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Prospect Info: Development/Rookie Camp

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BigKing said:
Clifford tore through the NHL at age 19 until Reaves put him to sleep. Outside of the Polak fight this year, he's never really looked the same again in the fighting department. Doesn't help that he got another concussion in the 2012 playoffs.

All it takes is one big shot form a legit heavy to change a guy, especially someone like Clifford who was not drafted to be a goon. Deadmarsh became an egg-shell head after getting clocked by Jovo in much the same way Reaves dropped Clifford.

Nolan should do the heavy-lifting in the fight department. Not as good of a player as Clifford, is bigger, can throw with both hands and has a better chin.
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Not true. Jason Wilson knocked out Clifford almost cold. He missed I think a month or more of time.

I'll find the video.

AA never really lost a fight or was hurt which is crazy.

Kyle gets hurt a lot.
 
I like Clifford and what he brings to the lineup, but I'm sure he can already hear AA knocking at the door. If we can get a 2nd + in return, I'd be ok with a trade. Otherwise, keep him around for a few more years and let's see if he plays like Moen or Ott.
 
McSorley 33 said:
Not true. Jason Wilson knocked out Clifford almost cold. He missed I think a month or more of time.

I'll find the video.

AA never really lost a fight or was hurt which is crazy.

Kyle gets hurt a lot.
Click to expand...

Yes, but he still showed up in the NHL and tore through it until Reaves and has not been the same since. I'm also not quite sure if AA's Junior fight card is as strong as Kyle's, but I do know Kyle put down something like 35 fights in Junior compared to AA's 27 with AA coming back for an overage year I believe. I know Clifford was fighting quality comp in the OHL and was fighting guys like Shawn Thornton and Parros as a rookie. I like AA a lot, but I don't really want to see him having to go toe-to-toe with thos guys....hell, I don't really want Clifford to have to do it either!

Andy will go T2T, but he is a lot smarter fighter than Kyle. Clifford is trying to be smarter which is why he hasn't been as good of a fighter since his rookie year. It feels like the Polak fight was the first one he really opened up with since his first season and it's probably because he knows Polak has a glass jaw since he dropped him once before. I just think that Andy not getting hurt in a fight thus far compared to Clifford is due to style, lower number of fights and a bit weaker competition.

We can both agree though that Clifford needs to not do the heavy lifting and, really, he hasn't. He had 18 regular season fights his rookie year compared to 15 over the next two regular seasons; he's also had at least two concussions as an NHL'er which means it is smart for him to grapple more going forward.

Nolan's ability to throw with both hands and superior size make him the best canidate to fight when needed. A bounce back season from him would go a real long way as someone with his size, skill and fighting ability is somewhat of a rarity. It would be great to have the 2012 version back, allowing you to skate a legit tough guy in the playoffs and even the SCF. He is very accurate with his punches and left-handers always give guys fits. Can really take a punch too.

It may not be feasible, but I'd love to have Clifford, Nolan and AA all in the same lineup. Maybe then this 30+ games without a fight streak would end! FYI...last Kings fight was Nolan v. Bolig in Chicago...only game Kings won in Chicago this season. Just saying.
 
Thanks to all of our camp contributors, lots of great reads.

Max Kitsyn feels like he can't wait for the season to start "THIS is how hockey is to be played. Lets get the season going!".
 
BigKing said:
Yes, but he still showed up in the NHL and tore through it until Reaves and has not been the same since. I'm also not quite sure if AA's Junior fight card is as strong as Kyle's, but I do know Kyle put down something like 35 fights in Junior compared to AA's 27 with AA coming back for an overage year I believe. I know Clifford was fighting quality comp in the OHL and was fighting guys like Shawn Thornton and Parros as a rookie. I like AA a lot, but I don't really want to see him having to go toe-to-toe with thos guys....hell, I don't really want Clifford to have to do it either!

Andy will go T2T, but he is a lot smarter fighter than Kyle. Clifford is trying to be smarter which is why he hasn't been as good of a fighter since his rookie year. It feels like the Polak fight was the first one he really opened up with since his first season and it's probably because he knows Polak has a glass jaw since he dropped him once before. I just think that Andy not getting hurt in a fight thus far compared to Clifford is due to style, lower number of fights and a bit weaker competition.

We can both agree though that Clifford needs to not do the heavy lifting and, really, he hasn't. He had 18 regular season fights his rookie year compared to 15 over the next two regular seasons; he's also had at least two concussions as an NHL'er which means it is smart for him to grapple more going forward.

Nolan's ability to throw with both hands and superior size make him the best canidate to fight when needed. A bounce back season from him would go a real long way as someone with his size, skill and fighting ability is somewhat of a rarity. It would be great to have the 2012 version back, allowing you to skate a legit tough guy in the playoffs and even the SCF. He is very accurate with his punches and left-handers always give guys fits. Can really take a punch too.

It may not be feasible, but I'd love to have Clifford, Nolan and AA all in the same lineup. Maybe then this 30+ games without a fight streak would end! FYI...last Kings fight was Nolan v. Bolig in Chicago...only game Kings won in Chicago this season. Just saying.
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I total agree but I don't see a reason why Nolan, Cliff and AA can't all play together.

Just remove Frazer for AA.

AA is more badass than I previously thought.

Sorry for the rant and off topic guys and again thanks Kings Pawn for your write ups.

You and ghost man should have a blog.
 
Great posts here. Andreoff reminds me of Rick Tocchet. Even if he loses he stands in there. Tocchet was never Ko'd or Tko'd. AA fought Bonneau and Robins this year and held in there. He didn't win but he didn't go down.

Clifford has the physique of a heavyweight but his toe to toe style is dangerous. It was not only the Reaves KO but also the Brookbank TKO.

Nolan is my favorite King and stepped up in the fighting department but he regressed as a player.

Also, none of these guys can or should fight players like McGrattan or Bissonette. All of our guys are middleweights or light heavies.
 
Great post 100% agree.

Nolan is the teams unofficial heavyweight if you can call him that or for the new NHL so to me he has a place.

Cliff should be a second line player or third liner who should be able to score or score more than he has.

AA is a ideal fourth line guy who loves to hit people and fight but can score too. I don't see AA as a possible second line guy like Kyle could be.

So to me all three guys are similar and slightly different at what they ultimately bring besides the beat downs; should be room for all three.

I know DL loves his tough guys so I'm not too worried.
 
Hey Tonelli, with what you've seen of the Kings prospects, what do you agree/disagree with, if you don't mind me singling you out?

I'm just curious in terms of what I'm seeing and how far off I am from the professionals :)
 
FrozenKing18 said:
Kyle is all offense, dude needs to start protecting himself better.
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That's what pretty much sealed the deal for Deadmarsh's career. Such a sad way to end what should have been a long and illustrious career. Clifford definitely has to adjust the way he fights and pick his battles wisely. He could be a far more effective player if he sets his mind to it as opposed to focusing on just the physical side of the game (which he still has to provide).
 
I hoping Mersch makes the team but its not easy getting info on him.

Curious what Roach's chances are making the team as a third pairing guy. I like his size, he's physical and has a hard shot.

For those who know, what player comparison would you say is close to zykov. Plays like Brown?
 
McSorley 33 said:
I hoping Mersch makes the team but its not easy getting info on him.

Curious what Roach's chances are making the team as a third pairing guy. I like his size, he's physical and has a hard shot.

For those who know, what player comparison would you say is close to zykov. Plays like Brown?
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Mersch is going back to college for his Senior year...so, hopefully he reports to Manchester at the end of his season.

I think Roach has been nursing an injury this week...but is at camp.
No way he plays on the Kings this year. Pretty sure he will play 1
more year in the WHL.

Zykov? I am not sure, haven't seen him play, excpet for a few clips.
I am hearing several say that Frattin is comparable to Brown, that his potential is a similar game as Brown.

Zykov will most assuradly be going back to Baie-Comeau. I hope he stays in LA all Summer and trains - that will help develop his game. He is teachable, hungry, coachable and has a great work ethic, so that will go a long way in seeing him become all he can be...maybe he will have a shot next year? (14-15) Who knows.
 
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Scrimmage tomorrow in the morning and no afternoon session. Someone go and film it.
 
Score is apparently 5-3 right now. Here are goal scorers:

Jon Rosen ‏@lakingsinsider 2m
Break at #DevCamp scrimmage. Black 5 (Toffoli x2, Mersch, Zykov, Kitsyn), White 3 (Pearson x2, Weal)
 
King'sPawn said:
Hey Tonelli, with what you've seen of the Kings prospects, what do you agree/disagree with, if you don't mind me singling you out?

I'm just curious in terms of what I'm seeing and how far off I am from the professionals :)
Click to expand...

Had a little time so I thought I would try and give you my thoughts.

I do want to start by saying that on our cup championship team we had the following rookies on our team.

Loktionov had played a total of 58 NHL games prior to the two games he played for us in the playoffs making him a rookie.

Jordan Nolan had played a total of 26 NHL games and was a rookie.

VV had 54 games and was a rookie.

D King had a total of 33 NHL games and was a rookie.

TLewis had played in 11 NHL games spanning two seasons prior to his rookie year which was during our cup run in 11/12.

The team we won the cup with had 4 rookie forwards and one rookie D. This isn't anything to do with what you have written but more just posting in this response that teams can and do carry multiple rookies with them at the same time and can win a cup too.

We will see Toffi next season and Frattin too giving us two rookies with some certainty. It wouldn't surprise me to see Vey Pearson AndyA and possibly Kozun spend some time with the big club this coming season up front and Deslauriers or possibly Forbort for a cup of tea on D too.

Just spouting off about the potential for a great team to not only be capable of carrying multiple rookies and still win a cup, not that I think we should or would have to do so again.

Since I am not able to be at camp this year I can only respond to what your observations are in commenting on how they either are or aren't in line with what I have seen from the kids based on my previous experiences. So far everything I have read from those who have posted have been interesting to pretty spot on observations of how these players have looked throughout their developmental arc.

We have so many good posters here. I enjoy reading almost everything.

(I will respond to each in bold below your observations)

Forwards:
(37) Nick Shore - His release wasn't as devastating as yesterday. Good speed with the puck. Cerebral type of approach when it came to getting open with a defender on him.

Right in line with everything I have ever seen in Nick. I once mistakenly said that his game awareness wasn't all that great and he proved me wrong over the two seasons since. So it isn't likely that you will see his or any of the kids best since you won't get to see them in actual game situations but Nick is a shifty/smart player who is an above average skater and likes to use speed and grit to make plays but if you follow him during the middle to later stages of a game it is his positional awareness that helps him stand out among his peers. He has a nice release to his shot but it isn't great. Good, but not great. I have a ton on NS but what you have written is in line with what I would expect from him. I see him as being just as ready as Vey who I think is going to be an exceptional player.


(38) Valentin Zykov - I know this is just practice, but I have yet to see a combination of skillsets or talents that show how he was so successful in the Q. He didn't really show a shot that was good for his age, He fell a couple times, and he just didn't have the speed or puck control that I might have unfairly expected out of him. Even without the Manchester players present to blow the curve, his talents, when isolated on the ice, just haven't blown me away. It might be a situation where he only really shines in game time and with competition, but right now I just don't see what the big draw is.

I have only seen tape on Zykov but believe he is a truly solid standout among his peers. That said he has also just finished his rookie season of NA hockey and will likely try to do too much in his first camp making him either a hero or a goat. So far it sounds like goat but I can only tell you that from what I have seen he is an elite level talent who will take 3 years of NA hockey (at least 1 year of AHL) before he can show his best to us at the NHL level. I think that your observations sound fair and I wonder if they have changed at all today.

(42) Scott Sabourin - He has a good wrist shot, but the more encouraging thing I see is his attempts to practice "right." In the puck control drills, there was a huge emphasis on skating and direction. Although his foot movements were deliberate and slow, they were done just as the coaching staff was telling him.

Needs to work on his skating. Needs to learn when to hit. Can shoot. Is a solid physical player who could end up being a useful utility guy.

(48) Maxim Kitsyn - His skating is getting there. It's a lot better than two years ago; his puck control is among the top of the group. Had some great shots.

Max has a great shot and is smart player who loves physical work. His strengths are his ability to keep the puck on his stick like it is glued there and his determination. He is smart and you won't see him out of position all to often if at all. Your right on the money.

(49) Joel Lowry - Unquestionably the fastest skater in the entire camp. Can really shoot too, given enough time.

I am a fan of his game but missed most of this season being out following the west/central. The two games I did see shows that he is still speedy and has good hands. He needs to find his game still so if you are watching him I would say that he is sort of stuck in between wanting to be just a solid all around player or a high end top 6er. He has the skills to make a go of either but he has a ways to go before he gets there. He is no doubt getting solid coaching at Cornell and entering his JR year it will be interesting to see where he is next summer.

(52) Tomas Hyka - He has effort on his side, but not the speed. I have concerns for a player his size, a transition to the professional level will be a very frustrating task for him. Sounds right.

(55) Michael Mersch - Still heavy footed, still has a great shot. Hand-eye coordination was exceptional when it came to deflections.

This past season was his best in every area of play in my opinion. He can do it all and be a real presence when he wants to but his skating needs work. I saw him play several times and he is climbing the ladder from outside shot to could just make it. He will need to finish school and then spend a year in the AHL at least but if he keeps working hard I wouldn't be surprised to see him in our bottom 6 in 3 years.

(60) Jordan Weal - Got pushed around by equally sized forward Brian O'Neill. Needs to add strength. Gets pissed though. I like it.

Weal has tons of talent but does get pushed around a bit. Sounds like you are seeing what most everyone else does here.

I will get to the rest later but so far so good. Everyone who has written down their observations seem to be seeing allot of what I see during the year. Keep em coming!
 
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Scrimmage: 7-6 White.

http://lakingsinsider.com/

Top Titty goes Top Titty twice.

BLACK, 3-2
TYLER TOFFOLI, scored during three-on-five situation. Up high, top titty, short side.

BLACK, 4-2
TYLER TOFFOLI, scored again during a three-on-five situation, quick release, up high, top titty, glove side.

Jordan Weal with a hatter.

.
 
Tonellisghost said:
Had a little time so I thought I would try and give you my thoughts.

I do want to start by saying that on our cup championship team we had the following rookies on our team.

Loktionov had played a total of 58 NHL games prior to the two games he played for us in the playoffs making him a rookie.

Jordan Nolan had played a total of 26 NHL games and was a rookie.

VV had 54 games and was a rookie.

D King had a total of 33 NHL games and was a rookie.

TLewis had played in 11 NHL games spanning two seasons prior to his rookie year which was during our cup run in 11/12.

The team we won the cup with had 4 rookie forwards and one rookie D. This isn't anything to do with what you have written but more just posting in this response that teams can and do carry multiple rookies with them at the same time and can win a cup too.

We will see Toffi next season and Frattin too giving us two rookies with some certainty. It wouldn't surprise me to see Vey Pearson AndyA and possibly Kozun spend some time with the big club this coming season up front and Deslauriers or possibly Forbort for a cup of tea on D too.

Just spouting off about the potential for a great team to not only be capable of carrying multiple rookies and still win a cup, not that I think we should or would have to do so again.

Since I am not able to be at camp this year I can only respond to what your observations are in commenting on how they either are or aren't in line with what I have seen from the kids based on my previous experiences. So far everything I have read from those who have posted have been interesting to pretty spot on observations of how these players have looked throughout their developmental arc.

We have so many good posters here. I enjoy reading almost everything.

(I will respond to each in bold below your observations)

Forwards:
(37) Nick Shore - His release wasn't as devastating as yesterday. Good speed with the puck. Cerebral type of approach when it came to getting open with a defender on him.

Right in line with everything I have ever seen in Nick. I once mistakenly said that his game awareness wasn't all that great and he proved me wrong over the two seasons since. So it isn't likely that you will see his or any of the kids best since you won't get to see them in actual game situations but Nick is a shifty/smart player who is an above average skater and likes to use speed and grit to make plays but if you follow him during the middle to later stages of a game it is his positional awareness that helps him stand out among his peers. He has a nice release to his shot but it isn't great. Good, but not great. I have a ton on NS but what you have written is in line with what I would expect from him. I see him as being just as ready as Vey who I think is going to be an exceptional player.


(38) Valentin Zykov - I know this is just practice, but I have yet to see a combination of skillsets or talents that show how he was so successful in the Q. He didn't really show a shot that was good for his age, He fell a couple times, and he just didn't have the speed or puck control that I might have unfairly expected out of him. Even without the Manchester players present to blow the curve, his talents, when isolated on the ice, just haven't blown me away. It might be a situation where he only really shines in game time and with competition, but right now I just don't see what the big draw is.

I have only seen tape on Zykov but believe he is a truly solid standout among his peers. That said he has also just finished his rookie season of NA hockey and will likely try to do too much in his first camp making him either a hero or a goat. So far it sounds like goat but I can only tell you that from what I have seen he is an elite level talent who will take 3 years of NA hockey (at least 1 year of AHL) before he can show his best to us at the NHL level. I think that your observations sound fair and I wonder if they have changed at all today.

(42) Scott Sabourin - He has a good wrist shot, but the more encouraging thing I see is his attempts to practice "right." In the puck control drills, there was a huge emphasis on skating and direction. Although his foot movements were deliberate and slow, they were done just as the coaching staff was telling him.

Needs to work on his skating. Needs to learn when to hit. Can shoot. Is a solid physical player who could end up being a useful utility guy.

(48) Maxim Kitsyn - His skating is getting there. It's a lot better than two years ago; his puck control is among the top of the group. Had some great shots.

Max has a great shot and is smart player who loves physical work. His strengths are his ability to keep the puck on his stick like it is glued there and his determination. He is smart and you won't see him out of position all to often if at all. Your right on the money.

(49) Joel Lowry - Unquestionably the fastest skater in the entire camp. Can really shoot too, given enough time.

I am a fan of his game but missed most of this season being out following the west/central. The two games I did see shows that he is still speedy and has good hands. He needs to find his game still so if you are watching him I would say that he is sort of stuck in between wanting to be just a solid all around player or a high end top 6er. He has the skills to make a go of either but he has a ways to go before he gets there. He is no doubt getting solid coaching at Cornell and entering his JR year it will be interesting to see where he is next summer.

(52) Tomas Hyka - He has effort on his side, but not the speed. I have concerns for a player his size, a transition to the professional level will be a very frustrating task for him. Sounds right.

(55) Michael Mersch - Still heavy footed, still has a great shot. Hand-eye coordination was exceptional when it came to deflections.

This past season was his best in every area of play in my opinion. He can do it all and be a real presence when he wants to but his skating needs work. I saw him play several times and he is climbing the ladder from outside shot to could just make it. He will need to finish school and then spend a year in the AHL at least but if he keeps working hard I wouldn't be surprised to see him in our bottom 6 in 3 years.

(60) Jordan Weal - Got pushed around by equally sized forward Brian O'Neill. Needs to add strength. Gets pissed though. I like it.

Weal has tons of talent but does get pushed around a bit. Sounds like you are seeing what most everyone else does here.

I will get to the rest later but so far so good. Everyone who has written down their observations seem to be seeing allot of what I see during the year. Keep em coming!
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hey tonelli would it be a safe assumption to say Kitsyn is Frolov with passion??
 
kings11 said:
hey tonelli would it be a safe assumption to say Kitsyn is Frolov with passion??
Click to expand...

We are probably not going to see another person for awhile that can hold on to the puck down low like Froloaf.

Kopitar is about the only guy that comes close.

Froloaf was a master down low.
 
damacles1156 said:
We are probably not going to see another person for awhile that can hold on to the puck down low like Froloaf.

Kopitar is about the only guy that comes close.

Froloaf was a master down low.
Click to expand...

Yes he was! To bad the passion wasnt there but Kitsyn seems like a gamer that's willing to make his presence felt and we need more net crashers
 
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kings11 said:
hey tonelli would it be a safe assumption to say Kitsyn is Frolov with passion??
Click to expand...

Yes.

Well Frolov with a mean streak and a drive the net attitude. That and I think Max his the potential to become a better than average dangler but it isn't his strongest attribute.


That said Max definitely plays with more fire than Frolov ever really did.
 
cnshockey said:
Scrimmage tomorrow in the morning and no afternoon session. Someone go and film it.
Click to expand...

Lombardi with his paranoia of industrial espionage has targeted any fan that looks like they are shooting video. If anyone sees you filming, a redcoat or staff will ask you to stop.

I'm really curious to see if this anti-video stance continues through the big camp.
 
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