Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Pavels Dog]

Basically the Yzerplan is to sit and wait for the draft to turn his fortunes around while he signs fringe veterans to supplement the roster in the mean time. It's an awful plan.

Building through the draft is the only consistently successful plan in the NHL.

Once a viable core is in place expect him to be more aggressive with trades and FAs.

 

[FMichael]

I'm a neutral fan and see the problem as clearly being Uncle Fester.

Detroit is 31st in shots and 27th in shots against. Numerous marquee players (Compher, Kane, Tarasenko, etc.) are simultaneously having down years. We know their roster isn't loaded, but they aren't this bad.

Indeed - my thoughts exactly.

While by no means is this current roster guaranteed a playoff spot - it has been a carryover from last season of indifference and underperforming from players who are more capable.

Not sure who is/was more inept - Lalonde or Blashill…If there’s anything I find alarming with Yzerman is wtf is he thinking keeping Fester around when clearly he’s more of a hindrance than a help.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

I just find it amusing how patient people seem to be with the Yzerplan when they have nothing concrete to show for it so far. They are closer to the bottom than the top right now, as they have been since he got there.

The time for patience for most fans is through. It's a major issue that Yzerman is approaching the midway point of his 6th year on the job and this team, unless something big changes, will still not be in the playoffs.

Miss me with that whole kicking the can down the road "but they're not there yet, wait 2-3 more years for the kids" garbage. It's Year 6.

If I'm Larkin, I'd be telling Yzerman to start making legitimate moves to surround me with real talent while I'm still in my prime, and that I sure as hell didn't sign an 8-year contract for to only start being a playoff team by the time it's well over halfway completed.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

The time for patience for most fans is through. It's a major issue that Yzerman is approaching the midway point of his 6th year on the job and this team, unless something big changes, will still not be in the playoffs.

Miss me with that whole kicking the can down the road "but they're not there yet, wait 2-3 more years for the kids" garbage. It's Year 6.

If I'm Larkin, I'd be telling Yzerman to start making legitimate moves to surround me with real talent while I'm still in my prime, and that I sure as hell didn't sign an 8-year contract for to only start being a playoff team by the time it's well over halfway completed.

Pretty sure that would be met with, "We can trade you if you like", but good strategy.

 

[TooManyHumans]

The time for patience for most fans is through. It's a major issue that Yzerman is nearly the midway point of his 6th year on the job and this team, unless something big changes, will still not be a playoff team.

Miss me with that whole kicking the can down the road "but they're not there yet, wait 2-3 more years for the kids" garbage. It's Year 6.

If I'm Larkin, I'd be telling Yzerman to start making legitimate moves to surround me with real talent while I'm still in my prime, and that I sure as hell didn't sign an 8-year contract for to only start being a playoff team by the time it's well over halfway completed.

I would be there as well if I were a Wings fan. Honestly, as a Pirates fan it reminds me of the current Pirates front office. They have put absolutely no priority on actually winning MLB games and yet the owners are fine with their "process" and are keeping them for another year where they will inevitably fall flat on their faces. At some point the team needs to try to actually win games. The Wings are on pace for mid-70s points in the 6th year. I would find that not good enough if I were a Wings fan, no matter how much the "process" seems right.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Pretty sure that would be met with, "We can trade you if you like", but good strategy.

Would you blame him for eventually getting fed up and asking out if Yzerman isn't going to make winning a priority during his prime? I sure wouldn't.

Do you think Yzerman sold Larkin on signing an eight-year contract with "Sorry, we still need to wait for the kids to develop, we can't think about the playoffs until 2026"?

Go look back at Larkin's postgame interview after Game 82 last season when he looked as though his guts were just ripped out, and tell me you're fine with Yzerman telling him that the playoffs still aren't a realistic option for another 2-3 years.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Do you think Yzerman sold Larkin on signing an eight-year contract with "Sorry, we still need to wait for the kids to develop, we can't think about the playoffs until 2026"?

Guessing he met him with, "How would you like $70M to play at home?"

 

[Pavels Dog]

At some point the team needs to try to actually win games. The Wings are on pace for mid-70s points in the 6th year. I would find that not good enough if I were a Wings fan, no matter how much the "process" seems right.

They missed the playoffs by less than a point last year. Can we stop pretending they’ve been a 50 point team every year?
No, they’ve not had a good start. Yes, questions surrounding a coaching change are fair. However, they’re a good week away from being right in the mix again.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Go look back at Larkin's postgame interview after Game 82 last season when he looked as though his guts were just ripped out, and tell me you're fine with Yzerman telling him that the playoffs still aren't a realistic option for another 2-3 years.

How about I go back to Larkin's TDL interview in 2023 where he was literally crying over Bert and Hronek getting traded... And yet he still signed an 8 year contract.

But yes, THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

 

[SirloinUB]

So NJ calls out players when they’re bad but most Wings fans think everything is going fine in Detroit. Seems like the former fanbase is more reasonable!

Basically the Yzerplan is to sit and wait for the draft to turn his fortunes around while he signs fringe veterans to supplement the roster in the mean time. It's an awful plan.

Needs to be making more trades as well as targeting better players in free agency. The draft can't solve all these problems.

I've seen excuse after excuse for his vision. Like the Red Wings aren't scoring because Tarasenko has been disappointing; But pretty much every poster on here knew it was a bad signing as Tarasenko has regressed hard and looked good only in a 4th line role for the Panthers last year. Could basically go over every single signing there's not a single impressive transaction. I really don't know how that's defensible but we have some Wings fans in here propping up this weak ass plan.

Reading posts like these and many others speaks to how uninformed the average fan truly is.

The reality is that a long rebuild was anticipated because of how deep of a hole Holland left behind.

“Yzerman needs to make more trades” they say while ignoring the fact he traded hronek Mantha bertuzzi which landed them Cossa, ASP and Debrincat. All of these moves are/project to be upgrades to the long term trajectory.

Red Wings fans understand that “everything is fine” because they understand it was always intended to be a deep rebuild. With that in mind 60% of yzermans draft picks are 21 or younger and even his oldest draft picks are yet to reach their prime.

The team is on the right track but more patience is necessary. Ya’ll are expecting him to turn water into wine but forget the best wines age for years before you enjoy them.

 

[Albatros]

Would you blame him for eventually getting fed up and asking out if Yzerman isn't going to make winning a priority during his prime? I sure wouldn't.

Do you think Yzerman sold Larkin on signing an eight-year contract with "Sorry, we still need to wait for the kids to develop, we can't think about the playoffs until 2026"?

Go look back at Larkin's postgame interview after Game 82 last season when he looked as though his guts were just ripped out, and tell me you're fine with Yzerman telling him that the playoffs still aren't a realistic option for another 2-3 years.

It's not Yzerman that failed Larkin, but whoever drafted Evgeny Svechnikov, Cholowski, Rasmussen, Zadina, Veleno following him.

 

[TooManyHumans]

They missed the playoffs by less than a point last year. Can we stop pretending they’ve been a 50 point team every year?
No, they’ve not had a good start. Yes, questions surrounding a coaching change are fair. However, they’re a good week away from being right in the mix again.

The Penguins were a point out of making the playoffs the last two years. That is the mediocre middle I mentioned before and pretty much the worst place to be.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I would be there as well if I were a Wings fan. Honestly, as a Pirates fan it reminds me of the current Pirates front office. They have put absolutely no priority on actually winning MLB games and yet the owners are fine with their "process" and are keeping them for another year where they will inevitably fall flat on their faces. At some point the team needs to try to actually win games. The Wings are on pace for mid-70s points in the 6th year. I would find that not good enough if I were a Wings fan, no matter how much the "process" seems right.

Yes, Detroit fans can tell you does take time to rebuild when you hold onto your aging core players and repetitively sell your 1st and 2nd round picks trying desperately to continue to compete even after their window has closed.

... Do you see where I'm going with this, Penguins fan?

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

How about I go back to Larkin's TDL interview in 2023 where he was literally crying over Bert and Hronek getting traded... And yet he still signed an 8 year contract.

But yes, THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

In other words, you see no issue with the Red Wings still not being a playoff team by the midway point of year 6 under the tutelage of a supposed wizard of a GM.

That's your right. But it's also the right of Detroit's paying customers to say that this product isn't cutting it anymore and that they'd better start seeing a return on their investment, or the team no longer gets their money.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

It's not Yzerman that failed Larkin, but whoever drafted Evgeny Svechnikov, Cholowski, Rasmussen, Zadina, Veleno following him.

Nah man. Yzerman should've turned them into a contender in 3 years even in spite of starting with Anthony Mantha as his 2nd best player and Zadina and Veleno as his top prospects!

In other words, you see no issue with the Red Wings still not being a playoff team by the midway point of year 6 under the tutelage of a supposed wizard of a GM.

That's your right. But it's also the right of Detroit's paying customers to say that this product isn't cutting it anymore and that they'd better start seeing a return on their investment, or the team no longer gets their money.

Nobody's stopping you from not buying a ticket my guy.

By the way, what did any of this post have to do with your suggestion that Larkin could or should bail out? Weird how you abandoned ship on that as soon as his 2023 (Pre extension) interview was brought up.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

They missed the playoffs by less than a point last year. Can we stop pretending they’ve been a 50 point team every year?
No, they’ve not had a good start. Yes, questions surrounding a coaching change are fair. However, they’re a good week away from being right in the mix again.

They missed last season because they fell head-first into a woodchipper in March thanks to a startling inability to start games on time against bottom feeders like Arizona and Columbus.

Losing a 9-point lead from the cutoff point at the end of February thanks to multiple god-awful performances in must-win games should have been grounds for dismissal for Fester. I'm still stunned that not only was he brought back for this year, but that he's still somehow employed after the 0-2-1 road trip that included losses to the Ducks and Sharks.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

They missed last season because they fell head-first into a woodchipper in March thanks to a startling inability to start games on time against bottom feeders like Arizona and Columbus.

Losing a 9-point lead from the cutoff point at the end of February thanks to multiple god-awful performances in must-win games should have been grounds for dismissal for Fester. I'm still stunned that not only was he brought back for this year, but that he's still somehow employed after the 0-2-1 road trip that included losses to the Ducks and Sharks.

You're shocked that a team that didn't fire Blashill wont fire Lalonde?

Kinda sounds more like you just don't have a grasp on how the organization operates...

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Nah man. Yzerman should've turned them into a contender in 3 years even in spite of starting with Anthony Mantha as his 2nd best player and Zadina and Veleno as his top prospects!

Who said they needed to be contending by now? Nobody.

Being in the playoffs at the end of year 6 in a league where literally half the teams make it in should be the bare minimum expectation.

Nobody's stopping you from not buying a ticket my guy.

By the way, what did any of this post have to do with your suggestion that Larkin could or should bail out? Weird how you abandoned ship on that as soon as his 2023 (Pre extension) interview was brought up.

Larkin signed his extension on March 1. Bertuzzi was traded on March 2.

You're shocked that a team that didn't fire Blashill wont fire Lalonde?

Kinda sounds more like you just don't have a grasp on how the organization operates...

Actually, I have a solid grip on how they've operated of late. And unfortunately, it's to hang on to bad coaches for too long to the detriment of the team.

 

[Pavels Dog]

The Penguins were a point out of making the playoffs the last two years. That is the mediocre middle I mentioned before and pretty much the worst place to be.

Which would be a relevant comparison if Detroit’s U25 pipeline was as empty as Pittsburgh. As it stands, you’re comparing a crashing airplane with one lifting off because they happened to be at the same altitude.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Who said they needed to be contending by now? Nobody.

Being in the playoffs at the end of year 6 in a league where literally half the teams make it in should be the bare minimum expectation.

What part of Yzerman saying that he wasn't looking to simply make the playoffs wasn't clear to you? (But you have a solid grip on how they operate, right?)

Larkin signed his extension on March 1. Bertuzzi was traded on March 2.

It was painfully obvious to everyone (Except you and your solid grip, apparently) that Bert was looking for a lengthy deal and wasn't getting it from Yzerman. That trade came as a surprise to nobody. The Hronek one did.

Actually, I have a solid grip on how they've operated of late. And unfortunately, it's to hang on to bad coaches for too long to the detriment of the team.

So again, your surprise that he hasn't been fired, since you apparently have a "Solid grip on how they operate", is weird.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

I'm a neutral fan and see the problem as clearly being Uncle Fester.

Detroit is 31st in shots and 27th in shots against. Numerous marquee players (Compher, Kane, Tarasenko, etc.) are simultaneously having down years. We know their roster isn't loaded, but they aren't this bad.

There was a chance there would be some regression in regards to goal scoring they had a great shooting % last year. They have cut down GAA but give up a lot of shots I am not sure losing Maatta/Walman/Gostisbehere and replacing them with Johansson/Gustafsson is an upgrade. Edvinsson is in the lineup and will be good and it makes sense to play highly talented young players and get them to develop. Petry/Chiarot/Holl isn't helping either. Yes their roster isn't loaded but the overall roster isn't that great either.

 

[PanniniClaus]

What is clear by now is that Yzerman will get crap if he doesn't put youngsters on the roster, and that he absolutely, 100% will get crap if he does put youngsters on the roster.


I'd debate that.

New Jersey: essentially nothing outside the 1st round (and Holtz-Mercer-Mukhamadullin is a weeeeaaaaak result for 3 1st rounders in 2020)

Buffalo: JJ Peterka is a hit. But that's about it outside the 1st. Both Quinn & Cozens are also a bit underwhelming for top 10 picks so far imo.

LA: Really mixed bag. Faber is a great pick but does it count if they didn't even know what they had and traded him? 2019 I'd say their 1st round is a bit of a disaster (Turcotte+Björnfot). Does Kaliyev and Spence make up for that? Byfield still hasn't taken the next step.. but they have Laferriere I guess.

Ottawa: Lassi Thomson is a pretty decent d-man in the SHL these days. Pinto saves that draft for them. I don't think Järventie or Kleven are anything to write home about.

etc.

Personally the only pick I really wish Detroit would have made would be Peterka - that said I still think Wallinder has NHL potential.


An argument that fanbases typically overrate their own prospects is fair. An argument that paints the entirety of every fanbase as completely delusional is a bit of a strawman.

I'm actually not here to debate Yzerman... many of you know more about what he has done or hasn't done, than me. I am here to defend Lalonde and the fact he is coaching a team with puzzle pieces that don't fit. Hopefully they can get back in the fight and to do that they need to score more.

 

[shadow1]

There was a chance there would be some regression in regards to goal scoring they had a great shooting % last year. They have cut down GAA but give up a lot of shots I am not sure losing Maatta/Walman/Gostisbehere and replacing them with Johansson/Gustafsson is an upgrade. Edvinsson is in the lineup and will be good and it makes sense to play highly talented young players and get them to develop. Petry/Chiarot/Holl isn't helping either. Yes their roster isn't loaded but the overall roster isn't that great either.

I agree with what you're saying. Detroit's off-season seemed lateral rather than a step forward, and they're a flawed team.

But I still think they're performing below expectations and losing to teams they should beat. Their California road trip was a travesty. They were outshot 104-63 and collected only 1 point, despite their opponents including Anaheim and San Jose.

Technically, the Wings are only 5 points out of a wildcard spot (with 2 games in hand). Statistically, their season isn't lost yet. But there's nothing to indicate they're going to close that gap, at least not with Lalonde behind the bench.

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

I'd debate that.

New Jersey: essentially nothing outside the 1st round (and Holtz-Mercer-Mukhamadullin is a weeeeaaaaak result for 3 1st rounders in 2020)

Buffalo: JJ Peterka is a hit. But that's about it outside the 1st. Both Quinn & Cozens are also a bit underwhelming for top 10 picks so far imo.

LA: Really mixed bag. Faber is a great pick but does it count if they didn't even know what they had and traded him? 2019 I'd say their 1st round is a bit of a disaster (Turcotte+Björnfot). Does Kaliyev and Spence make up for that? Byfield still hasn't taken the next step.. but they have Laferriere I guess.

Ottawa: Lassi Thomson is a pretty decent d-man in the SHL these days. Pinto saves that draft for them. I don't think Järventie or Kleven are anything to write home about.

etc.

Personally the only pick I really wish Detroit would have made would be Peterka - that said I still think Wallinder has NHL potential.

NJ I'd probably agree; they didn't really draft better than Detroit in those two drafts (they also had a lot of picks). Though Mercer is a good player, and they used Holtz and Mukhamadullin to get Cotter and Meier as well, so they still wound up with a good amount of assets as a result (again, the benefit of being an active GM).

Buffalo got 3 solid forwards out of those drafts, including one outside the first round. And unlike Detroit, they didn't stockpile picks for those drafts either. I'm not a big Quinn fan, and the players they got aren't quite as big impact players as Raymond and Seider, but it's not like they could have picked those players either.

While I don't think Blake is a good GM, LA got a lot of good assets out of those 2 drafts. Even if they didn't recognize Faber's talent, they still flipped him for an excellent player in Fiala. Then Byfield, Laferriere and Spence. Their 2019 first round sucked, and I'm not convinced Kaliyev will ever be a contributor, but that's still a great haul overall.

Ottawa got Stutzle, Sanderson, Greig and Pinto from those two drafts (and Kastelic, but since he's basically a replacement-level player I won't count him). I would argue it's a better haul than what Detroit got.

NY also got a great haul in those two drafts, even if you ignore the lotto picks.

I give Yzerman full credits for two great picks in Raymond and Seider (particularly for Seider; Raymond was kind of an obvious pick). But my main point is that all these other teams (aside from NJ) got some value outside the first round, and Detroit didn't, despite specifically stockpiling a ton of picks for those two years. I just don't think you can ignore this if you're honestly evaluating Yzerman's drafting so far; getting something out of rounds 2-7 is a big part of being good at the draft.

Honestly It's not a big deal; plus, Detroit's later drafts look a bit better in that regard (though we won't truly know until they start making the NHL). I just don't understand why that other poster is so unshakably confident that Yzerman's scouting genius will single-handedly carry Detroit through a rebuild. I don't think the available data supports that conclusion.

 

[Czechboy]

I'll add a positive. I thought Becher was a steal s an overager. Always dominant amongst his peers. I thought Rychlovsky was a great free agent signing from Europe. I'm not saying either will win the Art Ross or Richard Trophy but I could see both making it to the NHL in lesser roles for the future. Top 9 type players to fill in around the first rounders. I obviously have a bias though.lol