Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Mr Nogatco]

It’s a very simple question my guy…

If the wings become contenders in 3 years, will you still think back to this year and say “he’s a failure!!!”

Contenders for what? A wild card?

 

[SirKillalot]

But if they can't get on a top team, the better FAs are still saying "No!" to the Yzermess.

Sure whatever rock's your boat.

Also every single Wingsbfan does Hronek for ASP+ . Its not extremely unlikely he becomes better, and Hronek wasn’t good here

Well I didn't want them to trade Hronek, but also saw reasons to why they did as he for sure had warts in his game and didn't fit the timeline 100% but also wasn't the type of d-man Yzerman wanted to build a long term team on.

Getting mudstomped in the first round is not beneficial for young players.

Bingo, finally someone gets it.

It's a major indictment on Yzerman that his competition in the division hopes that he never leaves.

Like the ownership go read on HFBoards and thing, wow this Hockeyfan2390 must be on to something here.

It is rare to make the cup finals in a core group’s first postseason appearance so those tend to be the building blocks.

No one has said they need to make it to the cup finals in their first post season appearance.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I think you’re getting a bit bogged down in semantics. Of course being competitive in a playoff series would be a better result than getting swept in round 1. You’re focusing pretty heavily on the “swept in round 1” hypothetical. Yes “make the playoffs” can be a bit of a shorthand in a binary “pass/fail” setting which doesn’t 100% reflect reality and nobody is throwing parades from teams that get stomped out of the first round in multiple years. Especially if they quickly regress back to bad. The bigger picture is becoming a “playoff team” is a meaningful step where teams transform their rebuilds into competitive windows. It is rare to make the cup finals in a core group’s first postseason appearance so those tend to be the building blocks.


Another way to ask, what is meaningfully better for the wings future rebuild about narrowly missing the playoffs and picking 10th-16th or whatever than narrowly making the playoffs. Especially when people discuss “playing competitive hockey” and what not. In such a case, isn’t there at least the feeling of accomplishment and signal around the league that would come from clearing that (somewhat arbitrary) “in the playoffs” threshold than missing it while still missing out on the top draft selections?

Yes of course it’s much better to make the playoffs than barely miss.

Do I think there’s any meaningful difference between narrowly missing the playoffs and making the playoffs just to lose in RD 1 when they’re not contenders right now and still have a ton of key pieces coming along with room to (hopefully) finally acquire the star talent needed. Definitely not

 

[nbwingsfan]

What have the Wings ever shown to suggest they can sniff being a contender? Closer to being the next Buffalo IMO

Who knows. A ton can happen in 3 years.

The point is that narrowly missing the playoffs vs making the post season makes very little difference in the grand sceme of things.

If the Wings had a single extra point, im talking 1 OT goal away during the entire last season then they would have made the postseason (to then get stomped like Washington did).

Would that have somehow made us better this season? Would that suddenly make Justin Holl and Gus any better of players? No.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Yes of course it’s much better to make the playoffs than barely miss.

Do I think there’s any meaningful difference between narrowly missing the playoffs and making the playoffs just to lose in RD 1 when they’re not contenders right now and still have a ton of key pieces coming along with room to (hopefully) finally acquire the star talent needed. Definitely not

Because it's completely unheard of for lower seeded teams to win a round.

It's better to miss the playoffs is one of my favorite HF memes.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Would that have somehow made us better this season? Would that suddenly make Justin Holl and Gus any better of players? No.

Well we know that Detroit DIDN'T make the playoffs and the team DID get worse and Holl and Gus aren't better players.


So clearly missing the playoffs didn't do anything to help.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Who knows. A ton can happen in 3 years.

The point is that narrowly missing the playoffs vs making the post season makes very little difference in the grand sceme of things.

If the Wings had a single extra point, im talking 1 OT goal away during the entire last season then they would have made the postseason (to then get stomped like Washington did).

Would that have somehow made us better this season? Would that suddenly make Justin Holl and Gus any better of players? No.

Nah this is some major copium. Making the playoffs matters and I don't believe for one second you wouldn't rather watch them play an extra 4 games if that is all they got then continue the playoff drought.

Going to be 9 years this year. I am a Leafs fan who had the same streak.. I know what it feels like you are craving playoffs but coping because you don't trust your rebuild

 

[Frobbo]

But that is the point, you are not serious or trying to have a serious discussion. What you perceive as "valuable postseason experience" isn't what I perceive it as. Problem is you think its valuable to get thrashed and swept while I don't see the same value there as they get the similar input vs. top teams in the regular season.

This is why for me and many others, getting into the playoffs just to get in, isn't essential. Is it a bonus yes, but is it a live or die for moment in terms of player development, no.

I think the point he is trying to make is most Cup winners have to climb a ladder of success...in the playoffs. Teams don't win it in their first try in several years. Even out of the blue winners like StL (parden the pun) had a lot of playoff experience. Getting waxed in the first round would still give the team a gauge on what it takes.

There seems to be a progression from making the playoffs, to winning some rounds to cup finals to a cup. It doesn't seem likely for a team to go from missing the playoffs routinely to being a true Cup CONTENDER in the space of a year or two. It is somewhat like doing an additional rebuild in a way as the players figure out what it takes.

 

[FMichael]

 

[WarriorofTime]

Who knows. A ton can happen in 3 years.

The point is that narrowly missing the playoffs vs making the post season makes very little difference in the grand sceme of things.

If the Wings had a single extra point, im talking 1 OT goal away during the entire last season then they would have made the postseason (to then get stomped like Washington did).

Would that have somehow made us better this season? Would that suddenly make Justin Holl and Gus any better of players? No.

I’m struggling at the broader point here. That the Wings “basically” already made the playoffs? Did the Oilers “basically” already win the Cup? This is just full incrementalism to the extreme. They missed the playoffs in a pretty easy year to make it. It’s not a great reflection.

 

[SirKillalot]

I think the point he is trying to make is most Cup winners have to climb a ladder of success...in the playoffs. Teams don't win it in their first try in several years. Even out of the blue winners like StL (parden the pun) had a lot of playoff experience. Getting waxed in the first round would still give the team a gauge on what it takes.

No one disagree that usually it takes some x amounts of attempts.
Just disagree with the notion that you have to get thumped to learn building playoff experience.

There seems to be a progression from making the playoffs, to winning some rounds to cup finals to a cup. It doesn't seem likely for a team to go from missing the playoffs routinely to being a true Cup CONTENDER in the space of a year or two. It is somewhat like doing an additional rebuild in a way as the players figure out what it takes.

Yes and no one has said otherwise. But its a difference between being somewhat competitive taking it to game 6 or 7 or getting to 2nd round and being competitive there too, than this perceived opinion that you HAVE to get to the playoffs to get trashed because its "super valuable" experience.

 

[Frobbo]

No one disagree that usually it takes some x amounts of attempts.
Just disagree with the notion that you have to get thumped to learn building playoff experience.

Yes and no one has said otherwise. But its a difference between being somewhat competitive taking it to game 6 or 7 or getting to 2nd round and being competitive there too, than this perceived opinion that you HAVE to get to the playoffs to get trashed because its "super valuable" experience.

So I guess you are acknowledging the current team would get crushed where nothing valuable would be gleaned? Uh, OK. Not sure the team would agree with you.

 

[Ulysses31]

I don’t think Yzerman has made a single good move since the 2024 deadline. I’ve actually hated pretty much everything he’s done outside of the Seider/Raymond extensions.

But I don’t buy this theory of it was somehow a critical and necessary thing to make the post season by year 6 just to get demolished in the 1st round.

If he improves next season and they’re competitive in the 1st round or even better yet wins a round, what happened this season is entirely irrelevant to the long term.

If they suck again next season then yeah he deserves a kick to the curb

if they suck again next year it surely would b dissappointing. but Imo he should and will get at least 2 more seasons after this 1 BC the team has been drafting and delevoping so well.

 

[Fearnot]

View attachment 1000001

 

[Mr Nogatco]

Who knows. A ton can happen in 3 years.

The point is that narrowly missing the playoffs vs making the post season makes very little difference in the grand sceme of things.

Very little difference in terms of draft position, yes.

I think most would argue there is a significant benefit to making the playoffs in terms of team culture, morale, internal expectations, experience, etc.

 

[FMichael]

View attachment 1000014

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Woah. Insert this much copium into the reactor at Chernobyl and it doesn't explode. Yzerman didn't make just one bad decision but a whole series of them which has resulted in the Wings' present mediocrity. There just is no reason to believe that he's going to suddenly get wise and turn things around.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Woah. Insert this much copium into the reactor at Chernobyl and it doesn't explode. Yzerman didn't make just one bad decision but a whole series of them which has resulted in the Wings' present mediocrity. There just is no reason to believe that he's going to suddenly get wise and turn things around.

With the cap exploding and his previous UFA signings, I would be very worried as a Wings fan. How many more Holl's is he going to bring in out of desperation of making the playoffs?

 

[VivaLasVegas]

With the cap exploding and his previous UFA signings, I would be very worried as a Wings fan. How many more Holl's is he going to bring in out of desperation of making the playoffs?

The crazy thing is that I could see Yzerman (and Ron Francis for that matter) not making any significant deals but simply doubling-down on their present failure.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Because it's completely unheard of for lower seeded teams to win a round.

It's better to miss the playoffs is one of my favorite HF memes.

Where have I even once said it’s “better”? Did you or did you not see the Washington (the team who took our spot) vs Rangers series?

 

[nbwingsfan]

Well we know that Detroit DIDN'T make the playoffs and the team DID get worse and Holl and Gus aren't better players.


So clearly missing the playoffs didn't do anything to help.

Weird way to completely avoid the question lol

 

[nbwingsfan]

Nah this is some major copium. Making the playoffs matters and I don't believe for one second you wouldn't rather watch them play an extra 4 games if that is all they got then continue the playoff drought.

Going to be 9 years this year. I am a Leafs fan who had the same streak.. I know what it feels like you are craving playoffs but coping because you don't trust your rebuild

Bro lol have you even read a single post in this thread.

I think I’ve said to now 4 times it would be better to have made the postseason. But the difference LONG TERM between finishing 16th place and finishing 17th-18th place is essentially meaningless

 

[nbwingsfan]

I’m struggling at the broader point here. That the Wings “basically” already made the playoffs? Did the Oilers “basically” already win the Cup? This is just full incrementalism to the extreme. They missed the playoffs in a pretty easy year to make it. It’s not a great reflection.

To quote for the 4th time….

Long term, does finishing 16th place vs finishing 18th place do a single thing to help the team become a contender besides getting (dominated) in playoff experience?

Would the Wings be a better team today or next year if they’re had a single extra point last season?

 

[nbwingsfan]

if they suck again next year it surely would b dissappointing. but Imo he should and will get at least 2 more seasons after this 1 BC the team has been drafting and delevoping so well.

Nah. By next year he’ll have like 6-7 drafted players on the team. He has a TON of cap space to make a meaningful move to help the team now and long term.

There’s no excuse (minus critical injuries) that they shouldn’t be in next season

 

[nbwingsfan]

Very little difference in terms of draft position, yes.

I think most would argue there is a significant benefit to making the playoffs in terms of team culture, morale, internal expectations, experience, etc.

So you think if the Wings had 1 extra OTp pt last season that they would be a much better team and in the playoffs right now?