It was Ken Holland who traded a 1st for Kyle Quincey....Yzerman used that 1st to draft Vasilevskiy.
Unless I'm somehow misreading your point.
It was Ken Holland who traded a 1st for Kyle Quincey....Yzerman used that 1st to draft Vasilevskiy.
Unless I'm somehow misreading your point.
OldCraig71
Registered User
I saw it differently. they out hit us and out-chanced us by a heavy margin, but for some reason, they all shot the puck in the same area, trying to beat Montembeault. After like 10 attempts, they gave away what they were trying to accomplish. The empty net miss by one of your players was the backbreaker.
The Habs always seem to struggle in the first period of games and dont seem to play hockey till down a goal or two. We have relied heavily on Monty to save us but have also gotten clutch performances from guys you wouldn't really expect to lean on for wins.
Do I need to repeat that Ottawa has little no help on the way? Who's coming in to push Ottawa from what they are now to a contender? Yakemchuk and who?
Maybe if they hadn't shot their own dick off with stuff like picking Tyler Boucher and trading for Debrincat and Chychrun they wouldn't be knocking on their ceiling right now.
Who's going to save Detroit? Nate Danielson and his 11 goals in 65 AHL games? Michael Brandsegg-Nygard and his 5 goals in 42 games in the SHL?
None of Detroit's prospects other than Sandin-Pellikka, who could very well be Makar 2.0, are anything special. MAYBE Sebastian Cossa can be a capable goalie at the NHL level, except they're keeping him buried in the AHL for another year through 2026.
Golden_Jet
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2005
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I’d take Ullmark over Cat, but thanks for your concerns.
FYI that GM your referencing isn’t in the league anymore. It’s like posters talking about Holland before Yzerman took over
. So your lowering yourself to those levels now?
TheDoldrums
Registered User
You realize that both Kasper and Raymond's stats sucked in the same respective years, in the same respective leagues, right?
I’d take Ullmark over Cat, but thanks for your concerns.
FYI that GM your referencing isn’t in the league anymore. It’s like posters talking about Holland before Yzerman took over
So your lowering yourself to those levels now?
That GM may not be in the league anymore, but the damage he did to Ottawa still matters, just like Detroit still feels the damage Holland did.
Big Trout
Registered User
- Dec 8, 2021
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Holland have been gone for how many years now? That excuse has long sailed.
While I definitely don't disagree with the first part and don't even necessarily disagree with the second I'd say the much bigger difference between Ottawa and Detroit this year is that Ottawa has finally found better players for the middle and bottom of their lineups while Detroit hasn't
Golden_Jet
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2005
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I’d say that, adding some vets helped there, players committed to playing better 2-way hockey and goaltending.
newfy
Registered User
- Jul 28, 2010
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If someone is 6 feet 200 pounds and another player is 6'3 200 pounds, I'm not really going to make a big deal out of the height difference, especially when the 6 footer plays bigger.
But your point said nothing about generational talents, you said teams don't win built around small wingers. Its just a weird argument to make when the best performers of the last 15 years are small wingers and Marchessault is coming off a Conn Smythe as well. You win with good hockey players, all kinds of cup teams have been built differently
There's absolutely room for a guy like Debrincat in a contenders top 6
Seems like a lot of the games they've lost under McLellan have been closer to last nights game than games they lost under Lalonde.
I think the biggest issue with that is that if the top 6 isn't scoring, they haven't gotten any scoring out of their depth. They don't have a superstar in the top 6 but they have 2 solid lines. But to win with a line up like that you have to get some scoring out of the bottom of the line up. Getting some guys like Mazur and Danielson in the line up should help that, but the bottom 6 needs a serious retool
The Gr8 Dane
L'harceleur
Dotter getting destroyed in here , Rightfully so , some of the worst takes I've seen on the site
OldCraig71
Registered User
You're right. Leaving the organization with Anthony Mantha as the 2nd best player and Zadina and Veleno as their top prospects should not have lasting effects.
Big Trout
Registered User
- Dec 8, 2021
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They did have Larkin... Zadina had value back then, it's just been long enough that it shouldn't really be relevant anymore but he did leave the Wings in a pitiful state I agree with that.You're right. Leaving the organization with Anthony Mantha as the 2nd best player and Zadina and Veleno as their top prospects should not have lasting effects.
it's so odd to criticize Ottawa for having their young players up in the NHL and contributing, instead of sitting in the minors and putting up solid but unspectacular numbers. Ottawa's roster is the 3rd youngest in the league already, and all of their core players are in their 20s; why would they want to inject more youth in the lineup?
The point Ottawa is at literally where Detroit wants to be in 1/2/3 years. The point where their draft picks are actually helping their team win, instead of being a perpetual mental crutch for their despairing fans. If your team's playoff hopes rest on promoting guys from the AHL/NCAA/Europe, your team is not ready to make the playoffs. Because that's not "help", it's just lack of depth.
"They had Larkin though" is essentially the equivalent of saying Chicago should be good with Bedard lol. Doesn't really matter if the rest of the team blows.
And no, it hasn't been long enough. The guy has literally said from day one and repeated that he's building through the draft. Up until this year, Detroit only had two Yzerman picks graduated to the NHL.
He will have failed when his draft picks start busting. They haven't yet.
Big Trout
Registered User
- Dec 8, 2021
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Pavels Dog
Registered User
Good thing Kasper is trending closer to "Larkin" than "Copp".
Yes, so much better.
Since January 1st, goals:
Kasper - 14
Tarasenko - 6
Compher - 5
Copp - 3
I'll do the math for you - Kasper has as many goals as Tarasenko/Compher/Copp combined in that stretch of games.
There's also other areas, like Kasper's actual play and how much he brings beyond scoring.
Hits (full season):
Kasper - 147
Tarasenko - 60
Compher - 27
Copp - 9
I'll do the math again - Kasper has more hits than Tarasenko/Compher/Copp combined. As a rookie.
That trio is fairly similar. I think Ottawa's players are just slightly older, more established, and they've gone all-in towards making the playoffs by selling off the future. Different strategies of rebuilding and it makes sense that Ottawa's more effective in the short-term.
The Sens have all their young core locked up for affordable long-term contracts, so the lack of good prospects isnt concerning. Florida, Tampa, and Vegas became top teams through good trades and free agent signings, not prospects. The core of Sanderson, Chabot, Zub, Stutzle, Tkachuk, Cozens, Batherson, Pinto aren't going anywhere for a long time. Ullmark has 4 years left on his deal. Why do they need prospect help? They'll replace Giroux, Perron, and Jensen with good free agent signings or veterans in trade in 1-3 years, depending how much each player has left.
Staios seems to be able to sign quality free agents, Perron and Amadio were key players, I have no doubt he'll continue to make good secondary signings, as the Sens' new pro scouts did a great job. It's a mystery why Detroit let Perron go, he's been 1 or the Sens best players the last 2 months. Replacing him with the washed up Tarasenko didn't work. Yzerman's free agent signings have been quite poor. Compher, Chiarot, Gustafson, Motte and multiple goalies were mostly flops, that'll likely continue. Kane was a good signing.
The Chychrun and ADB trades were dumb, but at least Staios turned the 1st rounder picked up for ADB into Ullmark.
To be fair, Detroit isn't terrible, but they get out-goaltended regularly, which is their biggest problem. If one of their 2 prospect goalies becomes top 10 in the league, their main problems are solved. Having a thin defense is a lesser problem. We'll see if Cossa becomes thst good, it's no guarantee. Our top prospect goalie, Merilainen, had a much better season then Cossa.
Bottom line, if Detroit picks up a top 10 goalie, they will make the playoffs next season, it's not that complicated. Or if they're lucky and Cossa is one right away, although that usually takes a few years.
How in the world did you take that as a criticism that Ottawa has their young players up and contributing?
The criticism literally was that Ottawa either f***ed up or sold picks for three drafts straight and now don't have young players on the verge of contributing outside the NHL.
You're right. Leaving the organization with Anthony Mantha as the 2nd best player and Zadina and Veleno as their top prospects should not have lasting effects.
Let it go. Holland hasn't been the general manager since 2019.
Holland didn't sign Justin Holl. Holland didn't sign the underwhelming JT Compher and Andrew Copp to 5 year deals for 2nd line forward money. Holland didn't acquire Jeff Petry. Holland didn't dump Walman for literally nothing only to watch as another club acquired a 1st round pick in return for him months later. Holland didn't sign Tarasenko (though I don't think anyone expected him to be THIS bad.)
At some point, Yzerman needs to be held accountable for the moves that he's made. He's been the GM now since 2019. We're nearly midway through 2025. The "blame Ken Holland" card stopped being valid in 2023.
This is 100% Yzerman's team. The only two leftovers from Holland are Larkin and Rasmussen, and up until recently, Veleno. Yzerman didn't acquire them, but extended them all.
Compher, in terms of salary vs performance, was by far our worst player behind Holl (who is on another planet of uselessness).
It’s no coincidence a Holl mistake and a Compher missed open net lost us the most important game of the season.
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