Detroit Redwings Downfall

[The Last Red]

Detroit’s biggest problem going forward is not having at least one superstar forward on the team or in the pipeline - Raymond is a great player but not a superstar. Having one or two doesn’t guarantee you a Cup (see Oilers) but it’s near impossible to win one without that, save for the 2018-19 Blues.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Bro lol have you even read a single post in this thread.

I think I’ve said to now 4 times it would be better to have made the postseason. But the difference LONG TERM between finishing 16th place and finishing 17th-18th place is essentially meaningless

The difference is the playoff drought is 1 season. There is less pressure on the kids to end a drought. It signals to the org the team might be ready to take the next step and Steve Y might actually bring in a piece that helps the team.

And most importantly it gives valuable playoff experience to a roster without much of it

 

[Mr Nogatco]

So you think if the Wings had 1 extra OTp pt last season that they would be a much better team and in the playoffs right now?

No, but I think it’s a mistake be dismissive of the value of making the playoffs, even if that means a young team ends up getting worked in the first round

 

[Dotter]

Why not trade picks and prospects for players that can actually help the team now, not five years from now when the other guys drafted years ago are either gone or void of any playoff experience?

The wings are gonna become the sabres stuck in a perpetual rebuild, holding on to youth when the only way out of suckness is to actually surround a young core with players already established and broken out.

Trading Hronek was dumb since the guy you drafted with the pick likely never becomes as good and even if he does thats still 3+ years from now.
Wings fans make excuses for Stevie and his shitty UFA signings, calling them stop gaps. Why not sign or trade for actual good players that can help now and in the future.

Any team that had the tentpole pieces and wings fans say they do, it's at that point you proceed to the next step which isn't relying on the draft, it's uses accumulated picks and prospects to aquire players just entering their prime, or savvy vets.

1/ The Wings aren’t in a “perpetual rebuild.” They’re in a strategic one.
There’s a difference between flailing with no plan (hi Sabres), and building methodically under a GM who literally constructed a dynasty in Tampa.

2/ “Trade picks and prospects for players who help NOW!”
Cool, but who’s our core right now? The Wings are fighting for a wildcard. You don’t go all-in unless the window is open — otherwise you waste assets and get stuck in the middle forever (see: 2010s Flyers/Sharks).

3/ “The Hronek trade was dumb”
Was it? He had a career year, and Yzerman flipped him for a 1st & 2nd. That’s textbook asset management.
He was about to get paid, and his defense was mid at best. Vancouver’s already seeing the inconsistency.

4/ “But what if the guy we draft never becomes as good?”
That’s the gamble. But you need lottery tickets to build a real contender. You don’t win Cups with just middle-pairing defensemen and grit grinders. You win with elite, homegrown talent on ELCs.

5/ “Yzerman makes shitty UFA signings”
No. He makes short-term, cap-friendly signings to bridge the gap and insulate the youth. Not every deal is about getting a 30-goal scorer. Some are about culture, depth, and locker room stability.

6/ “They’re becoming the Sabres”
Sabres rushed Eichel, Reinhart, Dahlin into a mess of a franchise with no stability or support.
Detroit is not doing that. They’re letting guys develop properly (Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Danielson, ASP, etc.).

7/ “You need to move picks to get guys in their prime!”
We did. DeBrincat ring a bell?
Yzerman’s not afraid to make big moves. He just knows the timing matters. You don’t go all-in before the core matures — you go in when it’s ready.

8/ Patience isn’t weakness. It’s part of the blueprint.
Look at the Wings pipeline. Look at the trajectory. Then look at teams who didn’t do it right.
The pain now leads to sustained success later.

9/ When this team is ready to go, Yzerman will make the big swing. But he’s not lighting the future on fire for a wildcard push. That’s how you end up in rebuild 2.0 five years later.

10/ The Red Wings aren’t stuck.
They’re simmering.
And when the time is right, they’re gonna boil over.

 

[thebestnic]

I kind of hope Dotter is using genai and is not actually typing these...

 

[Fearnot]

View attachment 1000035

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

I'm still going with Yzerman getting the last laugh here.

 

[crab]

I'm still going with Yzerman getting the last laugh here.

Ya you are probably right…. In 2035 when they finish the rebuild

 

[Ulysses31]

Nah. By next year he’ll have like 6-7 drafted players on the team. He has a TON of cap space to make a meaningful move to help the team now and long term.

There’s no excuse (minus critical injuries) that they shouldn’t be in next season

we will see. agree to disagree but hopefully we never find out and DRW jump to playoffs next year.

 

[SirKillalot]

There is less pressure on the kids to end a drought.

If they can't handle the pressure to end a drought, they can't handle the pressure to win a cup. So I don't mind the pressure. Issue is people who know nothing about their plan is saying there is massive pressure, when its not. Some people just want to them to get into the playoffs because then they can say oh they got into the playoffs without having any other reasoning for it.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

I kind of hope Dotter is using genai and is not actually typing these...

I’m almost convinced that he must be Steve’s daughter or a Red Wings marketing employee/paid influencer.

The lengths he goes to provide excuses and pure hopium is off the charts.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

If they can't handle the pressure to end a drought, they can't handle the pressure to win a cup. So I don't mind the pressure. Issue is people who know nothing about their plan is saying there is massive pressure, when its not. Some people just want to them to get into the playoffs because then they can say oh they got into the playoffs without having reasoning.

The reasoning has already been explained ad nauseum. It would give Detroit’s young foundational players valuable experience and help teach them the realities of the war that playoff hockey is and how it’s a completely new animal as opposed to games 1-82.

Do you know how many times Yzerman had to get smacked in the mouth in the playoffs in his playing career before he became a winner? You know that 1997 wasn’t his first year playing beyond the regular season, right?

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

Ya you are probably right…. In 2035 when they finish the rebuild

Next year a Hurricanes/Kings type season. A little bit unsexier than the other teams with the D man combo as the anchor, no higher than 4th or 5th in the conference or a team people are afraid of yet. But good enough.

 

[SirKillalot]

The reasoning has already been explained ad nauseum. It would give Detroit’s young foundational players valuable experience and help teach them the realities of the war that playoff hockey is and how it’s a completely new animal as opposed to games 1-82.

Listen pal, idk if you have ever played sports in your life. But, if you toss players/kids into the deep water without them being somewhat ready for it, first of all they going to get crushed, secondly their going to take a big mental beating. It teaches them absolutely nothing if they get pummelled x 4. More often than not its bad for their mentality. And I'm not saying ready to be contender, I'm saying being in a state ready to compete at a decent level. They already know they can lose with 3-6 goals vs. the Colorado's, Washington's, etc. It can be more damaging than making any sort of positive out of it.

Do you know how many times Yzerman had to get smacked in the mouth in the playoffs in his playing career before he became a winner? You know that 1997 wasn’t his first year playing beyond the regular season, right?

It doesn't matter. Its different times now, different circumstances. Salary cap era, building through draft mostly. Etc.

You don't have to go through the same amount of years. Yes it can happen. And you can win quicker, or you might never win at all. But, its more of a hit long term mentally if you playing games you don't have any chance of winning.

 

[Dotter]

I’m almost convinced that he must be Steve’s daughter or a Red Wings marketing employee/paid influencer.

The lengths he goes to provide excuses and pure hopium is off the charts.

Says the guy who lives in this thread. You post here about 40 times per day.

 

[Czechboy]

Where have I even once said it’s “better”? Did you or did you not see the Washington (the team who took our spot) vs Rangers series?

Are you sure Washington is the example you want to use? They are 1st in the NHL right now with over 100 points.

 

[Czechboy]

Says the guy who lives in this thread. You post here about 40 times per day.

I just want to say. You have been consistent and passionate about this all season. You haven't backed down once and you reply to every single criticism and address it. Kudos for that.

 

[keglu]

Next year a Hurricanes/Kings type season. A little bit unsexier than the other teams with the D man combo as the anchor, no higher than 4th or 5th in the conference or a team people are afraid of yet. But good enough.

Problem is that current TOP 3 from Atlantic should still be very strong in next few years. Wildcarst spot is more realistic but there are a few improving teams in East.

 

[Dotter]

I just want to say. You have been consistent and passionate about this all season. You haven't backed down once and you reply to every single criticism and address it. Kudos for that.

I don't post 40 time a day. I might visit this thread a few times a week.

I think Yzerman has done a fine job. I do think he made some moves that didn't help... but also didn't hurt the future of the team. And that matters.

Even playing revisionist history, I don't see anything that he could have done to get this team hovering around 100 points the past two seasons without mortgaging the future.... unless he made impulsive knee jerk trades that would hurt the future.

I look at what he's doing and think he's doing a great job. His drafting is proving to be spot on. He has plenty of cap. No long term bad contract. He has built up a respectable prospect pool.

When the time is right, I expect him to make aggressive trades and impactful FA signings.

I don't like the Tarasenko signing, but at the the time I thought he was going to come in and make an impact like Patty Kane has done. That was a fail, but not anything that hurts the future.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

Even playing revisionist history, I don't see anything that he could have done to get this team hovering around 100 points the past two seasons without mortgaging the future.... unless he made impulsive knee jerk trades that would hurt the future.

Thats been the entire argument from everybody here.

"This is what I would have done instead" easy to say that with hindsight.

The same people criticizing every move Steve has made these past two seasons probably applauded the genius Barry Trotz for all the aggressive signings last off-season.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

No, but I think it’s a mistake be dismissive of the value of making the playoffs, even if that means a young team ends up getting worked in the first round

People who don't see the worth in a young team making the playoffs even if they get 'stomped' fundamentally don't understand the sport or the psychology that surrounds it.

You have to learn the nature of something before you can have any hope to conquer it.

Young players all have to learn about the speed and intensity of the playoffs.

This idea that waiting another 3 years won't make a difference is just tragic cope from Yzerman Stans.

I'm not even saying Yzerman is terrible, but he has sure shown he ain't no savior.

 

[Run the Jewels]

A few general comments, both the good and the bad.

The bad: The DRW at the end of the Holland era was a gigantic tire fire. The only quality player to build around when Yzerman came back was Dylan Larkin. The end. The prospect pool was vaporware. Michael Rasmussen is still on the team from that era, but he's basically just a warm body. So this was a full on rebuild.

The bad: North American scouting. Anyone who disagrees with me, please name the most recent high-quality draft pick out of Canada, this single biggest talent pool in the world. By high quality, let's say consistent All Star, PPG forward, top 10 Norris vote getter on defense, consistent top 10 in SV% for goalie. It's dismal. This is an area where I am still skeptical that Yzerman has made the necessary changes.

The bad: Yzerman deserves criticism for being too slow to move on from Derek Lalonde this season. It seemed pretty obvious at the start of the season that Laldonde had run his race as the DRW head coach, but Yzerman kept him until the end of December. In retrospect that is almost certainly going to cost the team a playoff spot this season.

The good: Unlike Holland, Yzerman has leaned heavily on his best amateur scout. Where Holland would give his best draft picks to his awful NA scouts and draft Filip Zadina over Quinn Hughes, Yzerman has given nearly all of his 1st round picks to his European scouts. You can see the impact of this approach in the rebuild as Detroit's best players have come from Europe: Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, ASP, Kasper, Brandsegg-Nygård, etc.

The good: Detroit has a solid core they are building around through the draft and one smart trade to acquire Alex DeBrincat. You can see a core of 4-5 scoring line forwards and 3 top-4 d-men who are mostly firmly in their prime (Larkin & DeBrincat) or will be entering their prime over the next 5 or so years (Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, etc).

The good: Yzerman has finally moved on from first-time head coaches (Blashill whom he inherited and Derek Lalonde whom he hired) and has finally gone with a proven coach who isn't a retread. McLellan has a good mix of coaching experience and success, without being well past his time as an NHL caliber coach. He seems like a good fit for where this franchise is right now.

The only unknowns that really gives me any sort of pause are twofold:

1. Will he fix his North American scouting?
2. How will Nate Danielson, Sebastian Cossa, and Trey Augustine develop?

So overall Yzerman is going quite well considering the situation he was brought in to fix. He hasn't been perfect, but I'm still reasonably optimistic he'll accomplish his goal of giving the DRW a nice long window where they can be competitive. He can't really guarantee much beyond that.

 

[bleedgreen]

The plan has always seemed obvious and it still seems on track. There’s going to be setbacks and every move isn’t going to be perfect but overall it’s pretty easy to track it. Shame they didn’t fire the coach a bit earlier but that’s not something you fire Yzerman for. It’s a good lesson moving forward I’m sure.

All the mid ufa’s are short term and are band aids until the kids are ready. Let the kids develop and grow into roles.

 

[Run the Jewels]

The plan has always seemed obvious and it still seems on track. There’s going to be setbacks and every move isn’t going to be perfect but overall it’s pretty easy to track it. Shame they didn’t fire the coach a bit earlier but that’s not something you fire Yzerman for. It’s a good lesson moving forward I’m sure.

All the mid ufa’s are short term and are band aids until the kids are ready. Let the kids develop and grow into roles.

Yes, the UFA signings have largely been garbage, but there are no cap issues at this point. It does further highlight how bad his NA scouting has been and my one real concern is that - due to his long-time ties to the organization - he may not be willing to clean house like he should.

 

[bert]

Not sure I agree with the Dcat opinion. Not to mention it's not 8 mil. The guy is a 30-40 goal scorer. People are talking about Bennet getting 8-9 mil this coming FA and he's a 40-45 pt player. What do you think he is worth?

7,875,000 sorry like what are we doing here. Its too bad you had to focus on the one negative thing in the post when the rest was positive. Do you have any opinions on the rest of the content you quoted?

Id take Bennett on my team any day over Debrincat and its not remotely close. Debrincat is a perimeter scorer who doesnt drive the play. Bennett doesnt play first PP and is an elite player in every facet, almost a unicorn in todays NHL in his ability to raise his game come playoff time. He is a modern day Claude Lemieux. His ability to get to the middle of the ice and score dirty goals is not a common thing and thats what works when the games matter most. He is terrible to play against too.

I dont want to build my team around undersized players that arent fast and dont create offense at big ticket numbers.

You may dissagree but thats not how winning teams are built with players like DBC.