Detroit Redwings Downfall

[FMichael]

Woah. Insert this much copium into the reactor at Chernobyl and it doesn't explode. Yzerman didn't make ermjust one bad decision but a whole series of them which has resulted in the Wings' present mediocrity. There just is no reason to believe that he's going to suddenly get wise and turn things around.

While I agree many of the moves has left us treading water - the unfortunate reality is that some were a necessary evil due to our lack of talented prospects (and that’s changing for the better).

As another poster mentioned - we lack high end star talent on this roster so it’s a long road ahead.

 

[FMichael]

7,875,000 sorry like what are we doing here. Its too bad you had to focus on the one negative thing in the post when the rest was positive. Do you have any opinions on the rest of the content you quoted?

Id take Bennett on my team any day over Debrincat and its not remotely close. Debrincat is a perimeter scorer who doesnt drive the play. Bennett doesnt play first PP and is an elite player in every facet, almost a unicorn in todays NHL in his ability to raise his game come playoff time. He is a modern day Claude Lemieux. His ability to get to the middle of the ice and score dirty goals is not a common thing and thats what works when the games matter most. He is terrible to play against too.

I dont want to build my team around undersized players that arent fast and dont create offense at big ticket numbers.

You may dissagree but thats not how winning teams are built with players like DBC.

DCat was available and wanting to come home to Detroit…We needed a scoring winger…Should Yzerman not have acquired him?

People need to keep 1 simple fact in mind…Just because a player is available via trade, or UFA doesn’t mean they want to play for this franchise…It’s not the 90s anymore

 

[landy]

Pretty wild we dont talk about what Yzerman gave up (2 Cups) to go to Detroit.

 

[cvaicunas]

7,875,000 sorry like what are we doing here. Its too bad you had to focus on the one negative thing in the post when the rest was positive. Do you have any opinions on the rest of the content you quoted?

Id take Bennett on my team any day over Debrincat and its not remotely close. Debrincat is a perimeter scorer who doesnt drive the play. Bennett doesnt play first PP and is an elite player in every facet, almost a unicorn in todays NHL in his ability to raise his game come playoff time. He is a modern day Claude Lemieux. His ability to get to the middle of the ice and score dirty goals is not a common thing and thats what works when the games matter most. He is terrible to play against too.

I dont want to build my team around undersized players that arent fast and dont create offense at big ticket numbers.

You may dissagree but thats not how winning teams are built with players like DBC.

Again I don't watch him play, I'm just looking at stats. But if he is playing 2C, with his numbers, I don't see how you can say he is elite in every facet. It's certainly not his goal production. I'm not saying Debrincat is an elite goal scorer, but he is very good. Yes, you can argue Bennet's style of play is unique, and of a winning build come the playoffs. But I don't see how you can call a 40-50pt player a line driver. Maybe an elite piano puller type? Dcat plays hard and competes. If he didn't, his size would have precluded him from having the career he has had so far. I'm not shitting on your opinion, I just have a different one. And obviously that opinion stems from the idea that I don't think a player like Bennet, at the proposed cap hit, helps the Wings.

 

[saska sault]

7,875,000 sorry like what are we doing here. Its too bad you had to focus on the one negative thing in the post when the rest was positive. Do you have any opinions on the rest of the content you quoted?

Id take Bennett on my team any day over Debrincat and its not remotely close. Debrincat is a perimeter scorer who doesnt drive the play. Bennett doesnt play first PP and is an elite player in every facet, almost a unicorn in todays NHL in his ability to raise his game come playoff time. He is a modern day Claude Lemieux. His ability to get to the middle of the ice and score dirty goals is not a common thing and thats what works when the games matter most. He is terrible to play against too.

I dont want to build my team around undersized players that arent fast and dont create offense at big ticket numbers.

You may dissagree but thats not how winning teams are built with players like DBC.

Id love Bennett on the Wings, most Wings fans would. Debrincat is not really a perimeter player though. He is one of the few Wings who goes to the dirty areas and isn't afraid to play in traffic. He has been great all season long and solid on both ends of the ice.

 

[bert]

Id love Bennett on the Wings, most Wings fans would. Debrincat is not really a perimeter player though. He is one of the few Wings who goes to the dirty areas and isn't afraid to play in traffic. He has been great all season long and solid on both ends of the ice.

I mean he is I am a season ticket holder in Ottawa I was already familiar with the player and then watched him live 30 times. He is good at it but you arent winning much with 10% of the cap tied up in him. Id pay him 5.5 or max 6 personally. Maybe if you are Florida and you have big heavy guys down the middle you can but thats a very unique situation. He has had a good year for sure but if he is one of your best players you are typically sitting on the outside looking in and its the best season he has had in a long time.

DCat was available and wanting to come home to Detroit…We needed a scoring winger…Should Yzerman not have acquired him?

People need to keep 1 simple fact in mind…Just because a player is available via trade, or UFA doesn’t mean they want to play for this franchise…It’s not the 90s anymore

The value to acquire him is good its just not the blue print of how I would allocate money in a cap world. With the cap going up its likely going to be ok but at the time I wanted nothing to do with Ottawa extending him at that money. That being said they took Ottawa to the cleaners from a value perspective on that trade. Thank goodness as sens fans dorion is gone.

 

[cvaicunas]

Are you sure Washington is the example you want to use? They are 1st in the NHL right now with over 100 points.

Washington did a great job retooling. Smart pro scouting. Just because they're moves worked out, I'm not sure you can superimpose that kind of mentality on the Wings front office and be happy with the results. I do still believe in the argument that this rebuild should be done slowly and methodically. Would the Wings have benefited from Roy, Chychrun, Strome... OF COURSE. Just does that accomplish what Yzerman stated he wants to accomplish, a long term winner. Argue to death his moves to date, some not good at all. I still prefer a single mindset over short term upheaval, a la Buffalo.

 

[saska sault]

I mean he is I am a season ticket holder in Ottawa I was already familiar with the player and then watched him live 30 times. He is good at it but you arent winning much with 10% of the cap tied up in him. Id pay him 5.5 or max 6 personally. Maybe if you are Florida and you have big heavy guys down the middle you can but thats a very unique situation. He has had a good year for sure but if he is one of your best players you are typically sitting on the outside looking in and its the best season he has had in a long time.


The value to acquire him is good its just not the blue print of how I would allocate money in a cap world. With the cap going up its likely going to be ok but at the time I wanted nothing to do with Ottawa extending him at that money. That being said they took Ottawa to the cleaners from a value perspective on that trade. Thank goodness as sens fans dorion is gone.

One season in a city he didn't want to be in, I don't doubt he was a perimeter player during his tenure there. He was at times last season in Detroit, but that has not been the case the back end of last season and all of this season. I am not a season ticket holder but I would estimate I watch 90% of the Wings hockey. Most Wing fans would be happy to extend him for his current price tag especially with a rising cap... he is far from the issue in Detroit. He plays with more grit than the guys with size that wear the winged wheel.

 

[Czechboy]

Washington did a great job retooling. Smart pro scouting. Just because they're moves worked out, I'm not sure you can superimpose that kind of mentality on the Wings front office and be happy with the results. I do still believe in the argument that this rebuild should be done slowly and methodically. Would the Wings have benefited from Roy, Chychrun, Strome... OF COURSE. Just does that accomplish what Yzerman stated he wants to accomplish, a long term winner. Argue to death his moves to date, some not good at all. I still prefer a single mindset over short term upheaval, a la Buffalo.

They did.. my point was that picking a team that got their ass kicked in round 1 and may win the President's Trophy the next season is a bad example. Lots of teams scraped into playoffs, got smoked and then went back to mediocrity. I'd just pick a better example.lol

 

[cvaicunas]

They did.. my point was that picking a team that got their ass kicked in round 1 and may win the President's Trophy the next season is a bad example. Lots of teams scraped into playoffs, got smoked and then went back to mediocrity. I'd just pick a better example.lol

No I think you picked a great example. But the mindset of management had to be far different. I don't see the Wings management possessing that mindset yet, and I don't disagree with it. Win now moves, verse win later moves. And again, the pro scouting for the Wings has proven subpar. But we don't know who would have signed here. The tinkering trades Yzerman had made have slowed, it's time to allow the prospects to move in. I imagine those same trades willl reappear once evaluations are done

 

[nbwingsfan]

Are you sure Washington is the example you want to use? They are 1st in the NHL right now with over 100 points.

Yes, when the guy is responding with “1st round upsets happen all the time”. There was zero way we were going to beat the Rangers. Lucky to even win a game

The Caps team from last season to this season is an entirely different roster.

Sure if we had a generational goal scorer who we were doing all we could to contend while he’s still here that example may work, but alas we do not

 

[Mr Nogatco]

To quote for the 4th time….

Long term, does finishing 16th place vs finishing 18th place do a single thing to help the team become a contender besides getting (dominated) in playoff experience?

Would the Wings be a better team today or next year if they’re had a single extra point last season?

Suppose next season is the Wings’ ‘great leap forward’: they make all the right moves this offseason, their prospects improve as hoped, and they finish with 100-105 points.

If they hadn’t absolutely collapsed around game 60 each of the last 3 years, they could be going into the playoffs with 2-3 years/rounds of postseason experience. Instead, it would be their first time playing meaningful hockey as a team and I think expectations would be necessarily tempered as a result.

I would much rather my team learn some of the harsh lessons of playoff hockey as they are ascending to relevance rather than waiting until the team is talented enough to do some real damage.. and then likely having to wait even longer to make a run because the postseason is completely foreign to them.

Not saying Yzerman needs to be fired or anything.. just pointing out an opportunity was lost here, and yes it does matter long term.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Listen pal, idk if you have ever played sports in your life. But, if you toss players/kids into the deep water without them being somewhat ready for it, first of all they going to get crushed, secondly their going to take a big mental beating. It teaches them absolutely nothing if they get pummelled x 4. More often than not its bad for their mentality. And I'm not saying ready to be contender, I'm saying being in a state ready to compete at a decent level. They already know they can lose with 3-6 goals vs. the Colorado's, Washington's, etc. It can be more damaging than making any sort of positive out of it.

It doesn't matter. Its different times now, different circumstances. Salary cap era, building through draft mostly. Etc.

You don't have to go through the same amount of years. Yes it can happen. And you can win quicker, or you might never win at all. But, its more of a hit long term mentally if you playing games you don't have any chance of winning.

It’s invaluable experience for the young guys, even if you disagree.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

It’s invaluable experience for the young guys, even if you disagree.

But that "playoffs are bad for young players" argument is some next-level nonsense!

 

[RedHawkDown]

7,875,000 sorry like what are we doing here. Its too bad you had to focus on the one negative thing in the post when the rest was positive. Do you have any opinions on the rest of the content you quoted?

Id take Bennett on my team any day over Debrincat and its not remotely close. Debrincat is a perimeter scorer who doesnt drive the play. Bennett doesnt play first PP and is an elite player in every facet, almost a unicorn in todays NHL in his ability to raise his game come playoff time. He is a modern day Claude Lemieux. His ability to get to the middle of the ice and score dirty goals is not a common thing and thats what works when the games matter most. He is terrible to play against too.

I dont want to build my team around undersized players that arent fast and dont create offense at big ticket numbers.

You may dissagree but thats not how winning teams are built with players like DBC.

Just say you never watch the team. DBC 100% drives play and is by far the best player on his line, and is probably our second-best forward, better than Larkin (this season at least). He also works very hard defensively and is rarely out of position.

It's really funny how much people just assume based on a player's height. He's 5'8" so of course he's a one-dimensional winger who plays the perimeter.

If Alex DeBrincat was 6'1" and 200lbs and played the exact same way, he would be seen as a reliable 2-way 200ft 60-70pt 35 goal scorer and that's easily worth 8M. His size does not impair him and he doesn't get pushed around.

Not an Yzerman defender. Dude has been a bad GM. But the DeBrincat trade was exceptional.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Suppose next season is the Wings’ ‘great leap forward’: they make all the right moves this offseason, their prospects improve as hoped, and they finish with 100-105 points.

If they hadn’t absolutely collapsed around game 60 each of the last 3 years, they could be going into the playoffs with 2-3 years/rounds of postseason experience. Instead, it would be their first time playing meaningful hockey as a team and I think expectations would be necessarily tempered as a result.

I would much rather my team learn some of the harsh lessons of playoff hockey as they are ascending to relevance rather than waiting until the team is talented enough to do some real damage.. and then likely having to wait even longer to make a run because the postseason is completely foreign to them.

Not saying Yzerman needs to be fired or anything.. just pointing out an opportunity was lost here, and yes it does matter long term.

One of the last 3 years they were still sellers. But yes the last two years have been brutal collapses, especially last season, and Yzerman deserves a TON of blame for that.

They’re not winning the Cup next season anyways. This idea that you need the playoff experience of getting shredded in the first round is so overblown around here. Never mind that a large portion of the team already has playoff experience.

 

[nbwingsfan]

7,875,000 sorry like what are we doing here. Its too bad you had to focus on the one negative thing in the post when the rest was positive. Do you have any opinions on the rest of the content you quoted?

Id take Bennett on my team any day over Debrincat and its not remotely close. Debrincat is a perimeter scorer who doesnt drive the play. Bennett doesnt play first PP and is an elite player in every facet, almost a unicorn in todays NHL in his ability to raise his game come playoff time. He is a modern day Claude Lemieux. His ability to get to the middle of the ice and score dirty goals is not a common thing and thats what works when the games matter most. He is terrible to play against too.

I dont want to build my team around undersized players that arent fast and dont create offense at big ticket numbers.

You may dissagree but thats not how winning teams are built with players like DBC.

Strange that a small, undersized winger who doesn’t produce at an elite level won the Conn Smythe just 2 seasons ago then isn’t it…. (Playing against Bennett to boot)

 

[nbwingsfan]

They did.. my point was that picking a team that got their ass kicked in round 1 and may win the President's Trophy the next season is a bad example. Lots of teams scraped into playoffs, got smoked and then went back to mediocrity. I'd just pick a better example.lol

May win the presidents trophy after completely revamping their team acquiring a #1G/#1D/#4D/suddenly very good #2C in Dubois ***

 

[WarriorofTime]

DeBrincat is 27 and has two years after this one. He’s in his prime. Good example of Yzerman not knowing what his timeline is. Is he a placeholder or a guy that was supposed to help the wings take an important step?

 

[Fatass]

Strange that a small, undersized winger who doesn’t produce at an elite level won the Conn Smythe just 2 seasons ago then isn’t it…. (Playing against Bennett to boot)

I like “The Cat”. He actually plays the right way, even though he’s on the smaller side. Imo he’s one of Yzerman’s positive adds.
The Wing’s problem isn’t him.

 

[NyQuil]

DeBrincat is 27 and has two years after this one. He’s in his prime. Good example of Yzerman not knowing what his timeline is. Is he a placeholder or a guy that was supposed to help the wings take an important step?

He’s a top six forward who fell out of the sky because it’s where he wanted to play.

 

[WarriorofTime]

He’s a top six forward who fell out of the sky because it’s where he wanted to play.

He wasn’t UFA. They traded the Boston pick they got for Tyler Bertuzzi

 

[Relapsing]

The only things this years Wings team are good at is drawing phantom calls and their PP%.

If the NHL actually had quality refs, they'd be in the basement.

 

[nbwingsfan]

DeBrincat is 27 and has two years after this one. He’s in his prime. Good example of Yzerman not knowing what his timeline is. Is he a placeholder or a guy that was supposed to help the wings take an important step?

He did help us get ahead in the standings.

They got a good player for great value.

If they really wanted to, they can flip him for a lot more than they traded to acquire him.

Also is 27 some ancient being ?

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

They're just a soft, soft team.

Seider getting shoved off the puck by Batherson. Debrincat not going in the corner and gave up on a puck because he was going to get hit. Larkin and Raymond diving all over the place and looking back at the ref for a call. Raymond got manhandled by Tkachuk and immediately starts diving after, while Stutzle goes roof daddy the other way.

Two years ago, the Sens played the Wings twice in two days, towards the end of the season. The Wings were fighting for a playoff spot. The Sens blew them out in two straight games, and just physically dominated them. Like, beat them up, outmuscled them, just physically dominant. Tkachuk offers to fight anyone on the bench, and you could literally see every player putting their head down, turning away, looking like a teenager checking the Weather app when a girl walks in the room. And then Tkachuk scores by outmuscling the Wings defensemen, and flexes his arms as a celebration in front of them.

And guess what, nothing has changed. Watson just got cranked up in a hit by Kleven, down 3-0, and no reaction. Oh, Watson slashed him, that was it.