Detroit Redwings Downfall

Lampedampe

Registered User
Feb 26, 2015
2,432
1,091
If you don't understand what a game breaking talent looks like that says a lot about why you think Detroit is on the right track. Feel free to check some of the top prospects playing at the WJC, or some of the young forward talent the has joined the NHL recently.

Okay let's take a step back then, this started with me saying "list some special prospects".

Forgive me for being unclear when I in my later post asked for a definition, I was actually asking for an example of a, in your words, special prospect.

Do you wanna give me one? Preferably 2, but I'd settle for 1.
 

Luigi Lemieux

Registered User
Sep 26, 2003
22,601
11,894
Okay let's take a step back then, this started with me saying "list some special prospects".

Forgive me for being unclear when I in my later post asked for a definition, I was actually asking for an example of a, in your words, special prospect.

Do you wanna give me one? Preferably 2, but I'd settle for 1.
Since you asked nicely sure. I won't even pick obvious guys like Bedard or Celebrini.

Let's say guys like Gabe Perreault, Berkley Catton, Ivan Demidov, Ryan Leonard. Players with significant offensive potential.

Coming up in this draft would be Martone, Misa, or Hagens. Even a single one of those makes Detroit's group look better because right now i just see a bunch of support or complementary guys.

As of now it looks like it'll take ten years to build the 2010s Nashville predators or Minnesota wild.
 
Last edited:

Lampedampe

Registered User
Feb 26, 2015
2,432
1,091
Since you asked nicely sure. I won't even pick obvious guys like Bedard or Celebrini.

Let's say guys like Gabe Perreault, Berkley Catton, Ivan Demidov, Ryan Leonard. Players with significant offensive potential.

Coming up in this draft would be Martone, Misa, or Hagens. Even a single one of those makes Detroit's group look better because right now i just see a bunch of support or complementary guys.

As of now it looks like it'll take ten years to build the 2010s Nashville predators or Minnesota wild.

In terms of game breaking offensive potential I'd say it's a good list. I probably would remove Leonard, otherwise I agree.

And there are no such talents waiting in the wings, for the Wings right now. What I'd like to point out though is that only Perreault was missed by Yzerman. On top of that I'd say that if that is your definition of special player then I'm happy that Wings have atleast one.

Have a good night.
 

SlapJack

Scum bag Sens
Dec 6, 2010
2,008
1,308
Detroit had to do a full rebuild and maybe some of the decisions Yzerman has made aren't the best. But there has never been a GM that has a flawless track record for every decision they make, and there have been other circumstances affecting their draft picks like never improving their position and who is actually available in those drafts by the time they get to the podium. You can have a top 5 pick in a weak draft that's less valuable than a top 15 pick in a deep draft.

Tampa was built from the back end out. They got Hedman and Vasy early on, then added Sergachev and McDonagh by trades made possible by good draft capital acquired along the way. Of course getting guys like Kucherov, Point, and Cirelli with 2nd/3rd picks were essential as well, and they did have Stamkos and Killorn before all this, but they do say defense wins championships for a reason. No they don't win without Point and Kucherov, but they weren't winning without Vasy and Hedman either.

Yzerman has taken 2 studs so far on the blue line with Seider and Edvinsson, then added Cossa in the hopes he can be their #1G for a decade. The first round forwards they acquired will be very good soon, Raymond is already, but the key will be how good the back end is 2-3 years from now. If they get the slightest bit of luck in the next few drafts where a surprise star falls to them, or one of their post first rounders becomes special, they'll be a really good team.

I did not agree with the signings made in the last 2 years, but I can see the rationale behind them. You can't throw out all your youth and allow them to get beaten down with few experienced NHLers to help soften the blows. I think the quantity of guys he acquired was the biggest problem; it's ok to have a few contracts that are not ideal value for money, however they added like a half dozen veterans who are underperforming. Again, it was another product of circumstance where they felt the playoffs were achievable and decided to acquire stability, but getting bottom half in the lineup players through free agency is EXPENSIVE and with older guys there's a far greater risk of a significant drop off in production.

It looks like shit right now because things aren't going to plan. How many times have we seen a team be absolutely dismissed because of a shit season or 2, but then boom they pop off and are competitors? Detroit will have those not so great contracts off the books in no time, and it's a hockey town that can attract free agents better than other division rivals like Ottawa and Buffalo.

He's not doing a shit job but if you're not winning, everything you do will be heavily scrutinized and this is a really bad stretch right now. Should they get a couple of high impact forwards in the next 2 drafts, and manage to make a few quality free agent signings or trades to fill out the roster, they'll be good. And it's also entirely possible that they don't get any luck over the next few years and continue being a bubble team.

These are the perils of being an NHL GM - you can make the best decisions at the time in the moment, but factors out of your control can torpedo those choices in a hurry. Or you can be absolutely incompetent, but have good luck that covers your miscues and misfortune i.e Pierre Dorian. Ottawa has been just as unfortunate In the draft lottery, but the Karlsson trade and subsequent collapse of the Sharks followed by a lottery win got them Stützle. Which also required 2 other teams passing on him. They finished 2nd last in 2018, dropped to 4th but lucked into Tkachuk being available. If San Jose does not move up in the lottery and Montreal picks Tkachuk, Ottawa might have been rocking Zadina and maybe Holtz or Quinn in place of those guys instead. If that happened, the Senators would be in a Buffalo state of being right now. Maybe Andlauer doesn't buy the team or Ullmark refuses to be traded here because the team will not contend anytime soon.

You could say that Yzerman has been frustrated hitting a few posts in a tight game, whereas Dorian took a few shots that were going to miss by a foot, but scored anyway after a deflection off the other teams D's butt.
 

TKB

Registered User
Jun 12, 2010
1,262
598
Chicago
Detroit had to do a full rebuild and maybe some of the decisions Yzerman has made aren't the best. But there has never been a GM that has a flawless track record for every decision they make, and there have been other circumstances affecting their draft picks like never improving their position and who is actually available in those drafts by the time they get to the podium. You can have a top 5 pick in a weak draft that's less valuable than a top 15 pick in a deep draft.

Tampa was built from the back end out. They got Hedman and Vasy early on, then added Sergachev and McDonagh by trades made possible by good draft capital acquired along the way. Of course getting guys like Kucherov, Point, and Cirelli with 2nd/3rd picks were essential as well, and they did have Stamkos and Killorn before all this, but they do say defense wins championships for a reason. No they don't win without Point and Kucherov, but they weren't winning without Vasy and Hedman either.

Yzerman has taken 2 studs so far on the blue line with Seider and Edvinsson, then added Cossa in the hopes he can be their #1G for a decade. The first round forwards they acquired will be very good soon, Raymond is already, but the key will be how good the back end is 2-3 years from now. If they get the slightest bit of luck in the next few drafts where a surprise star falls to them, or one of their post first rounders becomes special, they'll be a really good team.

I did not agree with the signings made in the last 2 years, but I can see the rationale behind them. You can't throw out all your youth and allow them to get beaten down with few experienced NHLers to help soften the blows. I think the quantity of guys he acquired was the biggest problem; it's ok to have a few contracts that are not ideal value for money, however they added like a half dozen veterans who are underperforming. Again, it was another product of circumstance where they felt the playoffs were achievable and decided to acquire stability, but getting bottom half in the lineup players through free agency is EXPENSIVE and with older guys there's a far greater risk of a significant drop off in production.

It looks like shit right now because things aren't going to plan. How many times have we seen a team be absolutely dismissed because of a shit season or 2, but then boom they pop off and are competitors? Detroit will have those not so great contracts off the books in no time, and it's a hockey town that can attract free agents better than other division rivals like Ottawa and Buffalo.

He's not doing a shit job but if you're not winning, everything you do will be heavily scrutinized and this is a really bad stretch right now. Should they get a couple of high impact forwards in the next 2 drafts, and manage to make a few quality free agent signings or trades to fill out the roster, they'll be good. And it's also entirely possible that they don't get any luck over the next few years and continue being a bubble team.

These are the perils of being an NHL GM - you can make the best decisions at the time in the moment, but factors out of your control can torpedo those choices in a hurry. Or you can be absolutely incompetent, but have good luck that covers your miscues and misfortune i.e Pierre Dorian. Ottawa has been just as unfortunate In the draft lottery, but the Karlsson trade and subsequent collapse of the Sharks followed by a lottery win got them Stützle. Which also required 2 other teams passing on him. They finished 2nd last in 2018, dropped to 4th but lucked into Tkachuk being available. If San Jose does not move up in the lottery and Montreal picks Tkachuk, Ottawa might have been rocking Zadina and maybe Holtz or Quinn in place of those guys instead. If that happened, the Senators would be in a Buffalo state of being right now. Maybe Andlauer doesn't buy the team or Ullmark refuses to be traded here because the team will not contend anytime soon.

You could say that Yzerman has been frustrated hitting a few posts in a tight game, whereas Dorian took a few shots that were going to miss by a foot, but scored anyway after a deflection off the other teams D's butt.

Someone who gets it.

Refreshing for this thread.
 

OccidentalOctopus

Garbage Poster
May 31, 2023
45
41
The Trash
Did you really expect anything else? The same people mouthing off and laughing at the expense of the Wings now, tend to be the same guys crying themselves to sleep when their own team fails time after time. The only bright spot in their day appears to be "getting back" at a team that used to beat them regularily but for now doesn't

From HF? Not really, no. The hate boner some here have for the Wings is odd.

More like

Hey the Wings aren't on track -> Yes they are -> Detroit spins wheels or regresses -> repeat

So you're proving my point? Gotcha.
 
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Dr Quincy

Registered User
Jun 19, 2005
29,452
11,880
Detroit has so much internal progression that they can bank on. All of their cornerstone pieces have another gear.

If they don’t draft or make another trade they will get better every year solely on development alone.


Things hardly ever work that way. In fact, this year's Red Wings show that. It's a HF myth that every young player starts off as a rookie and gets better every single year until they are 30 and then decline every single year after that.

Detroit will get better when they get better players. They won't get better just by some automatic level up because a 23 year old turns 24.
 

ZachaFlockaFlame

Registered User
Aug 24, 2020
16,449
22,250
The 23-24 Wings remind me of the 17-18 Devils a bit, a team that had no business being a playoff team at the bubble. It took the Devils a few more years to get their shit together, it'll probably be similar to Detroit. I think they'll be fine long term but just pray for some lottery luck to land that elite forward.
 

Akrapovince

Registered User
May 19, 2017
3,911
4,457
Things hardly ever work that way. In fact, this year's Red Wings show that. It's a HF myth that every young player starts off as a rookie and gets better every single year until they are 30 and then decline every single year after that.

Detroit will get better when they get better players. They won't get better just by some automatic level up because a 23 year old turns 24.
The point is that they still have promotions from within that we can account for improvement as well. I think it’s safe to say players like Kasper, ASP, Cossa, Edvinsson, etc has a good chance to fill some needs. That will improve the team.

Yes they have to make team building moves, but the thing is help is on the way. It’s coming. They still need to reap what they sow.
 
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Dr Quincy

Registered User
Jun 19, 2005
29,452
11,880
The point is that they still have promotions from within that we can account for improvement as well. I think it’s safe to say players like Kasper, ASP, Cossa, Edvinsson, etc has a good chance to fill some needs. That will improve the team.

Yes they have to make team building moves, but the thing is help is on the way. It’s coming. They still need to reap what they sow.
Again, if that were true, Buffalo would have made the playoffs 5 years ago. Detroit has some really good prospects. Whether that translates to team success is still completely unknown.
 

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