Detroit Redwings Downfall

[WarriorofTime]

You keep going with this after being told there was no way Detroit was tanking with Larkin/Seider/Raymond on the roster...

Why not? Those guys aren't superstars and certainly weren't 2-3 years ago. The Wings spent a bunch of money on veterans that were pretty mid, and what a shock, they became mediocre.

Look at this team, it's not a young team. 2022-23 Detroit Red Wings Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts | Hockey-Reference.com, very few players that factor into any sort of contender window for the Wings. Why did they need to finish 12 points higher than Montreal (who only picked 5th that year), a team that's since surpassed them in their rebuild?

Nobody, Yzerman especially, seems to have any idea what the Wings timeline is. They kept Dylan Larkin around for his whole prime, to date to just miss the playoffs every year. They signed a bunch of vets to improve the team but cap its ceiling in terms of draft picks. Then on the other hand, they trade away Hronek and Walman, who are good defensemen and have like 4/6 of their defense be total crap this year... while insisting they are slowly but surely "building through the draft" and "just wait for the kids".

 

[SirKillalot]

ahh so now you’ve moved the goalpost from , you didn’t edit anything out, to you responded to the parts you felt like..
You didn’t fool anyone.

No I responded to what I thought is relevant. I didn't edit anything out, as you say your post is still up there, I didn't remove it. I just quoted what I wanted to quote and respond to. Idk if you know you can do that with the mouse? You don't always have to quote everyone's entire posts.

Just like you or anyone else can answer on what they want so can I. I didn't remove your opinion, its there where you posted it, I don't have to answer on everything on your or everyone's posts, just like you don't have to.

For me its not relevant.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Why not? Those guys aren't superstars and certainly weren't 2-3 years ago. The Wings spent a bunch of money on veterans that were pretty mid, and what a shock, they became mediocre.

Look at this team, it's not a young team. 2022-23 Detroit Red Wings Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts | Hockey-Reference.com, very few players that factor into any sort of contender window for the Wings. Why did they need to finish 12 points higher than Montreal (who only picked 5th that year), a team that's since surpassed them in their rebuild?

Ahh yes. Larkin/Seider/Raymond didn't make Detroit too good to be in the bottom. It's those shitty, terrible, awful signings we all laugh about that made them too good to be in the bottom.

Wait... That doesn't make sense.

 

[CowbellConray]

My issue with the Red Wings is they still have so many holes, and while they have pieces, most of them still have questions of their own.

Larkin is a decent #1 Center. They need a good second line center or another #1. They need another top 6 winger, Raymond/Debrincat are good, but neither is a + defensive player. They need an Alex Tuch or Hagel type top 6 two way winger who can put up 55-65 points.

They need two more top 4 D. They have Seider as a decent/low end #1, and then nothing until Edvinsson, who right now is a decent second pairing player. Hopefully he continues to develop, but even if he does they have very little outside of those two.

So, if they need another top six C, another top 6 wing, two top 4 D, and an actual starting goalie, that means they need 5 GOOD assets added to their team. They dont have the cap to overpay and sign those guys, and they dont have the assets to really address in trade. So they need to draft these guys, and it's a guessing game if they will develop. Even then, you are looking at another 2-3 years minimum to get guys who are drafted from 2022 on to make those impacts.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Ahh yes. Larkin/Seider/Raymond didn't make Detroit too good to be in the bottom. It's those shitty, terrible, awful signings we all laugh about that made them too good to be in the bottom.

Wait... That doesn't make sense.

Stop acting condescending when you contradict yourself post to post. You want it both ways.

 

[SirKillalot]

My issue with the Red Wings is they still have so many holes, and while they have pieces, most of them still have questions of their own.

Correct.

Larkin is a decent #1 Center. They need a good second line center or another #1. They need another top 6 winger, Raymond/Debrincat are good, but neither is a + defensive player. They need an Alex Tuch or Hagel type top 6 two way winger who can put up 55-65 points.

They do need another top center, whether it comes from within in development of Kasper or Danielson, or it comes from outside through trade or FA. Or if Lombardi comes up to claim a spot.

I also think they need a winger. It could come from within as there are many younger guys with potential to get there, even if their names are "known" by everyone yet. They could develop into it.

They need two more top 4 D.

Agreed.

They have Seider as a decent/low end #1, and then nothing until Edvinsson, who right now is a decent second pairing player. Hopefully he continues to develop, but even if he does they have very little outside of those two.

Seider will develop into a top end number one d-man. Some believe Edvinsson could be better than Seider, I don't think he will, but he will be a good 2/3 type d-man.

So, if they need another top six C, another top 6 wing, two top 4 D, and an actual starting goalie, that means they need 5 GOOD assets added to their team

The goalie they believe will come in Cossa or Augustine, thus why they sign every old goalie they can come across for cover for now. Could be an idea of finding a middle way with one goalie who is good and late 20's at some point to be a 1A/1B with Cossa/Augustine.

So they need to draft these guys, and it's a guessing game if they will develop. Even then, you are looking at another 2-3 years minimum to get guys who are drafted from 2022 on to make those impacts.

I believe some of those might be in the organization already, especially winger. But of course nothing is 100%.

I better watch out it since Golden_Jet gonna flame out now when I didn't quote everything you wrote.

 

[RedHawkDown]

If other teams fans want to actually engage in some meaningful discussion:

Totally agree that there are some major holes on the roster. We need another 2 top 6 forwards, much better depth, and another 2 top 4 D, as someone else mentioned in here.

Here's one example path to that. They need to dump two of Compher, Copp, and Tarasenko, which should be a bit easier given the large rise in the cap. Attach assets to them if you have to to get them out the door. Sucks, and it's Yzerman's fault they're here anyway, but it is what it is. Say you can dump Compher and Tarasenko to a cap floor team.

Sign Bennett, Ehlers and Provorov this offseason. Promote ASP and Danielson, and try to get Buchelnikov out of his KHL contract. Try to sign a tougher depth piece like Trent Frederic.

Ehlers-Larkin-Raymond
DeBrincat-Kasper-Bennett
Danielson-Frederic-Buchelnikov
Copp-Rasmussen-Soderblom

Provorov-Seider
Edvinsson-ASP
Chiarot-Johansson
Holl

Talbot
Mrazek/Cossa

There's a clear path to competing next year that isn't completely out to lunch. Obviously adding better guys through trade would be even better. Yzerman did plenty of that in Tampa, it's now time for him to prove that he can do it in Detroit.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Correct.


They do need another top center, whether it comes from within in development of Kasper or Danielson, or it comes from outside through trade or FA. Or if Lombardi comes up to claim a spot.

I also think they need a winger. It could come from within as there are many younger guys with potential to get there, even if their names are "known" by everyone yet. They could develop into it.


Agreed.


Seider will develop into a top end number one d-man. Some believe Edvinsson could be better than Seider, I don't think he will, but he will be a good 2/3 type d-man.


The goalie they believe will come in Cossa or Augustine, thus why they sign every old goalie they can come across for cover for now. Could be an idea of finding a middle way with one goalie who is good and late 20's at some point to be a 1A/1B with Cossa/Augustine.

I believe some of those might be in the organization already, especially winger. But of course nothing is 100%.

I better watch out it since Golden_Jet gonna flame out now when I didn't quote everything you wrote.

Ahh so now you admit it,
It’s obvious why you dodged the SY question.

 

[SirKillalot]

Ahh so now you admit it,

Idk what you think, everything is in your own mind.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Idk what you think, everything is in your own mind.

Yes that’s correct, you dodged the SY question, that is in my mind.
We all know why you dodged it.

 

[SirKillalot]

Yes that’s correct, you dodged the SY question

No I don't think its relevant.
Team is on a plan and things are going in direction the management and ownership wants.
If everyone is on board, you don't change to just make a change.

Some development some years happens outside of the team, meaning the prospects.
Patience is still the key.

So can you believe whatever you want but its not in agreement with this management or ownership.

 

[CowbellConray]

If other teams fans want to actually engage in some meaningful discussion:

Totally agree that there are some major holes on the roster. We need another 2 top 6 forwards, much better depth, and another 2 top 4 D, as someone else mentioned in here.

Here's one example path to that. They need to dump two of Compher, Copp, and Tarasenko, which should be a bit easier given the large rise in the cap. Attach assets to them if you have to to get them out the door. Sucks, and it's Yzerman's fault they're here anyway, but it is what it is. Say you can dump Compher and Tarasenko to a cap floor team.

Sign Bennett, Ehlers and Provorov this offseason. Promote ASP and Danielson, and try to get Buchelnikov out of his KHL contract. Try to sign a tougher depth piece like Trent Frederic.

Ehlers-Larkin-Raymond
DeBrincat-Kasper-Bennett
Danielson-Frederic-Buchelnikov
Copp-Rasmussen-Soderblom

Provorov-Seider
Edvinsson-ASP
Chiarot-Johansson
Holl

Talbot
Mrazek/Cossa

There's a clear path to competing next year that isn't completely out to lunch. Obviously adding better guys through trade would be even better. Yzerman did plenty of that in Tampa, it's now time for him to prove that he can do it in Detroit.

So the plan is to trade 2-3 of their middle six forwards (and find takers), the overpay Ehlers (he’s going to want 10M), Bennett (10M) and provorov (6M), Assuming they want to come to Detroit. Then, promote Danielson who doesn’t look ready, ASP who isn’t ready, and also not address goaltending.

I just don’t find it feasible that they will sign those three guys, especially if the front office just trades away any guys they sign from two years ago

 

[RedHawkDown]

So the plan is to trade 2-3 of their middle six forwards (and find takers), the overpay Ehlers (he’s going to want 10M), Bennett (10M) and provorov (6M), Assuming they want to come to Detroit. Then, promote Danielson who doesn’t look ready, ASP who isn’t ready, and also not address goaltending.

I just don’t find it feasible that they will sign those three guys, especially if the front office just trades away any guys they sign from two years ago

It's just one plan. I highly, highly, highly doubt either of Bennett and Ehlers get 10M, if so, then sure don't sign either of those guys and look elsewhere.

In what world is ASP not ready? He's crushing the SHL playoffs with 8 pts in 10 games after a great season, and has won top defenseman at the WJC two years in a row. What else could he possibly do to show he's ready for the NHL other than not be a Red Wings prospect lol?

I'm not exactly sure what any of you want - every single plan or option any of us offer or discuss is shot down as "not feasible" or "impossible". Do you want us to just say "you're all right, we have to fire Yzerman, trade Raymond, Seider and Larkin, and rebuild for another 10 years"? Like what are we even doing here?

If someone told you Montreal's plan last year was to have Hutson come in and be an elite #1 play-driving offensive dman, have Suzuki take a big step forward, and have Demidov set KHL records for U20 scoring, what would you have said? How about CBJ having Marchenko become an elite PPG forward? St. Louis having Holloway come out of nowhere to be a play-driving power forward? None of these things were even remotely expected or thought to be "feasible" yet they happened. But if we have even any semblance of a plan that requires some luck to work out, we're unreasonble and it's unfeasible?

There is so much obvious praying and wishing that Detroit will fail in this thread it's hilarious. We get it, every other team's prospects will continue to get better and knock it out of the park, and ours will all fail. Great discussion lmao.

 

[Czechboy]

First and foremost one or two d-men who can be top pair and top four and play with Seider and Edvinsson.
Seider need either a speciality d-man whether its offensive or defensive, or an all-round guy who is just overall good. Depending on how you want to use Seider, personally I would get all-around or defensive as I want Seider to be the aggressive d-man and improve offensively as I think he has it in him to do so.

Edvinsson I think need unless paired with Seider, an offensive d-man or all-round with offensive traits around him. Edvinsson might develop into that himself, but its more realistic he grows more solidified into being that security d-man on a pair, even though he has some attacking drives now and then. He done well with Johansson though, but AJo is more the complimentary d-man than Edvinsson, and whether he becomes a good enough 4th man to play there when the roster is better I'm not sure. AJo might be better of being 3rd pair d-man long term.

Would you say guys like Hronek and walman would fit this description?

I just can't help but think this top 4 would be top 10 easy on NHL

Walman seider
Ed Hronek
Ajo

That has everything. I'd trade my oilers top 4 for this in a heartbeat. And I absolutely think that gets you in the playoffs for years including last year and this one. All in their 20s.. all play over 20 a night. All with a good .ppg average. I actually think walman and Hronek have a higher .ppg than seider this season and similar minutes. And who knows how good Ed will become. He's been the biggest bright light of the wings season for me.

 

[Czechboy]

If other teams fans want to actually engage in some meaningful discussion:

Totally agree that there are some major holes on the roster. We need another 2 top 6 forwards, much better depth, and another 2 top 4 D, as someone else mentioned in here.

Here's one example path to that. They need to dump two of Compher, Copp, and Tarasenko, which should be a bit easier given the large rise in the cap. Attach assets to them if you have to to get them out the door. Sucks, and it's Yzerman's fault they're here anyway, but it is what it is. Say you can dump Compher and Tarasenko to a cap floor team.

Sign Bennett, Ehlers and Provorov this offseason. Promote ASP and Danielson, and try to get Buchelnikov out of his KHL contract. Try to sign a tougher depth piece like Trent Frederic.

Ehlers-Larkin-Raymond
DeBrincat-Kasper-Bennett
Danielson-Frederic-Buchelnikov
Copp-Rasmussen-Soderblom

Provorov-Seider
Edvinsson-ASP
Chiarot-Johansson
Holl

Talbot
Mrazek/Cossa

There's a clear path to competing next year that isn't completely out to lunch. Obviously adding better guys through trade would be even better. Yzerman did plenty of that in Tampa, it's now time for him to prove that he can do it in Detroit.

That is a nice lineup.

Encouraging tok because nikishin and demidov just left KHL for NHL. So Buch may be a reasonable ask right now.

Provorov would be a perfect fit but he will be expensive. I love Ehlers.

 

[Artaud]

If other teams fans want to actually engage in some meaningful discussion:

Totally agree that there are some major holes on the roster. We need another 2 top 6 forwards, much better depth, and another 2 top 4 D, as someone else mentioned in here.

Here's one example path to that. They need to dump two of Compher, Copp, and Tarasenko, which should be a bit easier given the large rise in the cap. Attach assets to them if you have to to get them out the door. Sucks, and it's Yzerman's fault they're here anyway, but it is what it is. Say you can dump Compher and Tarasenko to a cap floor team.

Sign Bennett, Ehlers and Provorov this offseason. Promote ASP and Danielson, and try to get Buchelnikov out of his KHL contract. Try to sign a tougher depth piece like Trent Frederic.

Ehlers-Larkin-Raymond
DeBrincat-Kasper-Bennett
Danielson-Frederic-Buchelnikov
Copp-Rasmussen-Soderblom

Provorov-Seider
Edvinsson-ASP
Chiarot-Johansson
Holl

Talbot
Mrazek/Cossa

There's a clear path to competing next year that isn't completely out to lunch. Obviously adding better guys through trade would be even better. Yzerman did plenty of that in Tampa, it's now time for him to prove that he can do it in Detroit.

Admitting they can land all of these guys, most of them will have to be on poor contracts since that's the cost of building through FA. They won't outbid the whole league like this without offering bigger contracts similar to Nashville last summer, which will become burdens in due time. Yet the resulting roster looks like a wild card team. They add complimentary players to a group that needs star power.

So even in this best case scenario you laid out, the Wings aren't really close to contending, yet they have the added problem of necessarily burdensome contracts tacked on.

 

[BB88]

There is a lot of parity in the Eastern Conference right now,

Detroit could have easily made it over the Habs and Sens.

Columbus has a good team. Buffalo really came on at the end of the season. No one saw the Rangers not making it. Boston should rebound next year. I for one like Detroit's pieces.

Raymond, Seider, Arvidsson, Kasper, Cossa

Are all some serious young talent to grow around.

They have good talent growing up

I don’t see superstar talent competing with the best

Larkin is already in the middle of his prime, Raymond is starting his prime, DeBrincat is in his prime.
That just lacks that punch against teams like Florida or Tampa

 

[nbwingsfan]

Walman, sent him away with a second, then later SJ flipped him for a first.
There are others,

That’s as bad as trading what ended up being the 7th overall, 39th overall + in 2022 and the 12th overall and two other 2nds in 2023 for Ullmark + Jensen + trash lol. No

The Walman trade sure as hell isn’t as bad as that. Please do name the others you think are just as bad…

 

[CowbellConray]

It's just one plan. I highly, highly, highly doubt either of Bennett and Ehlers get 10M, if so, then sure don't sign either of those guys and look elsewhere.

In what world is ASP not ready? He's crushing the SHL playoffs with 8 pts in 10 games after a great season, and has won top defenseman at the WJC two years in a row. What else could he possibly do to show he's ready for the NHL other than not be a Red Wings prospect lol?

I'm not exactly sure what any of you want - every single plan or option any of us offer or discuss is shot down as "not feasible" or "impossible". Do you want us to just say "you're all right, we have to fire Yzerman, trade Raymond, Seider and Larkin, and rebuild for another 10 years"? Like what are we even doing here?

If someone told you Montreal's plan last year was to have Hutson come in and be an elite #1 play-driving offensive dman, have Suzuki take a big step forward, and have Demidov set KHL records for U20 scoring, what would you have said? How about CBJ having Marchenko become an elite PPG forward? St. Louis having Holloway come out of nowhere to be a play-driving power forward? None of these things were even remotely expected or thought to be "feasible" yet they happened. But if we have even any semblance of a plan that requires some luck to work out, we're unreasonble and it's unfeasible?

There is so much obvious praying and wishing that Detroit will fail in this thread it's hilarious. We get it, every other team's prospects will continue to get better and knock it out of the park, and ours will all fail. Great discussion lmao.

Lindholm banked 7.8 a year with a similar statline to Bennett, and Bennett brings a heavy game that will garner more attention. Let's say instead of 10, its 9 (increase due to cap movement, as well as Bennett's playstyle being very attractive). So $18M for Ehlers and Bennett, and $6M for Provorov wipes your cap out and commits you all to those players on your current roster for at least another 3-4 years.

I'm not trying to pile on, I feel like I've been very honest in my assessment of the team and the situation they are in. If I were the GM, I'm trying to move Tarasenko. Keep Compher and Copp as they are fine on the bottom six. Trade Danielson for a bottom six young center with some minor potential, and sign Pionk in FA - that's my big target. In addition, I'm trying to get a goalie who is actually a true starter from a bad team. Maybe I'm kicking the doors on Saros hard, even with his deal signed. Maybe I can get Gibson and try to bring some stability to the position. Then I need 2 PK specific signings and a new assistant coach to fix the terrible PK.

Kaspar starts in the bottom six where he can develop. Rasmussen/Compher/Copp fight out second line center. Larkin/Debrincat/Raymond are your top line, and on defense we have Seider, Pionk, Edvinsson as top 4 options.

I dont know that the team makes the playoffs, but it leaves some cap for the next season, and hopefully starts to build on a foundation of younger players.

I think options are being shot down because there aren't really any clear fast ones available. Which is why the hate on Yzerman is so strong. He didn't draft supplemental talent 2019-2021, and the guys who fill the gaps dont build a cohesive team.

Regarding ASP - I think throwing a young player who is an offensive talent on the blue line right into the NHL is a risky move. I dont "bank" on him coming in and being a 50 point top 4 D. Dont forget, Hutson is getting the most o-zone starts of ANY defenseman in the league. He is amazing, not doubt, but he is also in a position to succeed through matchups and placement by his coach.

I'm not sure what else to say really - they are in a middling spot of "well, we hope something works". As a Sabres fan who has been in this position for a long time, hoping rarely works

 

[nbwingsfan]

I feel like I'm pretty clear in my evaluation. Yzerman is good with top 6 picks, but has shown to be very average at best with the other first round picks and straight up poor with anything past the middle of the first round. How does he get a pass of "needs more time to evaluate" when he had 31 picks in 2019-2021 and of the 28 after the first round has 1 NHLer. 2019 players are in their D+5 years now...

I'm giving Yzerman credit for selecting good players at 4th and 6th overall. But you aren't giving him the criticism he deserves for his other picks in those drafts. As a neutral fan, can you say Yzerman did a good job in 2019/2020/2021 with his picks after the first round? And as I've stressed, he had more selections in that draft than ANY OTHER TEAM IN THE LEAGUE. Yet, his result was very average in totality. Seider is a low end #1, Raymond is an average 1st line winger, and Edvinsson is a top 4 D with potential. That's great, and those are pieces. But he had 31 picks, and he got 3 very solid players.

Colorado, New Jersey, Ottawa had less picks, less top end picks, and still found impact players as well as NHLers in my examples. That was my point. If you draft one good player every draft, that means you need what, 10 drafts to make a team who can compete? Again, this is why I compare them to Buffalo, who drafted top end talent (with top 3 picks, but point still stands) but did nothing with the rest of their selections, and haven't made the playoffs in over a decade.

I'm more confident in Detroit not making the playoffs for another 2-3 seasons then I am them making the jump. They dont have enough talent on the team or in the ranks. Adding 1 young player every year isn't enough. You need more. And Yzerman in his 5 years, hasn't addressed that (not without trying, it's just he can't evaluate team building from what he has shown).

Please do explain the criticism he “deserves” for his other 1st round picks?

I’ve already clearly stated there have been THREE impact players to date to come out of Rd 2 that you keep narrowing in on. Hes supposed to just make impact players come out of thin air?

 

[nbwingsfan]

He’s one of the main reason Ottawa is in the playoffs. As a Wing fan you should know, he stole two wins from your overall record

He played half the season at a .911sv%… that’s Vezina quality to you?

 

[RedHawkDown]

Lindholm banked 7.8 a year with a similar statline to Bennett, and Bennett brings a heavy game that will garner more attention. Let's say instead of 10, its 9 (increase due to cap movement, as well as Bennett's playstyle being very attractive). So $18M for Ehlers and Bennett, and $6M for Provorov wipes your cap out and commits you all to those players on your current roster for at least another 3-4 years.

I'm not trying to pile on, I feel like I've been very honest in my assessment of the team and the situation they are in. If I were the GM, I'm trying to move Tarasenko. Keep Compher and Copp as they are fine on the bottom six. Trade Danielson for a bottom six young center with some minor potential, and sign Pionk in FA - that's my big target. In addition, I'm trying to get a goalie who is actually a true starter from a bad team. Maybe I'm kicking the doors on Saros hard, even with his deal signed. Maybe I can get Gibson and try to bring some stability to the position. Then I need 2 PK specific signings and a new assistant coach to fix the terrible PK.

Kaspar starts in the bottom six where he can develop. Rasmussen/Compher/Copp fight out second line center. Larkin/Debrincat/Raymond are your top line, and on defense we have Seider, Pionk, Edvinsson as top 4 options.

I dont know that the team makes the playoffs, but it leaves some cap for the next season, and hopefully starts to build on a foundation of younger players.

I think options are being shot down because there aren't really any clear fast ones available. Which is why the hate on Yzerman is so strong. He didn't draft supplemental talent 2019-2021, and the guys who fill the gaps dont build a cohesive team.

Regarding ASP - I think throwing a young player who is an offensive talent on the blue line right into the NHL is a risky move. I dont "bank" on him coming in and being a 50 point top 4 D. Dont forget, Hutson is getting the most o-zone starts of ANY defenseman in the league. He is amazing, not doubt, but he is also in a position to succeed through matchups and placement by his coach.

I'm not sure what else to say really - they are in a middling spot of "well, we hope something works". As a Sabres fan who has been in this position for a long time, hoping rarely works

See this just reeks of having zero understanding of the team. Kasper, since January 1st, has absolutely been playing like a top 6 C and has zero reason to be in the bottom six. He's 10000x the player of Ras/Copp/Compher, none of whom are even remotely competent 2nd line C. Trading Danielson for a bottom six centre is insane given that's like his mid to low-end outcome anyway...

Goalie also hasn't been the issue at all. Talbot has won them several games they had no business being in. Husso was horrible and cost them several games. Outside of acquiring some star goalie, there's little utility in anything other than just letting Cossa and Augustine develop, both of whom look like potential future starters.

Pionk is fine, sure. Provorov for 6 is something i do 8 out of 7 days of the week, that's an easy yes. I'd give 9 to Ehlers but not Bennett - I'm fine doing those two moves and then maybe re-signing Kane at a lower price like 4M for another 1-year deal.

Sure, throwing ASP into the NHL is a risky move, but if he isn't great, then they are kind of screwed on D anyway and need to start looknig else where for a 2nd pairing RD. He has done everything possible in his power to show he is ready for the NHL. He has dominated a professional league all season playing against men. There is zero reason for him to be in the AHL, and he won't be.

The supplemental talent in 19-21 wasn't great, but 22 and 23 look promising. Why is Buchelnikov, for one, being ignored over and over? Has put up phenomenal numbers in the KHL and looks like a young Panarin. He's got sky-high potential. Does he reach it? Probably not. Why would we not put him in a position to succeed and see if he's something special?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Lindholm banked 7.8 a year with a similar statline to Bennett, and Bennett brings a heavy game that will garner more attention. Let's say instead of 10, its 9 (increase due to cap movement, as well as Bennett's playstyle being very attractive). So $18M for Ehlers and Bennett, and $6M for Provorov wipes your cap out and commits you all to those players on your current roster for at least another 3-4 years.

I'm not trying to pile on, I feel like I've been very honest in my assessment of the team and the situation they are in. If I were the GM, I'm trying to move Tarasenko. Keep Compher and Copp as they are fine on the bottom six. Trade Danielson for a bottom six young center with some minor potential, and sign Pionk in FA - that's my big target. In addition, I'm trying to get a goalie who is actually a true starter from a bad team. Maybe I'm kicking the doors on Saros hard, even with his deal signed. Maybe I can get Gibson and try to bring some stability to the position. Then I need 2 PK specific signings and a new assistant coach to fix the terrible PK.

Kaspar starts in the bottom six where he can develop. Rasmussen/Compher/Copp fight out second line center. Larkin/Debrincat/Raymond are your top line, and on defense we have Seider, Pionk, Edvinsson as top 4 options.

I dont know that the team makes the playoffs, but it leaves some cap for the next season, and hopefully starts to build on a foundation of younger players.

I think options are being shot down because there aren't really any clear fast ones available. Which is why the hate on Yzerman is so strong. He didn't draft supplemental talent 2019-2021, and the guys who fill the gaps dont build a cohesive team.

Regarding ASP - I think throwing a young player who is an offensive talent on the blue line right into the NHL is a risky move. I dont "bank" on him coming in and being a 50 point top 4 D. Dont forget, Hutson is getting the most o-zone starts of ANY defenseman in the league. He is amazing, not doubt, but he is also in a position to succeed through matchups and placement by his coach.

I'm not sure what else to say really - they are in a middling spot of "well, we hope something works". As a Sabres fan who has been in this position for a long time, hoping rarely works

Lindholm had a few 70+ point seasons. I don’t think Bennett has one 50+ point season. Bennett isn’t getting 9+.

Second, Kasper’s not going to the bottom 6 to develop with Tarasenko, Berggren, Rasmussen, Copp, Compher and whatever other trash the wings have there next year. He’s already better than these bums. The second line has scored decently with him there even if he’s been cold a couple of games. Raymond and Larkin stopped scoring the second he moved off their line.

Your take is bad.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Stop acting condescending when you contradict yourself post to post. You want it both ways.

This was a cute way of trying to get in the last word while not actually responding to what was said at all, because you realize what you were claiming made zero sense.

Tell me more about how it was Holl and Petry and Chiarot and Copp and Compher whose outstanding play was keeping Detroit from being the worst team in the league.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

That is a nice lineup.

Encouraging tok because nikishin and demidov just left KHL for NHL. So Buch may be a reasonable ask right now.

Provorov would be a perfect fit but he will be expensive. I love Ehlers.

Did Nikishin and Demidov fulfill their contracts though? (I'm actually asking, I dunno) That's the issue with Buchelnikov. He's contracted through 25-26.