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Detroit Redwings Downfall

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jcs0218 said:
Detroit has never been the same ever since Mike Babcock chose the Toronto Maple Leafs over the Detroit Red Wings.

Kind of like how the Red Sox had "The Curse of the Bambino" when Ruth left to the Yankees, the Red Wings have had "The Curse of the Babcock".

Mike Babcock always bets on Mike Babcock, and he has managed to win this bet!
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They should bring him back, I was having a Little Caesar's za while omw to pick up a Ford vehicle and bump my Eminem/Kid Rock and saw Larkin browsing some extremely disgusting things, only Babs can straighten him out.
 
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WarriorofTime said:
Sounds like Yzerman needed to do a better job identifying a timeline. If they were still years away from playoffs, probably should have tanked it out for longer. If they were ready to win with Larkin's prime, probably should have made some more aggressive moves. Instead they kind of did a halfway approach where they've been shy of the playoffs but out of reach for the highest picks for multiple years.
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We've been over this plenty of times but you are basically just criticizing them for not being lucky in the draft lottery. Other teams that did "halfway approaches" but won lotteries seem to get a lot of credit for being smart. What if Detroit landed Heiskanen in 2017 instead of Dallas?
Lottery misfortunes doesn't absolve Holland/Wright of their terrible drafting, or Yzerman of some pro-scouting missteps, but despite years of asking there's been no one able to show a rebuild going much faster than Detroit's unless it was built on massive lottery luck.
 
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WarriorofTime said:
Red Wings only finished bottom three in the NHL one time (2019-20). The 3rd and 4th picks were better in that year's draft as it so happened anyways.
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Wings have done well with the cards dealt to them.

So when others say well you weren't that unlucky, fine. But the fact is 2017 we dropped two spots, 2018 we dropped one spot, 2019 we dropped two spots, 2020 we dropped three spots
 
Pavels Dog said:
We've been over this plenty of times but you are basically just criticizing them for not being lucky in the draft lottery. Other teams that did "halfway approaches" but won lotteries seem to get a lot of credit for being smart. What if Detroit landed Heiskanen in 2017 instead of Dallas?
Lottery misfortunes doesn't absolve Holland/Wright of their terrible drafting, or Yzerman of some pro-scouting missteps, but despite years of asking there's been no one able to show a rebuild going much faster than Detroit's unless it was built on massive lottery luck.
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Imo it’s not about lottery luck. It’s about Yzerman not being able to get an elite #1 D and an elite #1 C. I think Seider is a very good #2 and so is Larkin. But Yzerman needs to do like Vegas and (either through trade or free agency) get guys like Pietrangelo and Eichel: true number ones.
 
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Fatass said:
Imo it’s not about lottery luck. It’s about Yzerman not being able to get an elite #1 D and an elite #1 C. I think Seider is a very good #2 and so is Larkin. But Yzerman needs to do like Vegas and (either through trade or free agency) get guys like Pietrangelo and Eichel: true number ones.
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Vegas is a popular destination for free agents. Nobody wants to play in Detroit anymore. This isn't the 90's.
 
Fatass said:
Imo it’s not about lottery luck. It’s about Yzerman not being able to get an elite #1 D and an elite #1 C. I think Seider is a very good #2 and so is Larkin. But Yzerman needs to do like Vegas and (either through trade or free agency) get guys like Pietrangelo and Eichel: true number ones.
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...gotta disagree on Seider, that kid is a true #1D...he's just not flashy about it...
 
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GMR said:
Vegas is a popular destination for free agents. Nobody wants to play in Detroit anymore. This isn't the 90's.
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As an oiler fan who suffered a hillariousl awful rebuild... When you start winning, the players want to come. We were on every NMC for a decade, now guys want to come and it isn't as bad. Still not Florida, Dallas or Vegas good but the winning is the key.
 
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Sometimes I wonder if that really is the reason why we always seem to get mostly bad free agents. We have to overpay even when they are from Michigan.

Or is it my Yzerman defense mechanism!
 
Fatass said:
Imo it’s not about lottery luck. It’s about Yzerman not being able to get an elite #1 D and an elite #1 C. I think Seider is a very good #2 and so is Larkin. But Yzerman needs to do like Vegas and (either through trade or free agency) get guys like Pietrangelo and Eichel: true number ones.
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so tired of this narrative. you don't need the best players, you need the right players. kinda like the first time vegas made the finals with a bunch of second line, second pairing cast-offs from other teams
 
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Steve Yzerman is not a good GM but he's Steve Yzerman and It's Detroit so he's not going to get fired.

Any other GM in any other sport would be fired by now because it should NEVER take this long to rebuild a franchise, not if you do it right.

But again It's Steve Yzerman and It's Detroit nobody is going to fire a top 2 Red Wing of all time It's not going to happen.
 
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Pluses and minuses on the ledger so far for the GM. I would grade his effort as a B. The team is trending up but besides drafting well in the first round he hasn't really pulled a rabbit out of the hat otherwise. Bad lottery luck is cited but he found players that pretty much matched what would have been their natural draft position in any redraft.

The biggest disconnect that I see is his (or his supporters) avowed strategy for creating a team that is hard to play against. I don't see that thread running through what is on the ice presently. While Seider can be physical and Ed and MK are "gritty" I don't see a particularly tough team going forward. Their best prospects aren't trending that way either, Buch, ASP, ND etc.

Larkin and Kane did a lot of heavy lifting during their winning streaks, not sure if that will be the case when their "window" opens either.
 
There is still prospects from the 2019, 2020, and so on drafts that will likely see games. I know its not "sexy" because these players come up at the ages of 22, 23, 24 but Soderblom is an example of letting the kids learn the game, find a niche and eventually come in and be ready. Soderblom may not be a game breaker but he should be a very useful player.

Guys like Tuomisto, Wallinder, Hanas, Buium, Mazur all still are yet to get their chance. Again none may be guys that put you over the hump but they need to replace guys like Motte, Holl, Petry, Fischer and such.. if they raise the talent level of the bottom pairings, bottom 6 guys it will only push the ceiling of the team next year and in the future. Throw in Cossa, Augustine replacing Mrazek, Talbot, Lyon... hard not see them improving. Obviously a fraction of those guys end up sticking but there is still a TBD aspect of Yzerman's early drafts because the team has not thrown kids into the fire immediately.

Also we have Brady Cleveland so.... watch out!
 
LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
Steve Yzerman is not a good GM but he's Steve Yzerman and It's Detroit so he's not going to get fired.

Any other GM in any other sport would be fired by now because it should NEVER take this long to rebuild a franchise, not if you do it right.

But again It's Steve Yzerman and It's Detroit nobody is going to fire a top 2 Red Wing of all time It's not going to happen.
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No they wouldn't. Teams don't fire GMs left and right so often. Coaches maybe but not GMs.

But you're right that Detroit will probably never fire Yzerman. He'll have to step down voluntarily before that happens.
 
GMR said:
No they wouldn't. Teams don't fire GMs left and right so often. Coaches maybe but not GMs.

But you're right that Detroit will probably never fire Yzerman. He'll have to step down voluntarily before that happens.
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Nah I think ANY GM, in ANY sport that was about to miss the playoffs for the 6th straight year would be fired.

I know they have more job security but It's not THAT much more.
 
LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
Nah I think ANY GM, in ANY sport that was about to miss the playoffs for the 6th straight year would be fired.

I know they have more job security but It's not THAT much more.
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Yzerman has rebuilt the foundation of an organization that was completely barren. He's drafted at an high level. It's frustrating how long it's taking but he's set us up for long term success. I think it's foolish to fire him at this point. I dont care about squeking into the playoffs just for the sake of making the playoffs. That's what got the Wings in a terrible position under Holland.
 
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