Detroit Redwings Downfall

[dekelikekocur]

Your answer for Copp dead-ended when you said you were thankful that you didn't care about the opinions of people who said it was a bad signing initially... After conceding that it was a bad signing in hindsight.

That was the point you stopped discussing him.

Do you want his life story or something? Why do your kind always want to talk about stop gaps like they're something meaningful? Is that how far you're able to process? You don't seem to grasp that not a single UFA signing that Yzerman has made is part of the core and serves no other purpose than to be a replacement level player that will be replaced by a kid or trade.

Copp is as meaningful to this franchise as you are to the overall conversation about Det. In other words, no lasting impact or meaningful contribution.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

What would have been materially different if they won the tiebreaker last season and got in?

Does anything change?

I think the real question is what if they didn't lose 7-straight games under the real dunce-cap of a head coach that Yzerman actually allowed to return this season.

And that's hard to say, considering that the Detroit Tigers made the playoffs and even won a round and didn't make any major additions (and are still parading Javier Baez, literally the worst MLB player in history by his stats and not buying him out).

It's an insult to the fans. But what's the common denominator between the Tigers and Red Wings?

As for how long "proper" rebuilds take, I think you're wrong.

Carolina missed the playoffs 9 years in a row.

The Hurricanes were run by Sabres-level horrific management and immediately began turning around with the arrival of Don Waddell in 2018.

Colorado missed 7 out of a 9 year stretch.

Colorado wasn't rebuilding - they were attempting to remain competitive ala Ken Holland. After bottoming out despite a decent roster, they soon got right back into the thick of things when Sakic returned.

Dallas missed 8 out of a 10 year stretch.

Again, Dallas was plagued by poor management and immediately began an upswing when Jim Nill arrived.

New Jersey missed 9 out of a 10 year stretch.

They were run by Ray Shero, one of the worst general managers in recent hockey history.

Sharks will already be on 6 straight years outside.
Ducks 7 straight.

I'm sorry, when did the Sharks and Ducks hire the supposedly best GM in hockey?

Getting into the playoffs once or twice in a 10 year stretch and getting absolutely destroyed in the 1st round can't be so valuable that you don't see that proper rebuilds take this long.

The current Red Wings are not the Red Wings of Ken Holland's last playoff season, as in a bunch of over the hill vets and middling players that wouldn't make a major impact in the NHL with only one young bright spot in Larkin.

Larkin has played in 5 playoff games in his career, and they were all in his rookie year. Seider and Raymond are 99% going to be going into year 5 of their careers with no playoffs. And yes, they need to make the playoffs (even to get smacked in the mouth a few times) in order to learn the realities of playoff hockey, like Yzerman was in his early playing career.

The plan cannot - I repeat, absolutely cannot - be for Detroit to be back in the playoffs only when they're Cup ready.

Last year was the year Detroit needed to be a Wild Card club (they would have had they not fallen face-first into a portapotty in March), and this was the season they needed to take a quantum leap forward from that (except once again, they've imploded in March.)

Yzerman completely dropped the ball with the Walman trade, the Gustafsson signing, the Tarasenko signing (though I'm willing to accept that almost nobody could have predicted that he'd be THIS useless), and bringing back a clearly unqualified head coach with all of the motivational skills of soggy cardboard.

 

[dekelikekocur]

I understand it well.... but thanks for the condescension.

Do you understand that a good organization has a Plan A, a Plan B and a Plan C? If Plan A doesn't work out, do you just shrug your shoulders and say "well shucks, we didn't get our top target" and just go sign whichever crap player is available to fill your cap space?

But what you can do is plan accordingly and target overall players that fit into the organization.

When you keep making the same invalid point, it's not condensation. It's literally telling you to reassess your thought process because with your outlook/representation of it, you're gonna end up in serious legal trouble.

The rest of your drivel just reinforces yet again, you don't understand or you refuse to. There is a finite supply of players, there are 31 other teams, there's a serious lack of impactful UFAs. What UFAs has Ottawa signed or Buffalo or CBJ? If a player didn't want to go to any of those places to begin with, they didn't sign them period. Hell, players force themselves off those teams(not so much CBJ currently). Compare where Detroit is now to where Tampa was when they building up, or any other team in contention in their building phase, high end players didn't go there to sign.

 

[dekelikekocur]

Plenty of teams dealing with those same limitations. If you can’t fill a position in free agency you do your best to make trades to fill out the roster that way. Put those 2nd and 3rd rounders to use.

Bottom line is their pro scouting has been incredibly uninspired.

Or if you have kids who are a year or two out, why waste assets when you aren't in your window and can be patient with development?

Yzerman has no pressure to try to trade to fill spots if the player doesn't fit his need/timeline or what he's willing to pay. Tossing around lower round picks isn't a big deal as lets be real, what are the odds of making the NHL for a 2nd rounder or later? Look at the Debrincat to Detroit situation, Yzerman had him in the bag, could have probably gotten the trade done much sooner but that contract extension was part of it all, without it, I doubt that trade happens. The flip side is OTT acquiring Debrincat without having that extension, OTT acquiring Chychrun (I can never spell his name right) without having that extension. Yzerman seems to take very little risk, which at times irritates the hell out of me but he has Chris's ear, whereas I do not have Chris's ear.

 

[WarriorofTime]

When you keep making the same invalid point, it's not condensation. It's literally telling you to reassess your thought process because with your outlook/representation of it, you're gonna end up in serious legal trouble.

The rest of your drivel just reinforces yet again, you don't understand or you refuse to. There is a finite supply of players, there are 31 other teams, there's a serious lack of impactful UFAs. What UFAs has Ottawa signed or Buffalo or CBJ? If a player didn't want to go to any of those places to begin with, they didn't sign them period. Hell, players force themselves off those teams(not so much CBJ currently). Compare where Detroit is now to where Tampa was when they building up, or any other team in contention in their building phase, high end players didn't go there to sign.

There is literally NO INDUSTRY where "we had a good plan, it just didn't work out!" is an acceptable response.

"We had a great business model and offered a great product, the customers just chose not to buy our products and we can't force them!"

It's on Detroit to identify REALISTIC targets that they have an opportunity to obtain and to make their team more desirable for those players to come aboard. That is the result on which such a thing is based upon. For being the smartest guy in the room, you'd think you would in fact understand this is exactly how it worked.

Your lack of creativity (or I suppose, Detroit's) in being able to think through this is nobody else's problem. Nobody is forced to make mediocre acquisitions. That the Yzerman Brothers did is a poor reflection on their performance, not some systemic force working against them.

Perhaps if Steve expands his list of hires more outside his immediate family members and old buddies, someone in Detroit's pro scouting can get them where they ought to be.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Or if you have kids who are a year or two out, why waste assets when you aren't in your window and can be patient with development?

Yzerman has no pressure to try to trade to fill spots if the player doesn't fit his need/timeline or what he's willing to pay. Tossing around lower round picks isn't a big deal as lets be real, what are the odds of making the NHL for a 2nd rounder or later? Look at the Debrincat to Detroit situation, Yzerman had him in the bag, could have probably gotten the trade done much sooner but that contract extension was part of it all, without it, I doubt that trade happens. The flip side is OTT acquiring Debrincat without having that extension, OTT acquiring Chychrun (I can never spell his name right) without having that extension. Yzerman seems to take very little risk, which at times irritates the hell out of me but he has Chris's ear, whereas I do not have Chris's ear.

DeBrincat and Chychurn weren’t eligible for an extension, when Senators traded for them.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Well the difference in this case is Tampa hit on a bunch of picks out of their top 10's. I even said those were good picks... But the team is still stuck in mediocrity. there needs to be something that could improve where they are... Or this thread doesnt exist.

I mean there are several guys in Detroit's system right now that are secondary picks with solid potential.

Is there a Kucherov or a Point? Probably not. But when you're getting Seider's and Edvinsson's and Raymond's out of your Top 10 picks, you don't necessarily need them to be. Yzerman's Top 10 picks in Tampa were guys like Koekkoek, Connolly, and Drouin.

They kinda offset.

 

[Frobbo]

One thing that doesn't get a lot of play is SY's pursuit of Trouba and Stamkos by all reports. I would be very concerned about my front office if they thought this would be very helpful. I don't know what a trade might have cost for Trouba or how much money for Stamkos would have cost but I have a hard time seeing this as sound decision making. Maybe their lack of appeal as a place to play actually saved them from more glaring mistakes.

 

[dekelikekocur]

There is literally NO INDUSTRY where "we had a good plan, it just didn't work out!" is an acceptable response.

"We had a great business model and offered a great product, the customers just chose not to buy our products and we can't force them!"

It's on Detroit to identify REALISTIC targets that they have an opportunity to obtain and to make their team more desirable for those players to come aboard. That is the result on which such a thing is based upon. For being the smartest guy in the room, you'd think you would in fact understand this is exactly how it worked.

Your lack of creativity (or I suppose, Detroit's) in being able to think through this is nobody else's problem. Nobody is forced to make mediocre acquisitions. That the Yzerman Brothers did is a poor reflection on their performance, not some systemic force working against them.

Perhaps if Steve expands his list of hires more outside his immediate family members and old buddies, someone in Detroit's pro scouting can get them where they ought to be.

Maybe you don't really understand much of anything about anything? We had a plan and it didn't work out literally happens frequently in M&A. We had a plan and it didn't work out happens all of the time in development and specially in pharma. We had a plan and it didn't work out happens frequently in hiring new talent. Hell, I'm sitting here with my hands tied waiting on HR to do their thing about a new hire I'm trying to land and odds are my candidate is probably going to take another role.

There are a lot of times in life where the realistic best case scenario is still just a shitty scenario, shit happens and ya just roll with it. And it all comes back to, who cares, they're stop gap replacement level players. My god you people act like f***ing Holl is gonna be part of the core or that Petry isn't gone at the end of the year or that Mrazek or Talbot or Lyon will impede Cossa or Trey from progressing. Find another tree to bark up cuz this one is bored with your poorly thought out bullshit.

 

[dekelikekocur]

I mean there are several guys in Detroit's system right now that are secondary picks with solid potential.

Is there a Kucherov or a Point? Probably not. But when you're getting Seider's and Edvinsson's and Raymond's out of your Top 10 picks, you don't necessarily need them to be. Yzerman's Top 10 picks in Tampa were guys like Koekkoek, Connolly, and Drouin.

They kinda offset.

I was really hoping we'd get a good look at Mazur this year but he's had a horrible year for injuries.

 

[Gerulaitis]

Bowman's Detroit was one of the best clubs in history.

Unfortunately their downfall is continuing for almost 15 years.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Maybe you don't really understand much of anything about anything? We had a plan and it didn't work out literally happens frequently in M&A. We had a plan and it didn't work out happens all of the time in development and specially in pharma. We had a plan and it didn't work out happens frequently in hiring new talent. Hell, I'm sitting here with my hands tied waiting on HR to do their thing about a new hire I'm trying to land and odds are my candidate is probably going to take another role.

There are a lot of times in life where the realistic best case scenario is still just a shitty scenario, shit happens and ya just roll with it. And it all comes back to, who cares, they're stop gap replacement level players. My god you people act like f***ing Holl is gonna be part of the core or that Petry isn't gone at the end of the year or that Mrazek or Talbot or Lyon will impede Cossa or Trey from progressing. Find another tree to bark up cuz this one is bored with your poorly thought out bullshit.

That’s why you have plan A, plan B and plan C. If your plan if you don’t land your preferred candidate is to say “aww shucks” and hire a bad candidate, you didn’t do your job well. If that bad candidate you hired performs poorly, that’s going to reflect poorly on you and “but I wanted someone better!” won’t be seen as an acceptable excuse.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

One thing that doesn't get a lot of play is SY's pursuit of Trouba and Stamkos by all reports. I would be very concerned about my front office if they thought this would be very helpful. I don't know what a trade might have cost for Trouba or how much money for Stamkos would have cost but I have a hard time seeing this as sound decision making. Maybe their lack of appeal as a place to play actually saved them from more glaring mistakes.

Trouba is one thing, but there was a story floating around months ago that Yzerman had a deal in place for Stamkos but never heard back from Chris Ilitch. Whether or not that's true, we don't really know.

But it's completely feasible because Chris Ilitch is a cheapskate with none of the passion for sports that his father had.

 

[Dotter]

Yzerman may have had limited options in free agency. Detroit isn’t the easiest sell right now:

• Still rebuilding
• Lacking star power
• No tax advantages
• Unclear playoff future

He may have wanted bigger or better signings—but the reality may be, better players didn’t want to come, or wanted too much $$. So he had to settle for who would sign under his terms.

 

[Dotter]

I don't need to compare it to anything. It's a statement of fact. A proper rebuild does not take 6 (going on 7) years to yield a single playoff appearance if done correctly.



That's what the first 2-3 years were for fixing. By year 4, it's go time.



I couldn't care less about what other teams are doing. They're not being run by the supposed best GM in hockey.

In case you forgot, Ottawa has been in the playoffs since Detroit last was, and by all indications, they're going to be back in before Detroit is. And if "but but Buffalo" is your excuse, as in perhaps the worst-run franchise in all sports, your argument has failed.




They're at the point where they should be going through growing pains in the playoffs. What's your plan, to have Larkin's prime completely wasted? For Raymond and Seider to be 6 years into their careers before they finally appear in a playoff game?



Nobody said trade the entire farm for Rantanen or something crazy.

Adding a depth piece at a low cost (the time for hoarding draft picks is over) to reward the team for turning the season around under McLellan wasn't unreasonable (and by all indications, the dressing room isn't happy that wasn't done.)

If Yzerman's intentions aren't to make serious additions to this team unless they're "Cup ready", that's a terrible strategy.


Translation: More excuses for Yzerman's terrible offseason signings.



ASP has the potential to be elite. Eveyrone else? Not so much. (If Cossa is progressing well, then why he is not with the team now? Why is Detroit actually content to go into next year with an aging Talbot and Mrazek's 3.50 GAA?)



Oh look the "look what he inherited" excuse.

Irrelevant. It's year 6. This is a business. Start producing results, or you're fired.

(The majority of the fanbase feels the timeline isn't moving fast enough. Your kind, aka the "trust the Yzerplan" simps, is shrinking rapidly with each passing year.)



The Red Wings haven't made the playoffs since 2017. The time for patience is over.

You're free to continue to have that patience - something you don't get to do is get offended when fans start demanding more (like a single playoff spot after literally the longest drought in the team's near 100 year history) and are no longer content to "just wait for the kids", which is nothing but pure hopium.



You're picking up your own scent with that take. This is the part where you need to recognize that you and everyone else continuing to bleat "trust the Yzerplan" who are content to wait until 2030 for the Red Wings to be back in the playoffs are in the extreme minority.

We've been patient enough. Take off the Yzerman jammies from 1998, turn off the 2002 Stanley Cup DVD, and start living in 2025.

clearly the only reason the Wings aren’t contenders yet is because Yzerman forgot to consult you during the rebuild. Maybe next time he’ll speed things up to match your playoff attention span.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Don't worry, the saviour Nate Danielson is on the way.

ASP (Defense being our biggest need)
Danielson
Bulchlnikov
MBN
Whoever the hell they pick this season

The same things were said about Kasper and now he’s been probably our third best forward since the coaching change after finally being taken off the 4th line. Scoring like 22 in his last 30 or something like that.

You can criticize Yzerman for a ton of things, but not for his drafting

 

[nbwingsfan]

I don't need to compare it to anything. It's a statement of fact. A proper rebuild does not take 6 (going on 7) years to yield a single playoff appearance if done correctly.



That's what the first 2-3 years were for fixing. By year 4, it's go time.



I couldn't care less about what other teams are doing. They're not being run by the supposed best GM in hockey.

In case you forgot, Ottawa has been in the playoffs since Detroit last was, and by all indications, they're going to be back in before Detroit is. And if "but but Buffalo" is your excuse, as in perhaps the worst-run franchise in all sports, your argument has failed.




They're at the point where they should be going through growing pains in the playoffs. What's your plan, to have Larkin's prime completely wasted? For Raymond and Seider to be 6 years into their careers before they finally appear in a playoff game?



Nobody said trade the entire farm for Rantanen or something crazy.

Adding a depth piece at a low cost (the time for hoarding draft picks is over) to reward the team for turning the season around under McLellan wasn't unreasonable (and by all indications, the dressing room isn't happy that wasn't done.)

If Yzerman's intentions aren't to make serious additions to this team unless they're "Cup ready", that's a terrible strategy.


Translation: More excuses for Yzerman's terrible offseason signings.



ASP has the potential to be elite. Eveyrone else? Not so much. (If Cossa is progressing well, then why he is not with the team now? Why is Detroit actually content to go into next year with an aging Talbot and Mrazek's 3.50 GAA?)



Oh look the "look what he inherited" excuse.

Irrelevant. It's year 6. This is a business. Start producing results, or you're fired.

(The majority of the fanbase feels the timeline isn't moving fast enough. Your kind, aka the "trust the Yzerplan" simps, is shrinking rapidly with each passing year.)



The Red Wings haven't made the playoffs since 2017. The time for patience is over.

You're free to continue to have that patience - something you don't get to do is get offended when fans start demanding more (like a single playoff spot after literally the longest drought in the team's near 100 year history) and are no longer content to "just wait for the kids", which is nothing but pure hopium.



You're picking up your own scent with that take. This is the part where you need to recognize that you and everyone else continuing to bleat "trust the Yzerplan" who are content to wait until 2030 for the Red Wings to be back in the playoffs are in the extreme minority.

We've been patient enough. Take off the Yzerman jammies from 1998, turn off the 2002 Stanley Cup DVD, and start living in 2025.

I haven’t liked almost a single thing Yzerman has done the past 12 months, but this idea of “we haven’t made the post season just to get shredded in the 1st round” therefore the whole rebuild is bad” is just weird thinking.

Would it be nice to be in the playoffs? Sure

Would I have liked Yzerman to make moves at the last two deadline to help us get there? Yup.

Would it be better to be patient and build a team who can actually challenge for the cup? Yes

Do we need to be in the wildcard spot right now to become contenders? No.

 

[SirKillalot]

Yzerman's sample size is now quite long. That is more the point.

Not really, you just don't understand the premise of how today's NHL works, what premise he took the job on and what premise the ownership agreed when he took the job. You might not like that approach, but that approach has been taken and it doesn't fit your narrative or perception of reality.

Staios has turned a terrible defensive team into a strong one. He insulated the young core with strong veterans that have brought the best out of them.

He has gotten in some veterans who got them back to where they were supposed to be before. He hasn't elevated them to something they haven't been yet. Yes at the moment they are 11th in goals against. So they done better.

He clearly had a vision and executed it under less than ideal circumstances.

So, similar to Yzerman but had a lot better starting point where he didn't have to use years to first ship players out, draft talent and develop them. He got in charge when they had a lot of pieces in place.

Ottawa's young core is still improving, it will be slow and methodical but I dont think its going to get any worse when we check back in 2 years. Stutzle, Pinto, Sanderson, Cozens, Greig are still not fully developed and haven't entered their prime years yet in terms of development.

So when Ottawa does this strategy its okay, but when Detroit does, its not. Got it.
Fact is these teams are similar, now Ottawa is in a position Detroit was last year, lets see if they hold on or improve to go even higher this year. I agree with your argument, its just that its the same Detroit has.

 

[SirKillalot]

How about a long sample size of 6 years in which a team is skating an AHL-level defense

There is 11 teams getting scored on more than Detroit. Must be a lot of AHL players in the NHL at the moment.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

This team started falling apart when Copp got injured. Any Copp slander will not be tolerated.

It is kind of f***ing bonkers that the Wings are still technically in the wild card hunt while having lottery odds.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Not really, you just don't understand the premise of how today's NHL works, what premise he took the job on and what premise the ownership agreed when he took the job. You might not like that approach, but that approach has been taken and it doesn't fit your narrative or perception of reality.

The reality is Detroit had already been rebuilding for a few years prior to Yzerman taking the job. Everything he's done has been consistent with that as he largely let the "Holland era" picks run out their natural course (the older Svechnikov, Cholowski, Smith, Hronek, Rasmussen, Lindstrom, Zadina, Veleno, Berggren, etc.) pulled the team out of a tank with some of his spending/posturing, handed Larkin an 8-year extension as a franchise player. As much as people present it like the Red Wings pressed a hard reset button on April 19, 2019 on the day Steve Yzerman was hired and started everything from scratch at that point, this is not what happened. They would have likely been better off today if they had done so (of the aforementioned list of prospects, Hronek who is a very good player was the only one that returned them anything while Rasmussen and Berggren are on the roster now), but it was generally more of a continuation, he did after all work under Ken Holland from 2006-07 to 2009-10. Wings rebuild has been both slow and also not that tanky as they only had a bottom three finish one time in the entire 8 straight missed playoff stretch. It's a bit of an odd combo. The hard justifications of "the kids need to learn how to compete" is of course contradicted with "but we don't want to JUST make the playoffs" so what, they just finish in 23rd place instead?

 

[SirKillalot]

The reality is Detroit had already been rebuilding for a few years prior to Yzerman taking the job.

Everything he's done has been consistent with that as he largely let the "Holland era" picks run out their natural course (the older Svechnikov, Cholowski, Smith, Hronek, Rasmussen, Lindstrom, Zadina, Veleno, Berggren, etc.) pulled the team out of a tank with some of his spending/posturing, handed Larkin an 8-year extension as a franchise player.

As much as people present it like the Red Wings pressed a hard reset button on April 19, 2019 on the day Steve Yzerman was hired and started everything from scratch at that point, this is not what happened.

To take all of the three under one.

Well its not entirely true. So Detroit gave Ken Holland the option to move up in the hierarchy in 2010 I believe it was. When he didn't and wanted to continue he got a long term contract and Yzerman decided to leave. Turning down Minnesota in 2009 and signing with Tampa Bay 2010 when he didn't become GM of Detroit. To give some back story.
Holland did start trading some players off in the last year or two, but it was a bit half hearted process. He wanted to keep them as competitive as possible for the longest time cause he knew a rebuild would take time and given his age and length as GM, he didn't want to go through that process. Thus he reluctantly finally started it so slightly right before.
When Yzerman took over, he wanted to give some of these players the chance, he could see there was talent there, but it wasn't necessarily players he would have drafted himself.

Then some didn't take some steps he hoped for. thus they got traded. Then trading Mantha, Bertuzzi and Hronek when he saw they aren't going to be key peaces for a shorter timeline, meaning we not gonna get to that level he wanted with them as key drivers in a team. Thus decided to trade them and in turn unless hitting on getting top 3 talent in the draft, forcing a longer rebuild. That's just the fact of it.
Got pretty good return on all of those players.

Svechnikov and Zadina never turned out what we thought, though my opinion is also they got a bit shafted as they were not set into a position of where they could succeed or told to play games their style wasn't. In my opinion should never have drafted Rasmussen where he was drafted. He rightfully so have taken steps last couple of years but not to the point where I believe he was worth being drafted in such position.

Cholowski a bit of the same. Started well initially, but never figured out how to give him the proper ice-time, teammates, how to play him etc. Inconsistency would be the right word for how the usage of these players were. Veleno I don't think were given the room to play where he should play, also he himself I think lost confidence and used a lot of time to kind of get that back to some degree.
Similar with Berggren too, being moved around too much and not given time to find his position within the roster.

They would have likely been better off today if they had done son (of the aforementioned list of prospects, Hronek who is a very good player was the only one that returned them anything while Rasmussen and Berggren are on the roster now)

I think Hronek, Bertuzzi and Mantha all got good returns.

Wings rebuild has been both slow and also not that tanky as they only had a bottom three finish one time in the entire 8 straight missed playoff stretch. It's a bit of an odd combo.

I agree, and to me what it seems is they were trying to quote on quote tank and never got better than a 4th overall, thus Yzerman decided at some point this isn't working. We got better players than this and need to be higher up with this talent. In my opinion this is where I wish he had one more year of patience with it, even though it wouldn't be a sure top 2 talent. That is one of my few criticism of him.

The hard justifications of "the kids need to learn how to compete" is of course contradicted with "but we don't want to JUST make the playoffs" so what, they just finish in 23rd place instead?

Yeah I agree, as mentioned above I think we should have had one more year of being in the bottom and maybe should have not signed / shipped out more to make sure that happened. Cause I believe that talent is/was needed.

That being said, they have drafted really well in the 1st round with the position they got, it just takes a bit longer for them to make the team. Just need those 2nd-4th rounders to have a group of players making the team as well.

 

[Frobbo]

I think Hronek, Bertuzzi and Mantha all got good returns.

Doesn't that defeat the narrative that the cupboard when he came on board was barren? Isn't where they are at (in a good way) partly due to KH? The oft repeated story is that it was completely a wasteland in Detroit. SY had and used some Holland assets to get where he is today instead of starting from zero the way so many supporters here claim.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

clearly the only reason the Wings aren’t contenders yet is because Yzerman forgot to consult you during the rebuild. Maybe next time he’ll speed things up to match your playoff attention span.

And we’re right back to the lazy “oh you think you know better?” defensive mechanism.

Next time, just concede that you had no factual counterpoints and admit that you can’t bring yourself to criticize your childhood hero.

Better luck next time, Yzerbot.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Doesn't that defeat the narrative that the cupboard when he came on board was barren? Isn't where they are at (in a good way) partly due to KH? The oft repeated story is that it was completely a wasteland in Detroit. SY had and used some Holland assets to get where he is today instead of starting from zero the way so many supporters here claim.

Yeah Larkin was 22, T. Bertuzzi was 24, Mantha was 24, Athanasiou was 24 (who returned 2 second round picks, plus Sam Gagner who was a stopgap player for a few years) in terms of "young NHLers" in addition to the "prospects" identified. It wasn't a "goldmine" but it also wasn't as much of a "starting from Day 1" as it's made out to be.