Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Cursed Lemon]

They got extremely lucky, not really smart or logical to bank on 1 in 40 odds to payoff regularly

I think you mean the Red wings got unlucky

 

[Barsky]

I think you mean the Red wings got unlucky

I was talking about the Rangers actually, in landing Laf. Ya the Wings got unlucky, but Stevie got also impatient and screwed himself with supbar UFA cast offs. I love him, but his "Yzerplan" has backfired, if you're gonna tank, tank hard, seems like he lost his nerve. That or Illitch made him do it, idk

 

[nbwingsfan]

Larkin and Debrincat will be declining by the time Detroit becomes a contender (if ever). They botched this rebuild big time.

Larkin aged 28, and Debrincat, aged 26, will be bad players in 2-3 years? lol.

So, Yzerman was a great player.... that means nothing. Gretzky was a terrible coach. Roy failed before in the NHL and is now slowly building back his rep in Long Island, although the Isles sit out of the playoffs picture. Nieuwendyk failed as a GM. I don't see Lemieux, Orr, Hull, Potvin, Bourque, Fedorov, Selanne, Lidstrom etc. running teams. Management is different from playing. Arguably the 3'best GMs in the game right now, Zito, Nill, and Allvin, are relative nobodies in the NHL players' archive.

Ok, the Red Wings have a much, much better history than the Panthers....again irrelevant. It doesn't matter what team you root for...the proven best way to build a contender is to tank for multiple years and acquire superstars. This isn't 2002 anymore. There's a salary cap.

Lol Yzerman didn't draft too good of talent....what he did was sign mediocre FAs and make trades that have kept the Wings from bottoming out. I know what's coming up through their pipeline, I follow prospects closely.

Montreal started their rebuild after Detroit, and theirs already looks better. Rangers started their rebuild at the same time as Detroit, and they are far ahead of them now.

Yes, as a Panthers fan I know what a failed rebuild looks like... we've had a couple. There are lots of rebuilds going on in the NHL right now and not all will work out. I think Detroit is one of those.

NYR is ahead because they had a top 5D and a top 10F willing to ONLY sign with them lol.

Montreal is ahead? Look at the standings….

They have prospects, same as the Wings.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

I was talking about the Rangers actually, in landing Laf. Ya the Wings got unlucky, but Stevie got also impatient and screwed himself with supbar UFA cast offs. I love him, but his "Yzerplan" has backfired, if you're gonna tank, tank hard, seems like he lost his nerve. That or Illitch made him do it, idk

But he never said he was going to tank. He said he was going to build through the draft. Everyone else just forgot what that looks like.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Larkin aged 28, and Debrincat, aged 26, will be bad players in 2-3 years? lol.


NYR is ahead because they had a top 5D and a top 10F willing to ONLY sign with them lol.

Montreal is ahead? Look at the standings….

They have prospects, same as the Wings.

Shesterkin is a pretty big part of their team too . Yeah they got lucky, but they also had Lafreniere, Zibanejad, Chyril, Kakko, Miller , Cuylle , Lindgren, Schneider.

Montreal has more top end talent in their system than Detroit

 

[Barsky]

But he never said he was going to tank. He said he was going to build through the draft. Everyone else just forgot what that looks like.

No, he didn't say it specifically, but that's how you build a winner in Gary's NHL. As a Sens fan, I know all too well what that looks like, lol

 

[GMR]

Some weird cultish vibes in here. Most fans are hypercritical of the management on the team. Wings fans are the opposite, management is apparently the messiah.

If you visit the Wings board, you'll see that's not true.

We have our own lengthy threads on that board criticizing management.

 

[Kranix]

Not very far to fall.

 

[Dotter]

2015 lol
Chabot was the 18th pick lol, means they were in the playoffs
Then 2017 double overtime game 7 loss from cup final.

Detroit has gone longer than Ottawa missing the playoffs.

If you start rebuilds only counting when the new GM takes over (nobody does),
Ottawa’s is one year into rebuild, using that misguided logic.

That year they had two 1st round picks and two 2nd round picks. They were sellers to aquire extra picks. Selling is part of a rebuild, no?

Ottawa made the playoffs like 2 times in 12 years. Derp- "That's what success looks like! Rebuild officially over!!!"

 

[Golden_Jet]

That year they had two 1st round picks and two 2nd round picks. They were sellers to aquire extra picks. Selling is part of a rebuild, no?

Ottawa made the playoffs like 2 times in 12 years. Derp- "That's what success looks like! Rebuild officially over!!!"

So if redwings are one goal away from a cup final, they’ll still be in the rebuild,
Says no-one but Dotter.
Thanks for the laughs.

 

[SirKillalot]

I don't see Lemieux, Orr, Hull, Potvin, Bourque, Fedorov, Selanne, Lidstrom etc. running teams. Management is different from playing. Arguably the 3'best GMs in the game right now, Zito, Nill, and Allvin, are relative nobodies in the NHL players' archive.

Nill was almost getting fired ahead of the 2020 season and now best 3 in the league, maybe it helps giving someone time to do what their plan is.

You can't just go by results alone, you got to go by starting point. If not, Sharks could just fired Grier after last year, which obviously by results would be deserved, but by plan he is doing a solid job.

Montreal started their rebuild after Detroit, and theirs already looks better. Rangers started their rebuild at the same time as Detroit, and they are far ahead of them now.

Montreal doesn't look better, I think they are slightly ahead in their curve than Detroit, but could pan out all ways at this point. Similar to Ottawa.

Rangers were never really as bad. First of all they had more pieces of value and they had more good pieces they could keep. More so than being a bad team, they had some bad years.
Can't really say they rebuilded, more re-tooled.

In 2017 they were 48-28-6 and in the playoffs - had 7th overall pick
In 2018 they were 34-39-9 and 8th worst. Had 9th overall pick
In 2019 they were 32-36-14 and 6th worst. Had 2nd overall pick.
In 2020 they were 37-28-5 and tied 7th worst. Had 1st overall pick.
In 2021 they were 27-23-6 tied 15th worst. Had 16th overall pick
In 2022 they were 52-24-6 tied 8th best in the league. traded 1st round
In 2023 they were 47-22-13 9th best in the league 23rd overall pick
In 2024 they were 55-23-4 best in the league. 30th overall pick

Detroit had:
In 2017 they were 33-36-13 tied 6th worst - had 9th overall pick
In 2018 they were 30-39-13 tied 5th worst - had 6th overall pick
In 2019 they were 32-40-10 4th worst - had 6th overall pick
In 2020 they were 17-49-5 worst team by 24 points - had 4th overall pick
In 2021 they were 19-27-10 tied 4th worst - had 6th overall pick
In 2022 they were 32-40-10 8th worst - had 8th overall pick
In 2023 they were 35-27-10 tied 8th worst - had 9th overall pick
In 2024 they were 41-32-9 tied 15th worst - had 15th overall pick

Not one time has Detroit drafted above position. Rangers did so 3 times. And a lot above as well.

 

[newfy]

Oiler fan here, agreeing with this Leaf fan.


You guys are trying to do what we did. Rebuild with Kadri/Kessel/JVR Hall/RNH/Eberle
You need to build around McDavid/Draisaitl or Matthews/Marner level talent

The wings are doing the opposite of what Edmonton did because Edmonton showed how horribly it worked. They drafted at the top for years, had absolutely 0 dmen or veterans to help teach the young guys good habits. They got out of it by drafting a future top 5 player of all time.

The wings right now have 2 dmen that are better/going to be better than anything Edmonton has had in 15 years. Their rebuilds aren't comparable. On this website the oilers got circle jerked for years about how good they were gonna be because they went all in with the young guys and look how that worked out.

2015 lol
Chabot was the 18th pick lol, means they were in the playoffs
Then 2017 double overtime game 7 loss from cup final.

Detroit has gone longer than Ottawa missing the playoffs.

If you start rebuilds only counting when the new GM takes over (nobody does),
Ottawa’s is one year into rebuild, using that misguided logic.

I don't think Detroits rebuild started when Yzerman took over, but I think its fair to judge Yzerman for only his tenure and not lumping picks like Zadina or Rasmussen onto his resume.

I also think its funny to act like Ottawa is either miles ahead in their rebuilds or that circumstances weren't completely different. Ottawa had to sell a team in their prime, that was 1 goal away from the cup final because of inept management and leadership around the team. Detroit started with nothing in the cupboards after years as one of the top/most respected teams in the league.

Ottawa should be so much further ahead than they are right now.

We'll see how Detroits rebuild does when all their dmen and goalies arrive, they don't a lot of flashy forwards that will get loved on a website like this though

 

[Golden_Jet]

I also think its funny to act like Ottawa is either miles ahead in their rebuilds

Where in the post was Ottawa is miles ahead.

 

[LarKing]

Some weird cultish vibes in here. Most fans are hypercritical of the management on the team. Wings fans are the opposite, management is apparently the messiah.

Please come to the Wings board and see how very wrong you are. A couple outlandish takes do no represent the majority

 

[VeteranPresence]

If you visit the Wings board, you'll see that's not true.

We have our own lengthy threads on that board criticizing management.

Really? Can we get some of those posters in this thread here?

 

[Pavels Dog]

Montreal has more top end talent in their system than Detroit

People tend to overrate offense in the prospect pipeline and underrate defense. That's because it's a lot easier to "see" offense on hockey db or eliteprospects. The end result of Detroit drafting a lot of good two-way players remains to be seen, but we're starting to see a little bit of it with Kasper being a good defensive center already, Raymond developing a strong defensive game, and Edvinsson-Seider being one of the league's best defensive pairings.

 

[GMR]

Really? Can we get some of those posters in this thread here?

We prefer to criticize our team internally, not in front of opposing fanbases.

Seriously, though, the younger fans have no allegiance to Yzerman. Even the older crowd is tired of mediocrity. Over these last few years, the criticism of Yzerman has increased among Wings fans. The signings of Holl, Petry, Walman trade, Lalonde's still being coach, etc. are all major sources of frustration.

 

[Dotter]

Detroit's Rebuild started when the current GM was hired after they already missed the Playoffs three straight years. Ottawa's rebuild started when they made the Playoffs multiple GMs ago... make it make sense.

We are talking about failed rebuild attempts. I already concurred with the poster that Holland's rebuild was a complete and utter failure. I was very clear on that.

Yzerman had to step in and start cleaning up his mess.

This thread is moving fast and people are taking everything out of context. Short attention span is the new culture, I suppose.

I can't reply to all the nonsense here, but one funny post in this thread is someone said because yzerman signed Holl and a few other rejects, that means he's rushing things. Last time I checked NHL teams have to hit the salary floor and you have to ice a roster.

Curious what the penalty would be if yzerman does what HFboard armchair GMs wanted and said "screw the cap floor!" I bet those same posters will make a thread to say how bad yzerman is for not following the rules.

You people are a real joy. Really makes my Friday better reading all this crap.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I can't reply to all the nonsense here, but one funny post in this thread is someone said because yzerman signed Holl and a few other rejects, that means he's rushing things. Last time I checked NHL teams have to hit the salary floor and you have to ice a roster.

Curious what the penalty would be if yzerman does what HFboard armchair GMs wanted and said "screw the cap floor!" I bet those same posters will make a thread to say how bad yzerman is for not following the rules.

Holl and Petry signed July 2023.
For 23/24 season wings ended up 3 million below maximum cap, and you think they were worried about the cap floor

 

[dgibb10]

Holl and Petry signed July 2023.
For 23/24 season wings ended up 3 million below maximum cap, and you think they were worried about the cap floor

Heck they even paid for retention on petry

 

[WarriorofTime]

People tend to overrate offense in the prospect pipeline and underrate defense. That's because it's a lot easier to "see" offense on hockey db or eliteprospects. The end result of Detroit drafting a lot of good two-way players remains to be seen, but we're starting to see a little bit of it with Kasper being a good defensive center already, Raymond developing a strong defensive game, and Edvinsson-Seider being one of the league's best defensive pairings.

Montreal has good D prospects too though, until they drafted Demidov their biggest hole was a Demidov like player.

 

[WarriorofTime]

We are talking about failed rebuild attempts. I already concurred with the poster that Holland's rebuild was a complete and utter failure. I was very clear on that.

But this is nonsense, speak less about Yzerman the Cult of Personality Leader and the Red Wings as a whole. Things are always much more fluid. They weren't an expansion team in April of 2019. They had draft picks, prospects, roster players including ones that were or could have been traded. They had been doing "rebuild stuff" for a while, which is why Yzerman walked in with so many draft picks in 2019 to begin with. You don't get to view every other team as a free-flowing continuous organization across multiple executive teams, but place everything from a Red Wings standpoint as Day 1 being April 19, 2019. That is just not an objective analysis and a double standard. If you compare Yzerman the GM to [x] the GM then you can only look from the time each GM took over, if you are taking a big picture look at organizations then you look at all of them the same and not one standard for one and a different for another.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Really? Can we get some of those posters in this thread here?

They're in this thread, you people just refuse to listen to anything that's not "durr yzerman bad".

I don't really like what Yzerman is doing and wish we had tanked harder. I think his FA signings are atrocious. However I think the guys we have drafted for the most part look really promising and I'm hopeful for the future. I guess this means I think management is the "messiah"?

 

[Dotter]

So if redwings are one goal away from a cup final, they’ll still be in the rebuild,
Says no-one but Dotter.
Thanks for the laughs.

When was this cup finals you speak of? Can't be the past 8 years...

According to this thread, Ottawa is rebuilding wrong and need to blow it up before it is too late.