Detroit Redwings Downfall

[NyQuil]

Which team will they bump out of the playoffs next year?

People had been waiting for Boston to fall out for a while, but it looks like Ottawa is the team taking their spot.

Who will be the faller next year if you think Detroit is getting in?

For this year maybe.

Prognosticating that Ottawa is a perennial playoff team because they are currently in a wild card spot after missing the playoffs for 7 years is pretty bold.

 

[13to40]

View attachment 994880

Looks like a clearly defined top 4 when everyone is healthy to me. Top 4D tend to average 20 a night or more? But okay, so your top 4 this season using TOI (which is not how that's done) is:

View attachment 994883

Doing favors for our Detroit Associated friends, paying teams to take good D (Walman) that turn into first round picks.. I'd say these are valid concerns of your GM. Grier did a wonderful GM job with Walman.

And glad you agree that Hronek is not an ASP replacement. That has been my point the whole time.

It’s not officially documented anywhere, but the rumbling that came from the Walman trade was nothing but positive from the locker room and coaching staff.

Not sure what he did to be so hated, but he somehow managed to become a cancer in the locker room. Maybe he stole Larkin’s cheerios one morning, who knows.

I liked him on the wings, thought he was fun to watch with his cheeky gritty celebration, but when I heard from an ex-wings player in the offseason who was apart of the team that somebody (who he couldn’t name) that played on the blue line really caused lockeroom issues in the midst of the playoff run, I knew right away who it was when the trade had happened.

Good for San Jose on capitalizing on the opportunity. That organization made out like bandits in that trade. Turned one times problem into gold.

Am I concerned about the move the GM made to keep the locker room and coaching staff happy? No not at all. It was a hard decision, but he was traded for futures for a reason. That reason is to remind the locker room that no one man is greater than the team.

Also, I don’t think Detroit would have ever been able to receive a first rounder for Walman in the series of any events anyways. So at the end of the day even neglecting the fact that he was potentially a big problem in the room, it’s not as bad as some make it out to be.

 

[RedHawkDown]

The Hronek thing has been beat to death but it seems like nobody believes us. Look, I’m sure my fellow wings fans will tell you I’m one of the Yzerman doomers on the wings board and I’m not a fan of his work overall. But the Hronek trade was seen as fantastic at the time it happened by pretty much every wings fan for a reason - he was not at all the player he’s been in Vancouver in Detroit. Could he have become that? We don’t know. Maybe it took playing with a Hart level defenseman in Hughes to unlock that potential in him, who knows. But if Yzerman gave 7M to the guy Hronek was in Detroit, I would have been furious. We are very happy with the 1st and the fact that it turned into ASP who is looking phenomenal is a gigantic cherry on top.

I don’t like Yzermans trades and generally think he’s extremely overhyped, but it’s possible for a trade to be a win-win. This was one of those trades. I’m glad Hronek is doing well in Vancouver and I don’t want him back.

Go look for yourself, the vast majority of people saying they don’t get why Canucks did this and that it seems expensive: Confirmed Trade: - [VAN/DET] Filip Hronek and 2023 4th round pick for 2023 NYI 1st round pick and 2023 2nd round pick

 

[Just Linda]

For this year maybe.

Prognosticating that Ottawa is a perennial playoff team because they are currently in a wild card spot after missing the playoffs for 7 years is pretty bold.

Its weird arguing for the Senators with a Sens fan but I'll bite :p


They have to replace Giroux, they have to add a top 4 dman, they have to add a back-up goalie. They'll have just over 20 million to do that.

Im not too worried about the Sens moving forward. I don't think ceiling is too high due to their RD situation + lack of secondary scoring but I think aggressive free agency will get them to be a decade of early playoff exits.

 

[Czechboy]

Walman was not a good D or least not one good enough you deal with what ever the other issues that were present. Every team does favors. Have you just started watching sports?

every team does favors? this is common practice in professional sports? Can you give me some other recent NHL examples?

 

[brentashton]

every team does favors? this is common practice in professional sports? Can you give me some other recent NHL examples?

A basic one is the concept of deals with future considerations aspects. Most are left unfulfilled forever.

 

[dekelikekocur]

every team does favors? this is common practice in professional sports? Can you give me some other recent NHL examples?

Every change of scenery trade pretty much, every time a player is signed for a 1d or whatever "retire" contract so they can retire from a specific team. Players being released from contracts so they can pursue a contract somewhere else because they couldn't meet expectation?

 

[wingerdinger]

Which team will they bump out of the playoffs next year?

People had been waiting for Boston to fall out for a while, but it looks like Ottawa is the team taking their spot.

Who will be the faller next year if you think Detroit is getting in?

Whoever the 2nd wild card team is/ say new jersey has a down year lots of unforseen things may happen.

 

[wingerdinger]

The Hronek thing has been beat to death but it seems like nobody believes us. Look, I’m sure my fellow wings fans will tell you I’m one of the Yzerman doomers on the wings board and I’m not a fan of his work overall. But the Hronek trade was seen as fantastic at the time it happened by pretty much every wings fan for a reason - he was not at all the player he’s been in Vancouver in Detroit. Could he have become that? We don’t know. Maybe it took playing with a Hart level defenseman in Hughes to unlock that potential in him, who knows. But if Yzerman gave 7M to the guy Hronek was in Detroit, I would have been furious. We are very happy with the 1st and the fact that it turned into ASP who is looking phenomenal is a gigantic cherry on top.

I don’t like Yzermans trades and generally think he’s extremely overhyped, but it’s possible for a trade to be a win-win. This was one of those trades. I’m glad Hronek is doing well in Vancouver and I don’t want him back.

Go look for yourself, the vast majority of people saying they don’t get why Canucks did this and that it seems expensive: Confirmed Trade: - [VAN/DET] Filip Hronek and 2023 4th round pick for 2023 NYI 1st round pick and 2023 2nd round pick

I always thought the wing board had a weird distaste for Hronek.

 

[dgibb10]

Its weird arguing for the Senators with a Sens fan but I'll bite :p


They have to replace Giroux, they have to add a top 4 dman, they have to add a back-up goalie. They'll have just over 20 million to do that.

Im not too worried about the Sens moving forward. I don't think ceiling is too high due to their RD situation + lack of secondary scoring but I think aggressive free agency will get them to be a decade of early playoff exits.

The sens have 18.44 mill in cap space to fill 10 spots next year.

4 forwards, 2 dmen, 1 G, 3 scratches.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I always thought the wing board had a weird distaste for Hronek.

It’s not weird. He sucked here. Is not that deep

 

[Czechboy]

Every change of scenery trade pretty much, every time a player is signed for a 1d or whatever "retire" contract so they can retire from a specific team. Players being released from contracts so they can pursue a contract somewhere else because they couldn't meet expectation?

So no examples of anything similar. Remember, a 2nd rounder was included. Then the player was flipped for a first rounder. Grier got a 1st rounder, a 3/4 season of Walman and a 2nd rounder for absolutely nothing. That is spectacular GMing for a rebuilding team. Giving away players with value (whether you like him or not, he just netted a 1st round pick and clearly had value) and picks is the exact opposite of that.

 

[BKarchitect]

I’ve felt for the majority of this thread that people are blowing things way out of proportion…but I think as a neutral watching them tonight…things are starting to feel more than a bit stinky.

There’s young talent for sure and prospects on the way but something about the overall construct to this team and lack of leadership and grit and lack of ability to “turn the corner” is giving me Sabres situation vibes, despite the talent of the youth on paper. What you don’t want is to bring all these young guys up in a poor environment…Edvinsson for example…pretty bad tonight. Could just be an off game for a really talented young player who for the most part has been very good this year, but when poor decision making and effort start to become systemic, it’s a worrying situation.

I think the core is still very promising - but at some point Yzerman has to stop with the multi-year deals to middling vets and the assumption that the “youth wave” is just going to win the day eventually, and do something bolder. Otherwise this franchise is going to remain stuck, I fear.

It’s going to be a make-or-break summer in Detroit IMO.

 

[Czechboy]

I still think Wing's can make it. But if your argument is that the Koala is the key and how great they've been and he should have been hired earlier.. well, he's also coached them to this record in the last 10.

I didn't think it was possible to be worse than my Oilers since the 4 nations ended:

 

[wingerdinger]

It’s not weird. He sucked here. Is not that deep

He was surrounded by a terrible team. He did not suck.

 

[TKB]

Players brought in as favors, the GM's brother in charge of pro scouting. Is Detroit an old boys club these days?

The Red WIngs have not had anyone designated as head of pro scouting since Mark Howe retired in 2021.

 

[RedHawkDown]

He was surrounded by a terrible team. He did not suck.

I watched almost all of his games in the NHL in Detroit. He sucked.

 

[wingerdinger]

I watched almost all of his games in the NHL in Detroit. He sucked.

so did i lol

 

[Pavels Dog]

I'm glad he's gone. I get the argument but I do see 4 guys in their 20's with good contracts. I also see an affordable core that is much better than what you have today with Petry, Holl and Chariot (who are not inexpensive or young and IMO not that good anymore).

Hronek is at 7 mill and he's 27
Seider is at 8.5 and 23
Ed is 22 and at 1
Walman is 29 and 3.4

Your current top 4 (by TOI) is not much cheaper to my eye and definitely not better.

Ed is 1
Seider is 8.5
Petry is 2.5
Chariot is 4.75

20 mill vs 15 million roughly And you got Holl and Gustaffson eating up another 6 million in your bottom pairs. Yzerman replaced NHL d in their 20's with past their prime D's in their 30's.

I won't lie, I'd trade Nurse, Bouch, Ek and Emberson/Stecher for that in a heartbeat and my team is not in a rebuild.lol

But, again, I'm thrilled Hronek is gone. Yzerman took a step backwards IMO on the D. I do think you'd be a playoff team with that D and I do think that D would've been the difference in making playoffs last season too! And it is okay to have good players in the NHL and good players in development. If Seth Jones can be traded then Hronek at 7 mill down the road can too!

Nothing you said really adressed the point. The trade wasn't about last season or this season. It's about going forward. Edvinsson won't be on an ELC forever and if you don't view Detroit with Walman+Hronek as a cup contender last season or this season then what would really be the point? Losing 1st round isn't the end goal of the rebuild. You can disagree with the strategy, but Yzerman is looking at the long term, not desperately trying to make the playoffs once.

Which team will they bump out of the playoffs next year?

People had been waiting for Boston to fall out for a while, but it looks like Ottawa is the team taking their spot.

Who will be the faller next year if you think Detroit is getting in?

Ottawa and Montreal currently hold the wildcards and I'd challenge anyone who views them as perennial playoff locks because they're in at the 67 game mark this season.

Looking higher up, New Jersey's not too far from being involved in the wildcard battle. In the end, things will change at some point. What if Ottawa takes another step and becomes a 100+ point team and pushes Tampa or Toronto down the standings?

 

[TRASHCAT]

They looked like they were sleepwalking towards the playoffs last night. Well until they totally collapsed

 

[Pavels Dog]

There’s young talent for sure and prospects on the way but something about the overall construct to this team and lack of leadership and grit and lack of ability to “turn the corner” is giving me Sabres situation vibes, despite the talent of the youth on paper. What you don’t want is to bring all these young guys up in a poor environment…Edvinsson for example…pretty bad tonight. Could just be an off game for a really talented young player who for the most part has been very good this year, but when poor decision making and effort start to become systemic, it’s a worrying situation.

Idk, I see none of the rot or systematic problems of a Sabres situation.
For the most part the players the team is building around are performing up to expectations or more. Detroit loses far more games because of one of the league's worst 3rd pairings than they do because rookie Edvinsson has an off night.

I think the core is still very promising - but at some point Yzerman has to stop with the multi-year deals to middling vets and the assumption that the “youth wave” is just going to win the day eventually, and do something bolder. Otherwise this franchise is going to remain stuck, I fear.

I think that's why he was conservative last summer. Probably could have re-signed Gostisbehere/Perron if he was willing to give them term, might have been able to land Stamkos, might have been in on Roy. He just didn't seem interested in going mid-to-long term on those kinds of players.

What do they have now?

Compher 3 more years.
Copp 2 more years.
Tarasenko 1 more year.
Chiarot, Holl, Gustafsson 1 more year.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Maybe in 3-4 more years boys

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

View attachment 994880

Looks like a clearly defined top 4 when everyone is healthy to me. Top 4D tend to average 20 a night or more? But okay, so your top 4 this season using TOI (which is not how that's done) is:

View attachment 994883

Doing favors for our Detroit Associated friends, paying teams to take good D (Walman) that turn into first round picks.. I'd say these are valid concerns of your GM. Grier did a wonderful GM job with Walman.

And glad you agree that Hronek is not an ASP replacement. That has been my point the whole time.

I mean if you just asked instead of stat watched you'd know that the clear top four since Todd took over has been Chiarot/Seider and Edvinsson/AlJo.

Gustafsson is hot garbage.

 

[saska sault]

I may not speak for the majority of Wings fans but this season is shaking down pretty much how it was predicted. Playing meaningful games down the stretch, close to the final wild card... unfortunately looking more likely they will miss as each game passes.

The positives - Core guys all look good, and signed to to nice deals for the most part. Larkin and Raymond have been more cold than hot since 4 nations, but that should not be an excuse. Other teams had their top guys at the same tournament. Edvinsson & Johansson look legit, Ed like a guy who will run his own top 4 pairing and AlJo as a real nice partner/low maintenance guy. Kasper looks like a gem and great value for where they ended up in that draft. The way he has played the second half of the season between the top line and now playing middle between Kane & Debrincat is encouraging. His tenacity and skill are both equal parts of what makes him effective.

Negatives - Bottom 6 is garbage and some of those guys need to play up the line up. Half the defense is also garbage although I personally do not mind Chiarot the majority of games. He is far from the problem that Gus, Holl, Petry have been. Goaltending has been hit or miss second half of the season but thanfully... no one is signed long term. Mrazek is always going to be hot & cold but after July 1st having him & Talbot signed to for 1 year may be the lesser of all the evils available of the goaltending market.

End of the day... Larkin, Raymond, Seider are all signed to nice long term deals. Cap flexibility for future years and they own all their own picks going forward. Likely this is finally the off season that most fans (or outside watchers) have been waiting for. Yzerman will get aggressive, he gave McLellan time to evaluate the roster and what guys can work and what guys need to be moved on from. Should have 22-23? million to work with in the off season without any other potential moves.. lots of flexibility to cut the fat off the team & improve.

Is it flashy and sexy? Nope. But progression has been steady and constantly moving forward so its going the right direction. This season seems lateral but the fact the young guys have stepped up and they have not sunk in the standings is enough to show the ship is still going in the right direction, for me anyways. The future of the team is not the current problem, its the place holders. Yzerman has not done a good job of finding guys that can produce results in those spots. Its strange to say but the Copp signing isn't looking too bad these days, the team sorely misses him and Compher has not been able to reproduce what he brought to the table so far to finish this season.

I am sure someone is going to tell me that is not good enough, the core is flawed, the Yzerplan gets too much of a free pass, drafting 10-15 is a trap you get stuck in for eternity, etc. , etc.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I may not speak for the majority of Wings fans but this season is shaking down pretty much how it was predicted. Playing meaningful games down the stretch, close to the final wild card... unfortunately looking more likely they will miss as each game passes.

We're about where I expected us to be, I just didn't expect it to play out this way. People who thought we were a shoo-in for playoffs because of progression were kidding themselves. This team greatly overachieved last year.

After Lalonde's shit run this year I figured we were screwed. Todd came in and we surged, which I didn't expect, and it's got us right about where I figured we'd be.

If there's encouragement, it's that guys like Edvinsson, Johansson, and Kasper have jumped to the NHL and shown that they're impact players.