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Detroit Redwings Downfall

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Sports2 said:
The implication with the (somewhat arbitrary) 10 year mark was that these players would now generally be between 21-28 and contributing to their teams success. Faksa played 9 seasons for the Stars, and is now on another team. Nichushkin played in Dallas 3 years, went to the KHL for 2 years, came back to Dallas for a year, and is on his 6th season with Colorado.
You also dug back to 2012, before the third longest tenured GM in the league in Nill started.

Unfortunately, this thread is also about Detroit’s downfall, not Dallas’- but you’re welcome to start a thread and I’ll be sure to check in.
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The obvious point was that you can play that game for all teams. No one gets it all right. Holland/Wright especially got a lot wrong. Yes, we're still paying for their mistakes. But like I pointed out, even the third longest tenured GM and arguably the best drafter in the NHL has some absolutely brutal drafts under his belt. If Yzerman's worst miss is getting Edvinsson+Cossa over the complete gamble that was Wyatt Johnston in the Covid-draft, his draft record so far is about as impeccable as it gets.

Hockeyfan2390 said:
Hint hint, Steve.

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The mindset of Julien BriseBois : “I’d rather have good players than picks” - Dose.ca

If you ever want to become a recruiter for the NHL draft, I wouldn’t recommend going to Tampa Bay to do so. And that’s even if being Quebecer can help you get in touch with Julien BriseBois, who has always trusted people from here. Why am I saying this? Because the Tampa Bay Lightning has […]
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I guess it's good at some point they had a GM who valued picks otherwise they'd not have Vasielievsky, Point, Kucherov etc.
 
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Pavels Dog said:
The obvious point was that you can play that game for all teams. No one gets it all right. Holland/Wright especially got a lot wrong. Yes, we're still paying for their mistakes. But like I pointed out, even the third longest tenured GM and arguably the best drafter in the NHL has some absolutely brutal drafts under his belt. If Yzerman's worst miss is getting Edvinsson+Cossa over the complete gamble that was Wyatt Johnston in the Covid-draft, his draft record so far is about as impeccable as it gets.


I guess it's good at some point they had a GM who valued picks otherwise they'd not have Vasielievsky, Point, Kucherov etc.
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The Red Wings have no Vasilevskiy in their system. If Cossa was so special, he'd already be in the NHL.

The Red Wings have no Point or Kucherov in their system.
 
Hockeyfan2390 said:
The Red Wings have no Vasilevskiy in their system. If Cossa was so special, he'd already be in the NHL.

The Red Wings have no Point or Kucherov in their system.
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Tampa Bay did not know they had any of these players in the system until they showed up in the NHL and blew away expectations. If they knew, they would have taken them all with their first picks and Vasi would have gone 1st overall.

Stupid argument. There is no team that has Points or Kucherovs in their system other than players picked top-5.
 
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RedHawkDown said:
Stupid argument. There is no team that has Points or Kucherovs in their system other than players picked top-5.
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Not even remotely. The Red Wings don't have any players like that in their system aside from ASP. Nate Danielson and his 11 goals in the AHL aren't going to save the Red Wings. It's time for him to start adding established NHL talent rather than playing the "wait and see" game amidst the longest playoff drought in team history.
 
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Samsquanch said:
I'd rather start at zero with the Sens and Habs roster over the Wings roster next season....Probably Buffalo's too.

No longer close imo.
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all of these teams have had multiple more top 5 picks than Detroit. It would be pretty pathetic if they weren’t ahead..

On that note, Detroit finished above Buffalo two years in a row.
 
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JD1 said:
Might be time for Stevie Y to hand over the reigns to someone that can get it done
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If the Red Wings aren’t firmly in a playoff position in March of next season; it’s time to move on.

No more coasting on his last name, no more insulting lack of urgency, no more playing the what if game with meh prospects.

Anyone else would have been fired by now. 6 full years on the job and no playoff appearance? Unacceptable.
 
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JD1 said:
Might be time for Stevie Y to hand over the reigns to someone that can get it done
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Hockeyfan2390 said:
If the Red Wings aren’t firmly in a playoff position in March of next season; it’s time to move on.

No more coasting on his last name, no more insulting lack of urgency, no more playing the what if game with meh prospects.

Anyone else would have been fired by now. 6 full years on the job and no playoff appearance? Unacceptable.
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Don't worry guys, Yzerman's job is safe.
Building a team for the future, the pieces will come into place.
 
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SirloinUB said:
all of these teams have had multiple more top 5 picks than Detroit. It would be pretty pathetic if they weren’t ahead..

On that note, Detroit finished above Buffalo two years in a row.
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Sabres had two first overall picks. Yes, the Wings still need to add elite pieces to their core, but (imo) they’re ahead of the Sabres in depth of good young players.
 
Hockeyfan2390 said:
If the Red Wings aren’t firmly in a playoff position in March of next season; it’s time to move on.

No more coasting on his last name, no more insulting lack of urgency, no more playing the what if game with meh prospects.

Anyone else would have been fired by now. 6 full years on the job and no playoff appearance? Unacceptable.
Click to expand...


All I’ve got to say to this nonsensical post is that you’re entitled to your opinion
 
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SirloinUB said:
All I’ve got to say to this nonsensical post is that you’re entitled to your opinion
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Imo as fans, when our team is not very good (rebuilding or retooling or whatever process they’re following to improve) we hang our hopes on the younger players and prospects. Yzermsn has drafted well and collected a nice group of good young players. Where’s he’s failing, and why the club is stuck in the current hole they’re in, is he’s not been able to get (draft or trade) an elite, offensive, 1D and an elite, offensive, 1C. It’s these two key pieces he needs to get to move the club ahead.
As the current young players he has collected start to get paid the cap gets eaten up. Not so much left for the elite pieces he needs, if he can find them.
That’s why I think it’s important for Yzermsn to trade some of these younger good players (prospects too) to bring in elite players, whether that’s directly in trade or by opening cap space for free agents.
 
Czechboy said:
You feel comparing career stats for 2 guys from same draft, same age is disengebuous?
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When they've played minimal seasons, including one player playing an extra season in their young careers... absolutely. Saying its an easy comparison and using raw total stats with no context to make the comparison look worse is disingenuous. When one player has scored a lot more goals, and out produced the other the last 2 seasons but you focus more on raw point totals for the guy with an extra season played, its disingenuous.
 
newfy said:
When they've played minimal seasons, including one player playing an extra season in their young careers... absolutely. Saying its an easy comparison and using raw total stats with no context to make the comparison look worse is disingenuous. When one player has scored a lot more goals, and out produced the other the last 2 seasons but you focus more on raw point totals for the guy with an extra season played, its disingenuous.
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Why do you think he got the extra season? Same age. Same draft? Disengebuous is removing career year for one player and including it for the other
 
SirloinUB said:
all of these teams have had multiple more top 5 picks than Detroit. It would be pretty pathetic if they weren’t ahead..

On that note, Detroit finished above Buffalo two years in a row.
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Aside from slafkovsky, there has been no top 5 pick involved in this playoff run for the Habs.

Remember, price and Weber effectively retired after the 2021 finals. Gorton was only hired in late 2021 and then Hughes and st louis in early 2022. It was only then that they picked 1st, 5th, and 5th. Like I said, slafkovsky is the only regular from that list so far and is 21 years old.

This is a different situation than what Detroit or Ottawa have been going through.
 
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JianYang said:
Aside from slafkovsky, there has been no top 5 pick involved in this playoff run for the Habs.

Remember, price and Weber effectively retired after the 2021 finals. Gorton was only hired in late 2021 and then Hughes and st louis in early 2022. It was only then that they picked 1st, 5th, and 5th. Like I said, slafkovsky is the only regular from that list so far and is 21 years old.

This is a different situation than what Detroit or Ottawa have been going through.
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Habs unearthed an absolute gem after round one in Hutson. Imo, if Yzerman’s had drafted Hutson (no blame meant) the Wings would be in the playoffs. Take Hutson away from the Habs and they are still drafting top 10.
Yzerman needs to get lucky (like the Habs with Hutson) and unearth a couple gems, either via trade, free agency, or draft.
 
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Fatass said:
Habs unearthed an absolute gem after round one in Hutson. Imo, if Yzerman’s had drafted Hutson (no blame meant) the Wings would be in the playoffs. Take Hutson away from the Habs and they are still drafting top 10.
Yzerman needs to get lucky (like the Habs with Hutson) and unearth a couple gems, either via trade, free agency, or draft.
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Yeah, he mentioned top 5 so I kept the context there. Hutson was an early 2nd a couple years ago.

The other guys like Suzuki who seems to have taken another step this year was a player in the pacioretty trade where they got tatar as well. Other key guy was caufield who was drafted 15th overall. Laine came with a 2nd rounder in the offseason for Jordan Harris.

Matheson was traded for petry. Guhle was also a 1st rounder but he was something like 16th overall like caufield.

Montembeault was picked off of waivers on an emergency when price went down.

You can go down the list with their key guys (aside from salfkovsky who has been an inconsistent 21 year old) and they were not drafted top 5 by montreal nor were they traded for using a top 5 pick.
 
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Czechboy said:
Why do you think he got the extra season? Same age. Same draft? Disengebuous is removing career year for one player and including it for the other
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When you're talking about 18 year olds, circumstances have a big impact on if a guy plays or not. I'm not saying remove his career year, I'm saying he played a whole rookie season before Raymond was in the league. So talking about career stats for a guy with 4 seasons total under his belt and including a full season for another guy in his stats is dumb.

To put it another way.. since Raymond has been in the league, he has 2 seasons where he outperformed Stutzle, one where they were even, and one where Stutzle outperformed Raymond. You can use career stats to try to paint it like Stutzle has been clearly better because he played an extra season to add to his raw point totals, but its a really dumb way to try to make a point
 
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