Detroit Redwings Downfall

[nbwingsfan]

No, the blunder is not adding anyone you can flip.

The funny part about the AA trade tree is both that Yzerman might have still managed to lose that trade, and looking at who was taken with the original picks he traded out of.

Andddd the goal posts continue to get wider.

Just give it up dude. Holland left Yzerman with one of the worst prospect pools in the NHL, the literal worst roster in the NHL, and best pieces to trade being Mantha, Bertuzzi, Hronek and AA….

It was embarrassing

 

[Zarzh]

Andddd the goal posts continue to get wider.

Just give it up dude. Holland left Yzerman with one of the worst prospect pools in the NHL, the literal worst roster in the NHL, and best pieces to trade being Mantha, Bertuzzi, Hronek and AA….

It was embarrassing

They had a top 10 ranked prospect pool which lacked high-end talent, in 6 years Yzerman has managed to transform it into a top 10 ranked prospect pool which lacks high-end talent.

What's embarrassing is they haven't found one vet they could flip for anything significant in free agency, or one young player to take a chance on.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

They had a top 10 ranked prospect pool which lacked high-end talent, in 6 years Yzerman has managed to transform it into a top 10 ranked prospect pool which lacks high-end talent.

What's embarrassing is they haven't found one vet they could flip for anything significant in free agency, or one young player to take a chance on.

Detroit's top prospects when Yzerman took over were Zadina, Veleno, and Berggren.

What's embarrassing is that you continue to post this nonsense.

 

[Zarzh]

Detroit's top prospects when Yzerman took over were Zadina, Veleno, and Berggren.

What's embarrassing is that you continue to post this nonsense.

A child could miss the playoffs and collect lottery picks, it only matters how high and how quickly you climb with them.

Yzerman deserves partial blame for the mismanagement of Zadina even if it started under Holland.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Then it will fall short. Even with reasonably optimistic estimates of what these players will become, that is not a strong enough core to contend. Unless they have a fantastic supporting cast, which the Wings are also completely missing.

In a few years you will cry that it's Detroit who picked Buchelnikov, and not your team...

 

[eojsmada]

A child could miss the playoffs and collect lottery picks, it only matters how high and how quickly you climb with them.

Yzerman deserves partial blame for the mismanagement of Zadina even if it started under Holland.

Wasn't Zadina the one who asked for more term at less $, and then asked to be traded a couple of months later?

 

[PattyLafontaine]

Worst teams in the NHL over the past 6 years:

2020
Sharks
Senators
Red Wings

2021
Devils
Sabres
Ducks

2022
Kraken
Coyotes
Habs

2023
Blue Jackets
Blackhawks
Ducks

2024
Ducks
Blackhawks
Sharks

2025
Sharks
Predators
Blackhawks

The Devils are the only team on that list is over .500 right now. At least the Devils and Wings made some progress to get up and out of the bottom bracket. All the other teams that have been a common factor over these 6 years (primarily the Sharks and Ducks) are still slumming around hoping for a powerball win in the draft. I don’t see how it can be argued that the Ducks and Sharks are farther along right now than they were in 2020. Yes they have young talent on the roster but they are atrocious hockey teams that still have a lot of rebuilding ahead of them. Why would anyone want to be in that position 6 years later?

The Sharks management was in denial that they needed to do a complete rebuild in 2020. It wasn't until Grier was hired that the actual rebuild started that the Sharks started getting rid of their bloated contracts.

Grier got rid of Burns, Karlsson, Hertl, Meier, Jones. Only Couture (who will never play again) and Vlassic remain. Couture will be an injury retirement and Vlassic expires after 2025-2026.

The Sharks got extremely lucky wto win the first pick in the 2024 draft as Celebrini looks like a potential superstar.

The Sharks's prospect pool also improved immensely to where they are now a top 1-3 prospect pool in the NHL as ooposed to being in the 20s when Grier got to San Jose.

 

[nbwingsfan]

They had a top 10 ranked prospect pool which lacked high-end talent, in 6 years Yzerman has managed to transform it into a top 10 ranked prospect pool which lacks high-end talent.

What's embarrassing is they haven't found one vet they could flip for anything significant in free agency, or one young player to take a chance on.

Their prospect pool had literally no talent

A child could miss the playoffs and collect lottery picks, it only matters how high and how quickly you climb with them.

Yzerman deserves partial blame for the mismanagement of Zadina even if it started under Holland.

How in the hell is it Yzermans fault that Zadina sucks

 

[Menzinger]

Have you heard of this thing called 'THE DRAFT LOTTERY'?

Sure. But the Wings also rarely were in a position to maximize their odds of getting the very top picks, especially during deep draft years.

A fair amount of this IS luck rather than human error (though there's still been some of that), I don't disagree there.

But it's still the main reason why the Wings are where they are today, regardless of why that reason came to be

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

In a few years you will cry that it's Detroit who picked Buchelnikov, and not your team...

Unlikely, as I don't have a team. And while I respect your ability to shill for every Russian player in existence, this completely misses the point. Buchelnikov being a good player still wouldn't make that team into a contender. There's just too many holes in that roster long-term, too many to be filled by prospects alone.

 

[FMichael]

Sure. But the Wings also rarely were in a position to maximize their odds of getting the very top picks, especially during deep draft years.

A fair amount of this IS luck rather than human error (though there's still been some of that), I don't disagree there.

But it's still the main reason why the Wings are where they are today, regardless of why that reason came to be

I'll just leave this here when you're bored...

Red Wings Have The Worst Draft Lottery Luck This Decade

To summize:

• Dropped 2 spots in 2017 from 7th to 9th where they took Michael Rasmussen
• Dropped 1 spot in 2018 from 5th to 6th where they took Filip Zadina
• Dropped 2 spots in 2019 from 4th to 6th where they took Moritz Seider
• Detroit dropped 3 spots in 2020 draft from 1st to 4th where they took Lucas Raymond
• Stayed put in 2021 and 2022 where they took Simon Edvinsson and Marco Kasper at 6th and 8th overall respectively

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I posted something about this on HFBlues a few weeks ago and want to add to this conversation.

This is pretty much a full copy and paste of my post.

I've regularly defended the Yzerplan, but I think maybe he is being a little too much of a hard ass. This is based on gut and on reports that he is centrally looking for character guys and guys who have that Red Wings mentality, whatever that is.

Yzerman is stone cold focused and is not settling for less, but this is a new age, a new day and he may be missing the plot.

All in all, they've improved in points each season he's been at the helm.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Unlikely, as I don't have a team. And while I respect your ability to shill for every Russian player in existence, this completely misses the point. Buchelnikov being a good player still wouldn't make that team into a contender. There's just too many holes in that roster long-term, too many to be filled by prospects alone.

Singlehandedly? No. With all those another interesting prospects and young player? Pretty possible.

 

[Czechboy]

They need to stop focusing on drafting euros hoping to recreate Lidstorm, Datsyuk and Zetterburg

Their 3 best current guys to build around are a German, Swede and Swede. Seider, Ervidson and Raymond. The next up with the highest ceiling is ASP.

Larkin is excellent but he'll be in his 30's when they hit their contention window.

 

[Pavels Dog]

There's just too many holes in that roster long-term, too many to be filled by prospects alone.

Who has ever argued that Detroit's roster must be 100% their own prospects?

 

[BB88]

Their 3 best current guys to build around are a German, Swede and Swede. Seider, Ervidson and Raymond. The next up with the highest ceiling is ASP.

Larkin is excellent but he'll be in his 30's when they hit their contention window.

Yep. What you never hear from Detroit fans is that at this pace Larkin will be at the end of his prime when Detroit becomes something which will just create new problems

Everything about their rebuild screams low ceiling at their peak. There’s zero superstars on that offense, there’s nobody who you can with good faith to get to the same level as guys in Florida, Devils etc

They’ll say Raymond but what are the odds Raymond will ever be close to Barkov or Matthews or Hughes or Kucherov?

 

[Ulysses31]

DRW 4 points out of WC spot n game in hand n 3/4 a season to go

 

[Pavels Dog]

Yep. What you never hear from Detroit fans is that at this pace Larkin will be at the end of his prime when Detroit becomes something which will just create new problems

It's been a major point of discussion for at least 5 years. Arguably the biggest questionmark of the rebuilding-timeline.

They’ll say Raymond but what are the odds Raymond will ever be close to Barkov or Matthews or Hughes or Kucherov?

I'd argue Vegas doesn't have a single player close to that level and they won the cup. St.Louis didn't either when they won. So then you need to start including guys like Eichel, Stone, Marchessault, O'Reilly and Tarasenko in the conversation and yes, I think there's decent odds Detroit finds at least one player in that type of tier eventually.

 

[deca guard]

Yep. What you never hear from Detroit fans is that at this pace Larkin will be at the end of his prime when Detroit becomes something which will just create new problems

Everything about their rebuild screams low ceiling at their peak. There’s zero superstars on that offense, there’s nobody who you can with good faith to get to the same level as guys in Florida, Devils etc

They’ll say Raymond but what are the odds Raymond will ever be close to Barkov or Matthews or Hughes or Kucherov?

their stars are going to be on defense = seider-edvinsson-cossa , its how the cookie crumbled on the draft floor . and yzerman NAILED IT ! yzerman made a super deft move on draft floor trading up for hoss cossa , super deft . its going to be like robinson-savard-dryden level domination ! with the two twoway centers kasper n dannyson inflicting more pain on opponant forwards , its called THE YZER'FENCE , scoring against redwings will be very difficult !

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

A child could miss the playoffs and collect lottery picks, it only matters how high and how quickly you climb with them.

Yzerman deserves partial blame for the mismanagement of Zadina even if it started under Holland.

Trying to figure out how a child could've made the lottery balls fall differently than Yzerman did...

At least that's more logical than Yzerman somehow f***ed up Zadina. A prospect who was supposed to go third and mysteriously fell out of favor at the draft, had a shit combine, and zero hockey IQ.

Makes sense though, given how terribly Yzerman's other first round picks in Detroit are panning out... Oh wait.

 

[Dubi Doo]

With all those another interesting prospects and young player? Pretty possible.

Nah. Most rebuilding teams dont become contenders. Odds are most of those magic beans wont hit the level fans expect. This isn't a shot at DET, either. It's just the nature of the game in general.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I'll just leave this here when you're bored...

Red Wings Have The Worst Draft Lottery Luck This Decade

To summize:

• Dropped 2 spots in 2017 from 7th to 9th where they took Michael Rasmussen
• Dropped 1 spot in 2018 from 5th to 6th where they took Filip Zadina
• Dropped 2 spots in 2019 from 4th to 6th where they took Moritz Seider
• Detroit dropped 3 spots in 2020 draft from 1st to 4th where they took Lucas Raymond
• Stayed put in 2021 and 2022 where they took Simon Edvinsson and Marco Kasper at 6th and 8th overall respectively

Didin't tank hard enough , for sure some bad luck but how are you expecting to win lotterys when you finish 5-9 most of those years. The only real bad luck was the Raymond drop

 

[deca guard]

my take on this topic at my reddit page :

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

Who has ever argued that Detroit's roster must be 100% their own prospects?

This string of comments was started by a poster saying there was nothing Yzerman could do in his position beside waiting for prospects to hit and filling existing holes in FA.

I argued in response that there are other ways a GM can improve his team, and that Yzerman's inability to acquire players that can be long-term contributors to his team outside the draft (except for Debrincat) has been a weakness which hampers the Wings rebuild.

 

[Zarzh]

Trying to figure out how a child could've made the lottery balls fall differently than Yzerman did...

At least that's more logical than Yzerman somehow f***ed up Zadina. A prospect who was supposed to go third and mysteriously fell out of favor at the draft, had a shit combine, and zero hockey IQ.

Makes sense though, given how terribly Yzerman's other first round picks in Detroit are panning out... Oh wait.

All of Detroit's picks were lottery picks in Yzerman's tenure, and Kasper and Danielson aren't exactly sure things. The endless whining about missing out on Barrett Hayton and Bowen Byram never made much sense to me, sure you have 2020 but giving up after one try didn't go perfectly is just sad.