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Detroit Redwings Downfall

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FriendlyGhost92 said:
Right... Because Yzerman's done a terrible job with the Larkin/Seider/Raymond contracts without the tax advantages. :help:

The takeaway is that Yzerman's Achilles' Heel is his pro scouting.
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I wouldn't even blame it on his pro scouting, rather on the veterans brought in not being the right choices for his gameplan. I see Detroit fans saying that it isn't important as these are only placeholders for the build through the draft strategy. That might be so, but if the plan is to wait on your picks, at least bring in guys not to win games, but rather to advance that mentality. The young players need to be surrounded by players that either are good locker room leaders, or set the example on the ice, or are good teachers for the youth.

I don't follow Detroit enough to single out individual players, but as a Habs fan am very familiar with Petry. In his time in Montreal he was very good when paired with another veteran defenseman but saw a dip any time he was paired with a young player, as opposed to say David Savard at the time. If it is to help develop the youth, something is wrong if the veterans play on the bottom pairs with each other rather than besides a youngster you are trying to integrate.

I also think he is a bit to hesitant to throw the prospects into the lineup. I wonder how many years players like Caufield, Slaf, Dobes, and Hutson would marinate in GR if they were in the Detroit organization instead.
 
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HABitual Fan said:
I wouldn't even blame it on his pro scouting, rather on the veterans brought in not being the right choices for his gameplan. I see Detroit fans saying that it isn't important as these are only placeholders for the build through the draft strategy. That might be so, but if the plan is to wait on your picks, at least bring in guys not to win games, but rather to advance that mentality. The young players need to be surrounded by players that either are good locker room leaders, or set the example on the ice, or are good teachers for the youth.

I don't follow Detroit enough to single out individual players, but as a Habs fan am very familiar with Petry. In his time in Montreal he was very good when paired with another veteran defenseman but saw a dip any time he was paired with a young player, as opposed to say David Savard at the time. If it is to help develop the youth, something is wrong if the veterans play on the bottom pairs with each other rather than besides a youngster you are trying to integrate.

I also think he is a bit to hesitant to throw the prospects into the lineup. I wonder how many years players like Caufield, Slaf, Dobes, and Hutson would marinate in GR if they were in the Detroit organization instead.
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I mean Slaf probably could've used some more development before being thrust into the lineup and Dobes is almost 24...
 
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FriendlyGhost92 said:
I mean Slaf probably could've used some more development before being thrust into the lineup and Dobes is almost 24...
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When the goal was rebuilding, not winning, you play Slaf where you believe he will develop better, Dobes is not much older than Cossa, and in his rookie season as a pro. Did Yzerman leave the door open for Cossa or instead traded for a third veteran goalie for next season?

As to what I wrote about the role of the veterans, I forgot to mention an interview with Marty St Louis a couple of weeks ago. He mentioned the role the veterans are playing in the improvement of the team, and mentioned a quote he read somewhere, something to the effect that
"you need men willing to plant trees, knowing they will never get to sit in the shade"
 
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Archijerej said:
Do people really believe in a "building through the draft exclusively" strategy?

It sounds absurd. Prospects, by definition, are an uncertain thing. A GM that leans so heavily on the draft, forfeits willingly the value of draft picks and pre-bust stage prospects as trade currency. He also limits himself in terms of team building, because he has limited control over which prospects (in terms of position, style etc.) develop into NHL players.

Not here to offer my opinion on Yzerman one way or the other. Just this one aspect that was brought up in this thread, which doesn't make sense to me. It really sounds more like a PR effort to cover for bad signings/trades.
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100%. It's on the Yzerbot excuses Greatest Hits album along with "the vets are just placeholders, they weren't meant to be good", "look at what he inherited", "there's no point in making the playoffs until they're ready to win", and "he's building a dynasty".
 
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Soderblom is an exciting player. Kasper is already their #2 center and looks good being there. He's only 20. AJ is a relied on PKer as a rookie dman.

Missing the playoffs is less concerning when you see the kids excel at the helm.

Holl is a disaster. He can't skate and doesn't know what to do with the puck. That signing was a mistake. You have to think Yzerman is thrilled to be drafting top 10-14 again.
 
Wings out there playing Seider 27 minutes like it's Game 7 of the Playoffs which I guess it was. A 24 year old "kid" cited two posts above being praised for playing on the penalty kill played 13 minutes. I said Wings probably should still be tanking back in 2022-23, but looks like they're gonna pick between 8th and 16th for the fourth straight year instead. Guess they just gotta keep waiting for more 24 year old "kids". Well on track for a dynasty.
 
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WarriorofTime said:
Wings out there playing Seider 27 minutes like it's Game 7 of the Playoffs which I guess it was. A 24 year old "kid" cited two posts above being praised for playing on the penalty kill played 13 minutes. I said Wings probably should still be tanking back in 2022-23, but looks like they're gonna pick between 8th and 16th for the fourth straight year instead. Guess they just gotta keep waiting for more 24 year old "kids". Well on track for a dynasty.
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If only finishing dead last guaranteed a 1st overall pick that was a sure fire HoF career.
 
WarriorofTime said:
What's the alternative? Have a little bit better vets and pick 10th for multiple straight years? That's just straight into No Man's Land.
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There isn't any alternative - at least nothing obvious.

We're now in the twilight zone of mediocrity...Waiting and hoping our kids are good enough to replace the aging vets and are capable of doing a better job.
 
Dotter said:
Soderblom is an exciting player. Kasper is already their #2 center and looks good being there. He's only 20. AJ is a relied on PKer as a rookie dman.

Missing the playoffs is less concerning when you see the kids excel at the helm.

Holl is a disaster. He can't skate and doesn't know what to do with the puck. That signing was a mistake. You have to think Yzerman is thrilled to be drafting top 10-14 again.
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jim.jpg
 
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WarriorofTime said:
Wings out there playing Seider 27 minutes like it's Game 7 of the Playoffs which I guess it was. A 24 year old "kid" cited two posts above being praised for playing on the penalty kill played 13 minutes. I said Wings probably should still be tanking back in 2022-23, but looks like they're gonna pick between 8th and 16th for the fourth straight year instead. Guess they just gotta keep waiting for more 24 year old "kids". Well on track for a dynasty.
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When Wings were on their amazing winning streak he was averaging 19-20 minutes per night. You said Yzerman can't draft in the later rounds, yet here we have a future top 4 drafted in the 2nd round. Now you are attacking his age.

You are so predictable. :facepalm:

btw, he'd be a #1 on your team.

And I agree, Seider is a BEAST.
 
Dotter said:
When Wings were on their amazing winning streak he was averaging 19-20 minutes per night. You said Yzerman can't draft in the later rounds, yet here we have a future top 4 drafted in the 2nd round. Now you are attacking his age.

You are so predictable. :facepalm:

btw, he'd be a #1 on your team.

And I agree, Seider is a BEAST.
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Vlasic >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Albert
 
Dotter said:
When Wings were on their amazing winning streak he was averaging 19-20 minutes per night. You said Yzerman can't draft in the later rounds, yet here we have a future top 4 drafted in the 2nd round. Now you are attacking his age.

You are so predictable. :facepalm:

btw, he'd be a #1 on your team.

And I agree, Seider is a BEAST.
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You need to look around the League more if you think a 2nd round pick, 24 year old Defenseman, averaging about 14 minutes a game in the do or die two most important weeks of the season is an exciting pick or testament to great drafting. I'm sure he'll sign some crappy little 2-year bridge deal and then be on his way to bounce around the League for a bit as he approaches UFA years. Unless Yzerman is on that Ken Holland "make every random depth player a career Wing, because hey, remember the Grind Line" strategy
 
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Dotter said:
That was the look on my face as Detroit dominated and outshot MTL for 60 minutes. Gonna be fun watching them in the playoffs... can't wait!!!!

After they lose in 4 can we talk about how special it was?
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You must have had a jolly ol time watching Hutson cooking a 3 star michelin meal out of chicken wings
 
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bert said:
Show me other teams that win anything significant with undersized wingers making 8 million or more. Just doesnt happen. Debrincat finally had a great year, good for him they still missed. He was terrible in Ottawa. He wasnt great last year in Detroit. Its not a philosophy I abide by. Historically its not a recipe for success.
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I'm not a big fan of building with small players at all, but talent is talent. Literally, the arguably 2 best playoff performers of the last 15 years are undersized wingers that make over 8 million a year though. Any discussion of Debrincat in this thread is stupid, hes not part of the problem at all.
Frobbo said:
"Yzerman started from scratch" He traded Athanasiou, Hronek, Bertuzzi and Mantha (from the Holland regime) for 3-1sts, 4 2nds +. Holland had also kept all of DRW original picks. It pushed back the time frame of the rebuild but that was SY's choice. People overexaggerate that he started with very little. It may not have been a lot but it wasn't nothing. It created part of this prospect pool that his supporters keep talking up.
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Compare those names to the names Ottawa moved and youll see why Ottawa is a bit ahead right now. Yzerman also traded Hronek and Bertuzzi in 2023, if youre going to bring those names up, you also have to give the assets they were traded for time.

Your listed group from the wings vs prime Karlsson, prime Mark Stone, Hoffman and 22 year old Zibanejad.... do you really think its comparable?
 
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