Hughes in similar fashion last year...

I agree with that. I don't think the Rangers care one bit what the Devils are doing. I think they are fine letting the Devils continue with the new "status quo".

But this isnt JUST about the Rangers. I brought the Rangers up as a comparison. @Zajacs Bowl Cut listed all the times that the Rangers capitalized on assets that the Devils don't have (players) to accelerate their build. Cap space is THE asset the Rangers, as well as almost the whole rest of the league doesnt have and the Devils do.

Letting that cap space go un-used and turnover every year is equivalent to the Rangers deciding to just not trade Nash and let him walk in UFA. And the fact that the Rangers did NOT do that is being sold to menow as the reason they have raced ahead in the rebuild. So wht is it that the Devils are ok doing just that with their cap space, esp when deals like this are obviously out there?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

its much, much easier to trade players on expiring deals at the deadline for 1st round picks than it is to "weaponize" cap space consistently

I just don't see the comparison. The Rangers are where they are because they had assets (players) to trade for high picks. The Devils did not. The end.

 

[Nico Hischier]

I agree with that. I don't think the Rangers care one bit what the Devils are doing. I think they are fine letting the Devils continue with the new "status quo".

But this isnt JUST about the Rangers. I brought the Rangers up as a comparison. @Zajacs Bowl Cut listed all the times that the Rangers capitalized on assets that the Devils don't have (players) to accelerate their build. Cap space is THE asset the Rangers, as well as almost the whole rest of the league doesnt have and the Devils do.

Letting that cap space go un-used and turnover every year is equivalent to the Rangers deciding to just not trade Nash and let him walk in UFA. And the fact that the Rangers did NOT do that is being sold to menow as the reason they have raced ahead in the rebuild. So wht is it that the Devils are ok doing just that with their cap space, esp when deals like this are obviously out there?

I think a lot of us are hoping we can take advantage of the blues or Tampa bay

we are not the only team sitting pretty with cap space so there could be competition with Detroit and Colorado

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

We just gave to hope Panarin declines in his early 30s and the deal turns to shit. He’s already nearly 29. If he stays elite while their young guys peak, they will be very good.

 

[Al Belin]

Vatanen unfit to play! ha ha ha. Boy oh boy this "postseason" really cannot go worse for the Devils.

 

[Al Belin]

We just gave to hope Panarin declines in his early 30s and the deal turns to shit. He’s already nearly 29. If he stays elite while their young guys peak, they will be very good.

I hear you I have spent alot of time hoping things dont happen for other teams. Would love to be excited about all the things my team could make happen. But my faith is on life support.

 

[Nubmer6]

Hi all. First time poster long time lurker. Compelled to post due to growing angst about the state of this franchise. In addition to a growing sickness about the state of the franchise across the river who I despise almost as much as I love the Devils.

Read this article this morning on The Athletic about Carolina turning the Marleau contract into a lottery pick and was disturbed by this passage right at the top:

It was the morning of Day 2 at the NHL Draft in Vancouver.
There’s always a move or two that pops up that day. And this one caught everyone by surprise.
Not that Toronto had moved Patrick Marleau, that part many of us had speculated for weeks. The Maple Leafs were in dire need of vacating cap space and needing to get out from underneath the final year of the veteran’s $6.25-million cap hit.
There had been talks with Arizona and Los Angeles, among other teams, in the weeks ahead of the draft, but no deal.
Since the Leafs didn’t want to lose a roster player aside from Marleau, this was purely about monetizing the draft pick compensation it would take to find a taker on Marleau. A buyout meant any team would have to pay Marleau around $3.83 million ($3-million signing bonus plus remaining salary).
Which is where the surprise part comes in. It was the Hurricanes who ended up biting on that, owner Tom Dundon not one to waste a nickel, but seeing the wisdom in monetizing the worth of the first-round pick he got in return for taking on Marleau’s contract.
Some 14 months later, that pick turns into 13th overall in the upcoming draft. A nice little piece of business for the Hurricanes.

What is the possible justification for the Devils, who have been selling us on Cap Space and the ability to "weaponize" it, having let Carolina beat them to this deal - and not even be mentioned as being one of the teams involved in discussions with Toronto. This appears to be a straight "space-for-asset" trade which is exactly what we have been sold. And small market, low budget Carolina, who has already drafted circles around the Devils, is able to just swoop in and get another #1. Makes me confused and angry. Please help.

Welcome aboard (wow, I can't believe I've been here long enough that I feel comfortable greeting people like that).

Before the season began, there was a concern that we'd have cap issues next season if we re-signed Hall. Believe it or not, we would have been right against the cap in 2020-2021 if we inked Hall to a 10M+ deal as was tossed around here, and didn't have the space to take on a buyout that would last 2 years. Of course, things didn't work out that way, but I'm guessing that's one of the reasons why we didn't get involved.

 

[Al Belin]

Welcome aboard (wow, I can't believe I've been here long enough that I feel comfortable greeting people like that).

Before the season began, there was a concern that we'd have cap issues next season if we re-signed Hall. Believe it or not, we would have been right against the cap in 2020-2021 if we inked Hall to a 10M+ deal as was tossed around here, and didn't have the space to take on a buyout that would last 2 years. Of course, things didn't work out that way, but I'm guessing that's one of the reasons why we didn't get involved.

Would have been easier to swallow this justification if the devils actually made Hall an offer. But, I asked for justifications and that is one so thanks. And thanks for the welcome.

 

[NJDevs26]

Hindsight is everything and now that the pick turned out to be #13 it looks like we really missed out. At the time, most people thought the pick would be late 20s

It’s not even just that, it’s that they weren’t going to use all their cap space before July 1. They still had Hall, Vat, etc then and overpaid Simmonds on July 1. Could they have fit in Marleau‘s deal as well with the way things worked out sure, but Shero had gone from asset acquisition mode to talent acquisition.

 

[The Devil In I]

I get everyone (and maybe even the Devils) themselves crying about Arizona's pick being devalued because the return to play format gave them a better chance to get in the playoffs. But let's all remember something here, at the time of the Taylor Hall deal, the Coyotes were in FIRST PLACE. The only reason there's complaints is because they faltered towards the end and were out of a playoff spot at the time of the break. But when the Devils made the trade of their star player for a first-round pick to a team already in a playoff spot, I can't imagine they thought it would be a lottery pick.

I think Arizona including the lotto-protected condition says more about their level of confidence in their "first place team" than anything. The Devils have every right to be pissed off about how this played out.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Arizona might have been in first place at the time of the trade, but they were in a tight race with Vegas, Edmonton, and Calgary (all were within 3 or 4 points of each other if I remember correctly)

they also would not have had Kuemper down the stretch so they were definitely not going to make the playoffs. Their pick should have been in the top 10.

 

[NJDevs26]

I get everyone (and maybe even the Devils) themselves crying about Arizona's pick being devalued because the return to play format gave them a better chance to get in the playoffs. But let's all remember something here, at the time of the Taylor Hall deal, the Coyotes were in FIRST PLACE. The only reason there's complaints is because they faltered towards the end and were out of a playoff spot at the time of the break. But when the Devils made the trade of their star player for a first-round pick to a team already in a playoff spot, I can't imagine they thought it would be a lottery pick.

Thing is most of us realized Arizona was a mirage and would likely be at best a bubble team right when the deal was made. No, it certainly wasn’t a guarantee they’d miss the playoffs but it’s not like they were ten points up either. Even in December their position was tenuous.

 

[Triumph]

True but all would still apply to a pick in the late 20's. Several of the picks the rangers acquired that accelerated their rebuild ahead of the devils were picks in the 20's right. Really no justification for this other than simply acknowledging that the cap space asset has been oversold to us and the urgency to move the rebuild forward is and has been greater in Manhattan than it has been in Newark. Way I see it.

Welcome back to the board. I'm surprised this doesn't bring up the 76ers. Still, I would've liked to have been in on the Marleau deal, but how is it sweetened? The Devils have to beat Carolina's offer, presumably. Anyway, it was bad that the Rangers made that Marleau deal, I agree.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Acquiring Subban, Gusev, Palmieri, and Johansson are all examples of using cap space as a weapon. We got all of them for peanuts because their teams couldn't afford them and we could.

 

[Triumph]

The Devils ended up pretty close to the cap and with Hischier and Hughes on max bonus contracts it would've been risky to carry Marleau's deal into next year - remember the idea going into the season was that next season's team would be capped out for sure with Hall re-signed.

 

[My3Sons]

Agreed.

And I don’t even want Greene back at all.

Edmundson would be fine as a bottom pairing-ish guy, but he’ll probably get top-3 minutes here. He’d be like when Greene was still playing all those minutes.

So an aging bottom pairing defender signed to an overpriced retirement contract and then asked to play over his head? Hmm....haven’t we seen this movie......

And it was a blockbuster!!! Hat tricks incoming!!!! The glory days will return!!

 

[OmNomNom]

Lol holy shit has anyone seen Fabian zetterlund lately, dude is built like a tank

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

8 months off to train...I cant wait for camp. It's conceivable a player like Fabian forces his way on the team next/this year

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

just spitballing here....was messing around on CapFriendly for a mock offseason

TRADE Vancouver 1st to St. Louis for Vince Dunn, Tyler Bozak, and St. Louis 2020 3rd (threw this out there on the trade board and the Blues fans seem to be OK with it)
TRADE New York Islanders 2021 2nd to Tampa Bay for Alex Killorn
TRADE Buffalo 2021 5th for Antti Raanta (cap dump), extend him for 2-3 years
TRADE Miles Wood anywhere for a mid round pick

SIGN Joel Edmundson (or Brendan Dillon) in free agency

Boqvist-Hischier-Palmieri
Gusev-Zacha-Bratt
Hughes-Bozak-Killorn (yes I know Hughes will be and should be a center, just stick with me)
Kuokkanen-Zajac-Anderson

Edmundson-Severson
Dunn-Subban
Butcher-T. Smith

Blackwood
Raanta

it isn't sexy, but this is an offseason I would be quite happy with. Getting a guy like Killorn will help add to the toughness, especially playing with Hughes

Still leaves us with two 1sts, two 3rds (1 potentially from CAR), and two 4ths this year as well

Some of the trades could be for different players of course..I just wanted to steer the discussion away from what was being discussed

It looks like we're basically on the same page.

Killorn for NYI 2021 2nd (accepted by TB fans)
Dunn + Bozak for the later of AZ/VAN 1st (accepted by STL fans)
Fischer + Raanta for Wood (accepted by AZ fans)

Then, sign a thumper defenseman - Edmundson or Dillon - or acquire Zadorov when the Avs inevitably move on from him.

X - Hischier - Palmieri
Bratt/Gusev - Zacha - Gusev/Bratt
Killorn - Hughes - Bozak/Fischer
Kuokkanen - Zajac - Fischer/Bozak
Anderson

Dunn - Severson
Edmundson/Dillon/Zadorov - Severson
Butcher - Smith

Blackwood
Raanta

Top-line LW could be someone like Dadonov, who loves signing 1-year deals, or even Hughes, if Ruff sees fit. It's a very versatile and flexible lineup that may not look to sexy on paper, but in practice, it'd be a much better team.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

8 months off to train...I cant wait for camp. It's conceivable a player like Fabian forces his way on the team next/this year

Jesus Christ.

I no longer have any interest in acquiring Christian Fischer

 

[RememberTheName]

Lol holy shit has anyone seen Fabian zetterlund lately, dude is built like a tank

I didn't realize that there was a bottom to the picture until I clicked on it...
This man's become a truck

 

[Al Belin]

Welcome back to the board. I'm surprised this doesn't bring up the 76ers. Still, I would've liked to have been in on the Marleau deal, but how is it sweetened? The Devils have to beat Carolina's offer, presumably. Anyway, it was bad that the Rangers made that Marleau deal, I agree.

Ive seen the Devils lack of activity rationalized on this board numerous times because the other team in question was in the same division, same conference, same league. Why would the Devils have to add a sweetener to beat the Carolina deal? Carolina is a division rival with Toronto. If the Devils simply matched the deal, which was as straight of a swap as you can get (space/cash for pick), would Toronto rather not have gifted a 1st Rd pick to NJ than division rival Carolina? i guess we'll never know, but hard to see why that would be the case.

Speaking of 76ers, I remember reading Elliotte Friedman repotring the following and it struck me as frankly nonsensical:

From what I understand, it is a major position in an organization that owns teams in more than one sport. The leader in the clubhouse is New Jersey. David Blitzer and Joshua Harris, owners of the Devils, also run the Philadelphia 76ers and Crystal Palace of the English Premier League, and are serious bidders for the New York Mets. My theory is that this is some kind of analytics/sports science/leadership position across some or all of those (potential) platforms. But I’d be lying if I claimed I knew the exact role.

The Devils have absolutely nothing to do with the 76ers so it's obviously absurd that Harris and Blitzer would try to hire one guy to oversee both operations.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Ive seen the Devils lack of activity rationalized on this board numerous times because the other team in question was in the same division, same conference, same league. Why would the Devils have to add a sweetener to beat the Carolina deal? Carolina is a division rival with Toronto. If the Devils simply matched the deal, which was as straight of a swap as you can get (space/cash for pick), would Toronto rather not have gifted a 1st Rd pick to NJ than division rival Carolina? i guess we'll never know, but hard to see why that would be the case.

Speaking of 76ers, I remember reading Elliotte Friedman repotring the following and it struck me as frankly nonsensical:

From what I understand, it is a major position in an organization that owns teams in more than one sport. The leader in the clubhouse is New Jersey. David Blitzer and Joshua Harris, owners of the Devils, also run the Philadelphia 76ers and Crystal Palace of the English Premier League, and are serious bidders for the New York Mets. My theory is that this is some kind of analytics/sports science/leadership position across some or all of those (potential) platforms. But I’d be lying if I claimed I knew the exact role.

The Devils have absolutely nothing to do with the 76ers so it's obviously absurd that Harris and Blitzer would try to hire one guy to oversee both operations.

What? No they are not.

 

[Darkauron]

Yeah the Fab was always built like a f***ing TANK