Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Golden_Jet]

are you saying they decided to lose 10 games just to make it interesting?

No , I’m saying its a terrible comparison, to a cup winning team, that won the presidents trophy by 7 points even after those losses.

 

[Czechboy]

View attachment 998689

The hot streak is wildly different from the rest. Not the first 35 games. Not the last 18 games. But those 18 games right after xmas.

 

[dragonballgtz]

are you saying they decided to lose 10 games just to make it interesting?

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

No , I’m saying its a terrible comparison, to a cup winning team, that won the presidents trophy by 7 points even after those losses.

i'm not saying the 24-25 wings are as good as the 07-08 wings. i'm simply pointing out that even the best of the best teams go through extended periods of poor play and/or bad luck

if the 07-08 wings went 1 for 11 in february, the 24-25 wings going 2 for 10 in march isn't that crazy

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Can we break this down though?

Duncan Keith? He's a Mike Smith pick.
Seabrook, Bolland, Bickell, and Hjalmarsson? Bob Pullford.
Towes and Kane? Dale Tallon.

Stamkos? Jay Feaster.
Hedman? Brian Lawton.
Kucherov, Nameestnikov, Palat, Drouin, Point, and Cirelli? Steve Yzerman.

Brown, Kopitar, and Quick? Dave Taylor.

You're not wrong to say that a rebuild can take a hell of a time to see the results pay off, but how often is it that the *next* GM is the one who gets to enjoy the glory of it? Of the examples you've given, only Dean Lombardi managed to both add critical pieces *and* keep his head above water long enough to reach that success.

Yzerman's plan may work out in the end, but unless the team starts making major steps, he might not last long enough to see it.

He's NEVER getting fired he's Steve Yzerman in Detroit

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

He's NEVER getting fired he's Steve Yzerman in Detroit

how i sleep knowing detroit will win multiple cups before toronto ever gets out of the second round

 

[VivaLasVegas]

I do wonder if they call pull it off. Here is the record, under the Koala, since February 1st.

View attachment 998657

Here is the entire record, under Lalonde,

View attachment 998659

And here is hot streak, under Koala, in between! December 25th to February 1st.

View attachment 998662

And, to be fair, here is Koala's entire run:

View attachment 998663

Seems like folks confused a new coach bump with something more permanent.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

how i sleep knowing detroit will win multiple cups before toronto ever gets out of the second roundView attachment 998711

work on getting to the playoffs before you start talking about 1 cup let alone multiple

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

work on getting to the playoffs before you start talking about 1 cup let alone multiple

i mean, the leafs have only made the 2nd round once in 20 years. is that better than missing the playoffs for 9 years?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

i mean, the leafs have only made the 2nd round once in 20 years. is that better than missing the playoffs for 9 years?

Yes, significantly because atleast they can say they've been playing playoff rounds for the last 9 years

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Yes, significantly because atleast they can say they've been playing playoff rounds for the last 9 years

hey, whatever helps you sleep better at night

 

[Overcast]

hey, whatever helps you sleep better at night

Lay off the copium brother, it's not good for your brain

 

[Dotter]

Dorion certainly was backed into a corner by his own incompetence and got fleeced.

Then Staios turned around and used the 1st round pick the Sens go from Detroit as the main piece to get Ullmark.

If the Wings had Ullmark instead of DeBrincat, they'd be likely on the verge of making the playoffs. They have a decent roster, but average to bad goaltenders the last few years have been their Waterloo.

There is no reason they couldn't have traded for Ullmark, but Staios is a better GM than Yzerman.

There is no guarantee their kids will become above-average goalies. Heck, the Sens' Merilainen is .925 and 1.99 in 12 NHL games this year and better AHL stats than Cossa, and I'm not guaranteening he'll be above-average.

Weird comment. Ullmark wasn't on the trade market when Yzerman fleeced OTT. He also had a NTC.
Ottawa paid a 1st-rounder and more to land a guy with one year left on his deal, who has a no-trade clause, aging, + a bit of an injury history, and is coming from a system in Boston that heavily inflated his numbers.

1. Ullmark isn’t a plug-and-play savior – His Vezina season came behind the NHL’s top defense. You drop him into a younger, less structured team like Detroit (especially last year), and he’s not the same goalie. Ottawa’s banking on him rebounding in a new system — that’s still a risk.
2. He wasn’t available last summer – Boston wasn’t shopping him then. The goalie market only really opened up that year, and Ullmark had a say in where he could go. There’s no guarantee he would’ve waived for Detroit, even if Yzerman had made the offer.
3. DeBrincat made sense for Detroit – At the time, DeBrincat was a 40-goal winger who wanted to come home. Yzerman got him at a discount relative to market value, and he filled a glaring scoring need. Goaltending is an issue now, sure — but last summer, Husso had just posted a .919 in 56 games for St. Louis. That wasn’t a bad bet at the time for a low risk contract.
4. Cap flexibility and timing matters – Ullmark is $5M AAV for one more year. If Detroit gave up a 1st + assets for him and he walked in 2025? That’s a disaster. DeBrincat signed long-term, in his prime. That’s smarter roster building. If he walked after giving up a 1st, that'd be Ottawa level of suckage!
5. Calling Staios a better GM already is laughable – One trade doesn’t make a better GM. Let’s wait and see how Ullmark performs outside Boston’s bubble before declaring any kind of GM superiority. If he starts to struggle in Ottawa, that “genius move” suddenly doesn’t look so great.
   
   
   I haven't been that impressed with Ullmark overall since going to OTT. He's been streaky.
   
   
   

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

they had the president's trophy locked up by the beginning of february? lol, i call bullshit

Um, they were 41-10-4. Even with the slide, nobody came close to catching them.

the reality is that halfway through the slide, red wings fans were losing their minds and predicting the season was over. i'm certain that you were one of them

Yeah, no. Not even remotely. I fully remember that slide and while it was starting to get concerning, literally nobody was saying that the season was over. They were still 1st overall in the division, the Conference, and the NHL as a whole.

 

[deca guard]

Hasn't he been trying to do that by adding depth players that don't work out?

if you understood how rebuilding an nhl team works you'd realize that if you sign too good of ufa early in the process it weakens your draft position , you know draft position which is gigantically important to rebuilding a team because the earlier you pick the better the odds of adding better quality players ! and if you dont realize that yzerman-draper-hakan-maltby-etc are completely aware of the talent level of all 1000 nhlers you need to rethink your opinion . yzerman knew exactly how good chariot-holl-compher-copp were , and that they were bottom 6 level players that wouldnt seriously improve record . but thats what he wanted because if he woulda signed dougie hamilton-johnny hockey-kadri they woulda improved team just enough to get into playoffs but not win cup . mean while those better players cost him booth huge long term cap space he will need to sign guys like edvinsson , and also cost him all kinds of draft spots which woulda cost him chances to draft players like kasper n danielsson whom might turn out to be long term top 6 extremely important career red wings !!!!!!!! better ufa signings these past 4 seasons would have seriously cost redwimngs future while not doing enough to improve those past 4 seasons to make fans excited !!!!!!!!! but keep thinking you know better than yzerman-draper-hakan-etc who've been in nhl circles 4 decades . mean while ignoring how excellebnt most of yzermans draft pix are doing

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

nope, i'm just proving with evidence that even the best of teams go through down periods. you should be acutely aware of that fact

This isn't a random "down period". It's the third straight year in which they've completely imploded in March and destroyed their chances of the playoffs.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

hey, whatever helps you sleep better at night

Hey maybe you'll see a playoff game that involves your team by 2030.

I doubt it though.

 

[ManofSteel55]

if you understood how rebuilding an nhl team works you'd realize that if you sign too good of ufa early in the process it weakens your draft position , you know draft position which is gigantically important to rebuilding a team because the earlier you pick the better the odds of adding better quality players ! and if you dont realize that yzerman-draper-hakan-maltby-etc are completely aware of the talent level of all 1000 nhlers you need to rethink your opinion . yzerman knew exactly how good chariot-holl-compher-copp were , and that they were bottom 6 level players that wouldnt seriously improve record . but thats what he wanted because if he woulda signed dougie hamilton-johnny hockey-kadri they woulda improved team just enough to get into playoffs but not win cup . mean while those better players cost him booth huge long term cap space he will need to sign guys like edvinsson , and also cost him all kinds of draft spots which woulda cost him chances to draft players like kasper n danielsson whom might turn out to be long term top 6 extremely important career red wings !!!!!!!! better ufa signings these past 4 seasons would have seriously cost redwimngs future while not doing enough to improve those past 4 seasons to make fans excited !!!!!!!!! but keep thinking you know better than yzerman-draper-hakan-etc who've been in nhl circles 4 decades . mean while ignoring how excellebnt most of yzermans draft pix are doing

Hey, I'm an Oilers fan. I understand how rebuilding works. I also understand how it fails. Your Justin Holl signing was reminiscent of many failed tank year signings that the Oilers made. No need to be rude about it.

 

[Dotter]

Wrong.

The Lightning made the Conference Final in his first year. After missing for two straight years, they were right back in the playoffs in 2014. There was no 6 year drought under Yzerman (or 10 straight overall).,

Kucherov was drafted in 2011; he was in the NHL in 2013. Point was drafted in 2014 and was in the NHL in 2015. Vasilevskiy was drafted in 2012 and was in the NHL in 2014. They all stepped in and immediately began making meaningful contributions.

Furthermore, Kucherov, Vasilevskiy and Point are superstars. There is literally zero indication that Nate Danielson and his 9 goals in 61 AHL games will reach that level. How about Michael Brandsegg-Nygard and his 5 goals in 42 games this season?

We saw what Carter Mazur and his non-existent upper body look like at the NHL level - it lasted two shifts.

Going into year 7 on the job with no playoffs is unacceptable. There was no such drought with the Lightning. Spare me the "patient" nonsense. Jeff Vinnik, a real NHL owner, would never have allowed it.

The Red Wings must make the playoffs comfortably next season, or Yzerman needs to be fired. Period, end of story. No more coasting on his last name with terrible free agent signings and the excuse of "just wait for the kids" and demanding that the paying customers continue to shell out ridiculous money for a product that they openly admit isn't trying to win yet.



Again, there's literally zero indication that any of these prospects aside from Sandin-Pellikka (which are nothing but job security for Yzerman to try and excuse his abysmal free-agent signings and the horrible decision to hire and keep Lalonde) will be elite NHL talents.

They're "near" the playoff bubble? That's the standard in Detroit? Let's see if a surgeon can get away with "Well, I almost saved my patients even if they all ended up dying on the operating table! Just give me 3-4 more years!"


A rebuild does not - I repeat - DOES NOT take 6 full years just to barely scrap into the playoffs if done correctly.

They're competitive? They're 2-10 in their last 12 games and just got blasted by a combined score of 10-4 in their last two games. They're melting down in the most crucial part of the schedule for the 3rd straight year.

Cap flexibility? They had $14 million to use at the Trade Deadline and acquired the corpse of Craig Smith and decided for some bizarre reason to bring back Mrazek and his 3.50 GAA (he and Talbot are under contract for another year, which means another year of no Cossa.)

How did they use their cap space in the summer (besides the Raymond and Seider contracts, which should not have taken until training camp had already started to work out)? How are those Tarasenko and Gustafsson deals looking? How about the Copp and Compher Ken Holland-esque deals?

Deep in prospects? Again, literally zero indication that any of these prospects (AKA job security) aside from ASP are going to be elite, game-changing talents. Detroit doesn't need more mid-level depth players - that's what they have now.

Fan patience is dwindling with Yzerman, as it should be. He's no longer able to coast on his last name and expect to be granted an endless runway just to make it back to the playoffs. Anyone else would have been fired by now.

Spare me the "but but he had to start with nothing" excuse. Irrelevant. He was the supposedly best GM in hockey, and he's going into year 7 with no playoff appearances (and yes, playoff experience is critical for players like Seider and Raymond, even if it means they get blasted in the first round).

"But Yzerman didn't win the Cup until he was 33! It takes time!" By the time 1997 rolled around, Yzerman had nearly 100 games of playoff experience.

This take is loud, but it misses a ton of context.

“A rebuild shouldn’t take six years if done correctly.”
What rebuild are you comparing it to? Detroit didn’t just need a retool — they needed a full teardown after the Holland era left them with no cap space, a bottom-tier farm system, and a bloated, aging core. This wasn’t flipping a few pieces — it was a ground-up restructure. Go look at what Chicago is going through right now. Even Buffalo and Ottawa, who started earlier than Detroit, haven’t made the leap yet.

“2-10 in their last 12, meltdown #3.”
Every team hits rough patches. That doesn’t erase the months of being in playoff contention with a roster that’s still maturing. And yes — collapsing down the stretch sucks, but growing teams often have to learn through those stumbles. This is still progress compared to where they were even 2 years ago.

“Cap flexibility misused at the deadline.”
The Wings didn’t go all-in because they weren’t a true contender — and that’s smart asset management. You don’t waste 1st-rounders or top prospects for rentals when your goal is sustained success. Talbot and Mrazek were cheap veteran placeholders, and Cossa has had exactly one full AHL season. Rushing goalies ruins more careers than it saves.

“Offseason signings were bad.”
Tarasenko and Gustafsson were short-term deals — low risk, possibly flippable at the deadline. As for Copp and Compher: every team needs middle-six depth and veteran centers who can play both ways. Overpaying slightly in free agency is normal — it’s not a Ken Holland mistake, it’s the price of insulating your youth.

“The prospect pool has no elite talent.”
ASP is elite. Cossa is progressing well. Nate Danielson, Marco Kasper, Edvinsson, Mazur, Soderblom — that's not nothing. You don’t need a dozen elite guys. You need a core with supporting cast. The system has depth and upside. That’s how you sustain success.

“Fan patience is dwindling — he should be fired.”
Yzerman inherited a mess and has built a team that today is sniffing the playoffs with cap flexibility, a deep prospect pool, and key players (like Seider and Raymond) already in place. You want to throw that away because the timeline isn’t moving fast enough for you?

This isn’t NHL 24. Building a sustainable contender in the modern NHL takes time, patience, and smart decisions — not knee-jerk trades to chase a wildcard spot. Yzerman’s not perfect, but saying he “should have been fired by now” is just reactionary noise.

Funny how the guy calling for Yzerman’s job still hasn’t built a coherent take in seven years. If patience isn’t your thing, maybe hockey’s not either—try microwave popcorn.

 

[Fearnot]

how i sleep knowing detroit will win multiple cups before toronto ever gets out of the second roundView attachment 998711

 

[Czechboy]

Hey, I'm an Oilers fan. I understand how rebuilding works. I also understand how it fails. Your Justin Holl signing was reminiscent of many failed tank year signings that the Oilers made. No need to be rude about it.

I think being life long oil fans have us two unique experiences.

1. We saw so many awful ufa signings, lost so many trades and had to listen to the same culture bullshit.

2. We have a real good idea what elite game breaking talent looks like.

Bonus points: we also know that waiting for every draft pick to materlize can end in disaster. Did for us anyways. We lost at least half our first rounders in the decade of darkness.. hall, Eberle, klefbom, JP, Yak, MPS, Gagner, hollo, bro and Xavier b come to mind. All great looking picks at the time. And my timeline may be off as mps to Xavier B is probably pushing it lol. But you get the idea.

 

[deca guard]

Hey, I'm an Oilers fan. I understand how rebuilding works. I also understand how it fails. Your Justin Holl signing was reminiscent of many failed tank year signings that the Oilers made. No need to be rude about it.

i wasnt trying to be rude , i was just being blunt n matter of factual because by your comment you dont understand the aspect of not getting just enough but not contender level too soon at the cost of your draft position like every yzer'basher has done in this thread . while at the same time the bashers ignoring what a great job hes done drafting , most not having slightest clue how good many of his prospects are doing because theyre so hyped up to insinuate they know better than yzerman thinking their nhl experts beyond steve '40 year nhler and architect of a tbay dynasty' yzerman . you bashers arent , you dont know better than yzerman whose been in nhl since early 80s and learned from guys like scotty bowman . and you live in ignorance of how difficult it is and how long it takes to rebuild the worst 50 man depth chart in nhl , he had nobody 2019 besides larkin n hronek . then the idiot designed draft , which btw should be determined by a teams 3 year record instead of one year , never gave him a pick earlier than 4th but he still nailed every pick from the seider homerun out of nowhere to raymond to edvinsson to looking like kasper , then about 10 prospects looking excellent after that . its irritating listening to people bash yzerman when theyre not knowledgable enough to do so....

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

if you understood how rebuilding an nhl team works you'd realize that if you sign too good of ufa early in the process it weakens your draft position , you know draft position which is gigantically important to rebuilding a team because the earlier you pick the better the odds of adding better quality players !

Let's go live to when the New York Rangers told Artemi Panarin they weren't interested in him.

and if you dont realize that yzerman-draper-hakan-maltby-etc are completely aware of the talent level of all 1000 nhlers you need to rethink your opinion .

They're apparently not aware, because they decided to pay Justin Holl millions of dollars over multiple years to play hockey for them - intentionally.

They paid a pylon like Chiarot millions of dollars over several years to play hockey for them - intentionally.

They decided to give Andrew Copp 2C money - intentionally.

yzerman knew exactly how good chariot-holl-compher-copp were , and that they were bottom 6 level players that wouldnt seriously improve record .

They were not signed to be bottom-6 players. Copp wasn't signed to routinely go 20 games without a single point. Compher had a decent season last year but has been invisible 90% of the time this season.

If Yzerman's true intentions were to sign players that "wouldn't seriously improve" their team, then he needs to step down.

but thats what he wanted because if he woulda signed dougie hamilton-johnny hockey-kadri they woulda improved team just enough to get into playoffs but not win cup . mean while those better players cost him booth huge long term cap space he will need to sign guys like edvinsson , and also cost him all kinds of draft spots which woulda cost him chances to draft players like kasper n danielsson whom might turn out to be long term top 6 extremely important career red wings !!!!!!!!

Jesus Christ, go back to grammar school.

Care to explain how you think Nate Danielson and his 9 goals in 61 AHL games is going to make a major impact on the Red Wings? How about Brandsegg-Nygard and his 5 goals in 40 games?

better ufa signings these past 4 seasons would have seriously cost redwimngs future while not doing enough to improve those past 4 seasons to make fans excited !!!!!!!!!

Uh, no - they would have improved the team and expedited this snail's-pace of a rebuild.

but keep thinking you know better than yzerman-draper-hakan-etc who've been in nhl circles 4 decades .

Oh, look, this argument again.

We don't have to think we know better - rational fans are looking at the results that they've delivered. The results they've delivered in the last several years have been bad, and worthy of heavy criticism and scrutiny.

Draper and Maltby's scouting at the pro level has been awful. Yzerman's free-agent signings (with Draper and Maltby's influence) aside from Kane have varied between severely underwhelming to downright abysmal.

Spare me the idiotic "Oh you think you know better??" nonsense. If that's really how you roll, then that means you think nobody is allowed to criticize anyone in entertainment, government, sports, or any other profession that they're not personally involved with. That's not how it works.

Fans are allowed to criticize a garbage product. Meanwhile, you and the other Yzerbots are free to continue being content with an endless runway because "trust the Yzerplan bro" and no meaningful results - the good news is that with each passing year of failure, there are fewer and fewer of you.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

After 6 seasons as GM "The Yzerplan" has his team sitting in 23rd place...how can anyone defend this is beyond me.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

its irritating listening to people bash yzerman when theyre not knowledgable enough to do so....

All hail Lord Yzerman! Dissenters to the stocks! Pay no attention to the fact that Yzerman has zero playoff appearances in 6 years on the job! You'll eat the gruel and like it!

Again, with your logic, fans are not allowed to criticize their respective team's management/ownership because they don't work in the NHL.