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Detroit Redwings Downfall

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dbarthnek96
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le_sean said:
They are able to draft NHLers with their 1st rounders but looking at their drafts since 2017, they’ve got nothing from the 2nd round on, other than Joe Veleno who is a 4th liner. So they’ve tried to expedite the rebuild by filling these holes with mediocre veterans and it’s just not the way to build a competitive team.
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This is true and a very fair point and a very fair criticism.
 
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FriendlyGhost92 said:
Curious what else they were supposed to do beyond pulling the goalie for the whole 3rd.

Keep trying.
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Build a worse team. If the wings truly had guys who were tank proof players at age 20 with a tank roster, but not get into the playoffs players at age 22 with a roster of players supposed to get into the playoffs, that’s probably even more concerning that they might just be destined to be a treadmill team.
 
WarriorofTime said:
Build a worse team. If the wings truly had guys who were tank proof players at age 20 with a tank roster, but not get into the playoffs players at age 22 with a roster of players supposed to get into the playoffs, that’s probably even more concerning that they might just be destined to be a treadmill team.
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The Senators had a tank-proof roster with Sanderson and Stutzle that finished 10 points of the playoffs last year. Are they doomed to be "a treadmill team" forever? Or wait, they just made the playoffs and might grab the 3rd seed in the Atlantic?

Maybe having a good supporting cast around those players is what matters (i.e. what Ottawa did this year with Ullmark/Cozens/Jensen etc), and hence is what Detroit needs to actually fix, and it's not about the star players at all?

You are grasping at straws and I know you're desperate for Detroit to suck since Bedard has not been close to what he was supposed to be so far, but really it's kind of sad to keep moving the goalposts every time you are proven wrong.
 
RedHawkDown said:
The Senators had a tank-proof roster with Sanderson and Stutzle that finished 10 points of the playoffs last year. Are they doomed to be shit forever?

Or maybe having a good supporting cast around those players is what matters, and hence is what Detroit needs to actually fix, and it's not about the star players at all?

You are grasping at straws and I know you're desperate for Detroit to suck since Bedard has not been close to what he was supposed to be so far, but really it's kind of sad to keep moving the goalposts every time you are proven wrong.
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The Senators fired their GM who wasn’t getting the job done and brought in a new GM who did…. Are you suggesting that’s Detroit’s proper course of action?
 
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RedHawkDown said:
You are grasping at straws and I know you're desperate for Detroit to suck since Bedard has not been close to what he was supposed to be so far, but really it's kind of sad to keep moving the goalposts every time you are proven wrong.
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Desperate? Moving goal posts? My man you’re the one that’s now bringing up Bedard who has nothing to do with anything and trying to claim missing the playoffs nine straight years doesn’t “suck” and that drafting high isn’t correlated with “building through the draft”. The goal posts have moved so many times that I don’t know where they even are supposed to. Somehow Detroit being in no man’s land as their 1C plays through his prime is a good thing because it means they’re building a dynasty and a team to win the cup and not Toronto or something. The level of bad faith diversion tactics and “what is Yzerman supposed to do, play without a goalie??!” takes are pretty shocking.
 
WarriorofTime said:
Build a worse team. If the wings truly had guys who were tank proof players at age 20 with a tank roster, but not get into the playoffs players at age 22 with a roster of players supposed to get into the playoffs, that’s probably even more concerning that they might just be destined to be a treadmill team.
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They literally did this and dropped in the lottery repeatedly lmao.

Keep trying.
 
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RedHawkDown said:
Steve Staois was GM last year when they finished far out of the playoffs. You seem lost. Try again?
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GMs aren’t usually fired after one year… you can keep trying to divert and distract but it won’t change that Ottawa has a better core, tried to get to the playoffs, saw what wasn’t working and made a change which has paid off. Detroit appears content to keep riding it out, picking 10th and “wait for the kids” until that turns into a cup winner somehow.
 
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FriendlyGhost92 said:
They literally did this and dropped in the lottery repeatedly lmao.

Keep trying.
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Exactly. That’s what Yzerman needed to do. Keep trying. Instead he tanked once, shrugged his shoulders and said we lost the lotto. Then got a bunch of middling vets and built a mediocre team.
 
WarriorofTime said:
Desperate? Moving goal posts? My man you’re the one that’s now bringing up Bedard who has nothing to do with anything and trying to claim missing the playoffs nine straight years doesn’t “suck” and that drafting high isn’t correlated with “building through the draft”. The goal posts have moved so many times that I don’t know where they even are supposed to. Somehow Detroit being in no man’s land as their 1C plays through his prime is a good thing because it means they’re building a dynasty and a team to win the cup and not Toronto or something. The level of bad faith diversion tactics and “what is Yzerman supposed to do, play without a goalie??!” takes are pretty shocking.
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Can you show me where I said either of these things? You once again made this up entirely.

Let's say they drafted Raymond, Seider, and Edvinsson all 2nd overall instead of 6/6/4. Is the rebuild now in the right spot bc they tanked for a top 3 pick 3 times in a row?
 
WarriorofTime said:
Yzerman’s decision to “build through the draft” is a bit confusing as to why he only tanked once and never got a top 3 pick, then promptly gave up on the tank. The wings have spent multiple years in a position of not making the playoffs and not being in a spot to draft the most highly regarded draft prospects. This is commonly cited as “no man’s land” and often considered the worst place to be within a team’s cycle. If Yzerman’s “plan” hinges on finding his superstars with like the tenth overall pick that’s not much of a plan, that’s just hoping to get lucky.
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He has got the 2nd best player in 2019 (arguably top of Hughes keeps missing games, and arguably the best in both 2020 and 2021 drafts as well….

2022 NHL draft doesn’t have a clear difference maker yet

There was no real way they were getting into the bottom 3 in 2023. Sure he could have had the team lose a couple games and get someone like Leonard, but it’s obviously to early to call that a loss when most of that draft class either isn’t in the NHL yet or have just started.

What would tanking those 3 extra years have done to help them, exactly?
 
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Detroit suffered the same way the Sabres did in 2022-2024. They have subpar goaltending and mentally struggle in big moments. They have had losing streaks this year of 6 games, 5 games, 4 games, and 2X3 games. That's 21 losses across 5 stretches of gameplay. Unfortunately, their miracle run last season (very very similar to the Sabres in 22-23, wasn't enough and this year they didnt take a step up like their division competitors Ottawa and Montreal.

Their roster is OK, but lacks in key areas:

1) Goaltending isn't consistent
2) ES Scoring is poor - relied on a top 5 PP
3) League worst PK

They lack secondary scoring, and their top players aren't really spectacular in two way play (Kane, Debrincat, Raymond (is better but still not great)). Larkin is their true star, and they have a bad defense besides Seider.

Compare that to the Sabres in 2022-23:
1) Top 10 PP, bottom 3 PK
2) Bad Goaltending
3) Dahlin and nobody else on the backend
4) Tuch/Thompson the only decent ES players, Skinner bad defense, Cozens bad defense. Lacked secondary scoring behind Thompson/Tuch/Skinner/Cozens (Mitts was good to be fair).

They need 1-2 more top 6 options on offense, and another top 4 D. Do they throw a bunch of money at Pionk? Do they try to go after Marner? IDK, but they also need an upgrade at goalie.

In addition, they need to get their PK sorted out, as being under 70% is ATROCIOUS. I dont see many good young forwards in the pipeline other than Kasper, so you really need to try to trade for a young top 6 option, or sign somebody at an overpayment.
 
Just so we're clear, Red Wings fans are happy with Detroit's drafting since 2021 correct?

Brandsegg-Nygard, Plante, Becher, Danielson, Sandin-Pellika, Augustine, Gibson, Cleveland, Dower-Nilsson, Kasper, James, Buchelnikov, Edvinsson, Cossa, Buium, Mazur?

That's 6 first round picks, 9 second round picks, 3 third round picks in the Top 100 for the past four years.

You guys and girls are all good with this yeah?
 
Price is Wright said:
Just so we're clear, Red Wings fans are happy with Detroit's drafting since 2021 correct?

Brandsegg-Nygard, Plante, Becher, Danielson, Sandin-Pellika, Augustine, Gibson, Cleveland, Dower-Nilsson, Kasper, James, Buchelnikov, Edvinsson, Cossa, Buium, Mazur?

That's 6 first round picks, 9 second round picks, 3 third round picks in the Top 100 for the past four years.

You guys and girls are all good with this yeah?
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Gibson is gone.

He was traded for Kiiskinen and a 2nd
 
WarriorofTime said:
Higher ceiling prospects/better future
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Who?

They got the 2nd best player in 2019 with the 6th overall pick. NJ won Hughes as like the 9th best team… how would losing more have helped?

They literally did come last in 2020. They lost all three lottery picks, and STILL got arguably the best player in that draft

2021, in basically all re-drafts, it’s 50/50 between Edvinsson and Hughes for 1st overall. So how exactly would being worse have helped them too?

2022 there isn’t really anyone standing out as a clear #1/2. Cooley maybe? Way too early to say here

2023 is the only year where he could have “lost more” and made a meaningful difference. Which ironically enough, is a year he majorly sold at the deadline, trading off Hronek and Bertuzzi. There was absolutely no way Detroit was going to be as bad as Columbus/Chicago. Literally no chance without trading off our already good players. We could have dropped down a few more spots here and got Leonard/Michkov for sure, who are likely going to be better than Danielson, but it’s also too early to declare that as fact either, especially for Leonard

2024 same applies to the bottom 5 teams. They missed the post season by 1pt. Saying they should have just traded off everyone and bottomed out is just ridiculous

So I’ll ask again… who are these top prospects they realistically missed out on?
 
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