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Detroit Redwings Downfall

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The Flying Octopus said:
Imagine giving up assets to miss the playoffs while Detroit stands pat and keeps their prospects. I can’t wait for the actual Yzerplan to come knocking, bc it’s coming.
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Yeah we should all be terrified of the Yzerplan haha
 
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The Wings were displaying chemistry and cohesiveness, even if their talent level wasn't necessarily equal to their opponents. Now, for some reason, that's gone - and it makes for a very poor watch.
 
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OccidentalOctopus said:
Oh look, it's this thread again.

Someone please tell me why, since we haven't been in the Playoffs for so long, this is a relevant thread?

Come on, mods. You're better than this. Or not, I don't know. I had a 16 year old account banned for questioning a mod decision. Your choice.

As a Wings fan, this is simply a poor joke. As a hockey fan, who wants to keep seeing this stupid thread about a mediocre, irrelevant team bumped?

I asked about other teams before. First page, two locked threads. Nobody is asking about other teams' downfall or problems. Or issues. Or anything. I don't care that it happened before, this is now. We're looking at now, now.

When will then be now? As soon as this stupid f***ing thread is locked down. Serious bias being shown here by "moderators," which, by definition, are "People who facilitate and guide discussions, debates, or events, ensuring they stay on track, are engaging, and adhere to established guidelines and time limits, while also maintaining a neutral and respectful environment."

None of this thread is being "moderated" at all.
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'Ignore Thread'

Bye.
 
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dragonballgtz said:
I didn't watch the game just the replays and yeah... it seemed like no one stood up Raymond. That's absolutely insane!
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It's been the hardest thing to watch about the Wings the past few seasons. Not the collapses, or the awful defense, or the swiss cheese goaltending.

They're just 10 ply soft, and that allows teams that are worse than the Wings to dominate them. Not saying that's the case for Ottawa, but definitely the case for teams like Philly and Anaheim.
 
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The team wasn't nearly as soft and wasn't getting bullied when they had Bertuzzi on the roster. He actually stood up for his teammates and everyone else followed.
 
LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
#1 mentioning yourself in the same breath as Buffalo is not something you want to do,
That is arguably the worst run team in all of sports, not just hockey, all of sports.

And the ONLY reason I say arguably is because the New York Jets are a thing that exists.

As for Chicago they at least have Bedard, and Ottawa problems were mostly ownership based, once Ownership changed would you look at that they got better.

Are they going to make it in? I don't know but even if they don't they are a hell of a lot closer then Detroit because they actually did things to get better.

#2 Yes it does it literally has they were in a playoff spot, now they aren't even close. I know, I know you are going to say "they are only 3 points back."

On the surface that's true in reality there are 4 teams ahead of them and 2 of those teams played eachother last night and both got points you aren't close.

#3 they could have used that deadline space to get a longer term piece that actually matter instead of 2 guys on their last legs.

#4 is just correct the off season signings have been bad that's not even up for debate, sure you need vets to insulate the youth but those vets need to be able to contribute.

#5 that prospect pool is not impressive having 1 elite prospect is not good enough for the amount of time the wings have been out of the playoffs.

Matthews
Marner
Nylander
Hyman
Kapanen
Johnsson
Brown.

That's what a rebuilding prospect pool that has drafted near the top of the draft should look like.

And I know what you are going to say.

"there is a 1st overall pick there."

OK

But there is also a 4th overall pick like you.

An 8th overall pick like you

A 6th round pick

A 7th round pick

A steal of a trade with the panthers

And a guy they plucked from Pittsburgh.

Every single one them would go on to become at least a 20 goal scorer and the top 3 are MUCH better then that.

Where is your 6th or 7th rounder that becomes a 20 goal scorer for you?

you don't have it you aren't finding those late round steals that every team needs if they are going to be contenders.

Hell where is your 2nd round steal? You don't have it, you could have but passed on him his name is Matthew Knies.

Beyond the top picks Yzerman isn't good at drafting, at least not in Detroit
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Kapanen, Johnnson and brown are irrelevant players to mention. The leafs also won the lottery, which the highest the red wings have picked is 4. I think yzerman has done a lot of things wrong but criticizing the drafting is not one of those things. If you’re gonna shit on the wings do it for the right reasons. Because I guarantee you if they won a lottery and had a Matthews level talent on their team that would shut up a lot of criticism.
 
The second wildcard east spot is incredibly soft. Five teams are all very close but are all playing terribly right now. Currently Montreal is in the lead for it and on pace for 86 points which is not a good season. I guess the guy insisting sneaking into the playoffs is irrelevant will put his theory to the test if the wings string together a few wins.
 
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Sens With Benefits said:
Props to Edvisson for fighting Brady, but that was Brady sticking up for Stützle. How did no one go after Brady for mauling Raymond? Detroit gets bullied, no one does anything about it.
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Talk to our GM who has assembled a notoriously soft team. I will say at least the guys who actually play physical or are in the thick of it are our draft picks and our future core players. But the team yzerman has assembled around them is abysmal.
 
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Sens With Benefits said:
Props to Edvisson for fighting Brady, but that was Brady sticking up for Stützle. How did no one go after Brady for mauling Raymond? Detroit gets bullied, no one does anything about it.
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Wings don't have "that guy" , they had Watson in the line up but he couldn't keep up with the puck... by the time he went to hit someone the play was gone 5 seconds ago. They are incredibly soft throughout the line up and the guys who aren't soft are not fighters. Debrincat is the most likely to drop the mitts of anyone on any given night.
 
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bert said:
I think the Raymond and Seider picks were incredible just not enough of those.
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Every 1st round pick Yzerman has made looks somewhere from good to incredible. Drafting is not the issue.

Frobbo said:
One thing that doesn't get a lot of play is SY's pursuit of Trouba and Stamkos by all reports. I would be very concerned about my front office if they thought this would be very helpful.
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Both would have been good adds at the right price. Criticizing Yzerman for kicking tires and not being willing to overpay seems nitpicky.

LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
You should have 2 or 3 elite prospects not 1.
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Seider, Edvinsson, Raymond, ASP, Augustine, Cossa, Kasper etc.

Mr Nogatco said:
If they hadn’t absolutely collapsed around game 60 each of the last 3 years, they could be going into the playoffs with 2-3 years/rounds of postseason experience. Instead, it would be their first time playing meaningful hockey as a team and I think expectations would be necessarily tempered as a result.

I would much rather my team learn some of the harsh lessons of playoff hockey as they are ascending to relevance
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Very few teams have played as many meaningful regular season games as the Wings the last few seasons. That's experience too.
Bigger problem is a GM can't just choose to make the playoffs. "If the team hadn't collapsed".. well, they did. Not sure what your gameplan would be? Give up the entire rebuild because they failed to get 4 games of playoff experience and without that, there's no hope?

WarriorofTime said:
DeBrincat is 27 and has two years after this one. He’s in his prime. Good example of Yzerman not knowing what his timeline is. Is he a placeholder or a guy that was supposed to help the wings take an important step?
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Not sure I understand. Let's say the timeline is to become a playoff team next season, why wouldn't Debrincat be part of that?
 
Pavels Dog said:
Not sure I understand. Let's say the timeline is to become a playoff team next season, why wouldn't Debrincat be part of that?
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And then what? Extend at UFA price and hope his 30s are good? Let him go and hope someone in the prospect pool is as good? The issue with the unclear timeline is Yzerman sometimes makes it seem like the timeline to win is the more immediate future but then in other instances has to face that certain key roster players will be aging or need replacement in a few seasons. It’s unclear if Wings have much of a window outside of maybe 1-2 seasons when you look through their situation of some core players in their prime along with non-tanked picks in the wings, then questions arise on what that window is. Like they can probably have a good team in 2028-29 with 32 year old Larkin, 31 year old extended DeBrincat, 26 year old Raymond, 27 year old Seider, 25 year old Edvinsson, 24 year old Kasper, 24 year old Danielson, 23 year old Sandin-Pellika, 23 year old Brandsegg-Nygard.

Is it enough and will it last for multiple years? Idk. Seems a lot more uncertain minus some franchise player emerging out of nowhere
 
JohanFranzenstein said:
It's been the hardest thing to watch about the Wings the past few seasons. Not the collapses, or the awful defense, or the swiss cheese goaltending.

They're just 10 ply soft, and that allows teams that are worse than the Wings to dominate them. Not saying that's the case for Ottawa, but definitely the case for teams like Philly and Anaheim.
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I'm a broken record, but those gritty guys overwhelmingly come from NA in general and Canada in particular. Our scouts draft low skill physical guys then a certain segment of the fanbase moves the goalposts by trying to focus on the latest batch of draft prospects.

The organization's current best bets at being 'that guy'
  • John Whipple: 3 assists in his D+1 season at a good Minnesota program
  • Brady Cleveland: 3 points in his D+2 season, but 39 PIMs
Guys who are fading from memory
  • Tnias Mathurin: 23 points in his D+3 season in the OHL
  • Red Savage: Elite name, 11 points in his D+4 season
  • Donovan Sebrango: 16 points, 64 PIMs in his D+5 season; AHL'er
  • Chase Bradley: AHL'er: 20 points, 38 PIMs in his D+5 season
  • Antii Tuomisto: Looks like an AHL'er, 24 points, 38 PIMs
  • Albin Grewe: Like Tuomisto, another physical guy from Europe who isn't going to hit
  • Jared McIsaac: injuries played a role, but he's now playing in Europe
For the people who are going to jump in and defend the DRW's NA scouting department, yes I understand there are excuses for why we cannot draft quality players out of North America. There are no shortage of excuses.
 
Pavels Dog said:
Not sure I understand. Let's say the timeline is to become a playoff team next season, why wouldn't Debrincat be part of that?
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If you are still waiting for prospects from the pipeline to come in and make an impact, you multiple years away from making the playoffs. And five plus from making any noise. Prospect take years to become impact players.
 
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Dotter said:
He came back and made a sick play to Raymond, and Lucas undressed Ullmark with a sexy goal. Also, Sanderson is a giveaway machine.
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The same Ullmark that shutdown the Wings power plays in the 1st? The same Sanderson who shutdown the Wings on those power plays? 0-5
 
WarriorofTime said:
And then what? Extend at UFA price and hope his 30s are good? Let him go and hope someone in the prospect pool is as good? The issue with the unclear timeline is Yzerman sometimes makes it seem like the timeline to win is the more immediate future but then in other instances has to face that certain key roster players will be aging or need replacement in a few seasons. It’s unclear if Wings have much of a window outside of maybe 1-2 seasons when you look through their situation of some core players in their prime along with non-tanked picks in the wings, then questions arise on what that window is. Like they can probably have a good team in 2028-29 with 32 year old Larkin, 31 year old extended DeBrincat, 26 year old Raymond, 27 year old Seider, 25 year old Edvinsson, 24 year old Kasper, 24 year old Danielson, 23 year old Sandin-Pellika, 23 year old Brandsegg-Nygard.

Is it enough and will it last for multiple years? Idk. Seems a lot more uncertain minus some franchise player emerging out of nowhere
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Yes, either re-sign or let him go and spend that money elsewhere. It's good flexibility to have on a player like Debrincat who, while he's been great this year, is not the type of core piece you should necessarily lock yourself into for 8 years.

Timeline being uncertain is just life. From an outside perspective this season seems to have made you more stressed and uncertain about the Wings. From my view, the emergence of Kasper and Edvinsson, along with other prospect developments, has made me more confident in the long-term future, despite the current roster having such issues.

TotalHomer said:
If you are still waiting for prospects from the pipeline to come in and make an impact, you multiple years away from making the playoffs. And five plus from making any noise. Prospect take years to become impact players.
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It's not waiting for every piece - it's a sliding scale and eventually it starts tipping over. It's forming a puzzle but having to wait for enough pieces to take shape to know where something is missing or which pieces you have duplicates of and can ship out.
 
Coach Reggie Dunlop said:
Talk to our GM who has assembled a notoriously soft team. I will say at least the guys who actually play physical or are in the thick of it are our draft picks and our future core players. But the team yzerman has assembled around them is abysmal.
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If Yzermans name was Bob Smith and he wasn’t a Hall of Fame beloved Red Wing, every Wings fan would want him gone.

There are some that do, but some just blindly worship him, despite Detroit staggering for the last 3 years.
 
Mr Hat said:
What assets did Ottawa give up? They traded for a younger healthier center (Cozen vs Norris) and picked up Zetterlund and a 2nd for spare parts. They came out of deadline asset positive and younger and more balanced. All the assets were already spent by our previous dumb GM and late owner who combined had half a brain.

Don’t get me wrong, Ottawa window is short and cupboards are still empty but can enjoy a few years of being decent before it’s time for a retool.
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Retool again ? Ottawa is the definition of retooling year after year. Rather miss the playoffs and retool for longevity vs trading for assets that won’t be part of that “retool.”
 
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