Detroit Redwings Downfall

[eojsmada]

holl is a known commodity by the time yzerman signed him. but i get what you're saying.

yzerman thrived under tampas scouts but hasn't been able to build the same type of organization in detroit,

Ken Holland made a Hall of Fame career off the backs of Hakan Anderson and Jim Devellano.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

The reality of the draft lottery is that teams at the top of the draft have better chances of moving backward in the draft than staying put/advancing.

So Wings and Columbus probably sucked for a long time.....

Just because a team drafts at the top doesn't mean they got an elite player.

The Oilers got Hall, RNH, and Yakupov 1st overall and none of them were elite. It wasn't until they got McDavid and Draisaitl that the thing got turned around.


The Wings have NO elite talent. They have some decent support players, but nobody elite. Same with Columbus.

Jury is still out on Fantilli & Lindstrom, but they're not exactly tracking to be in the same stratosphere as Bedard or Celebrini.

 

[VeteranPresence]

So much hyperbole. Team was less than 1 point from playoffs last season. We're 14 games into this one.

...and they're still not in playoff position. Stevie Y's plan is gonna kick in any day, right?

 

[PM88RU]

Maybe Helle?

He already has 2 Vezinas and is trending this season towards his third.
Winning hardware across several seasons. He's a f***ing wall. What do you mean "Maybe" ellite?

The dude is considered the best goalie in hockey with Shesh. He's 100% elite, and might even be headed towards the HHOF.

Agreed.

The point was there’s no superstar power in Jets team besides Helle, and he surely doesn’t play D or F.

Somehow Jets GM managed to assemble a team to beat. And Winnipeg is no Florida or NY to attract UFAs. So, GM made a tremendous work!

I really respect that and wish them to get a Cup in the nearest future.

What I’m trying to say, “tank it” doesn’t guarantee you anything. It’s better to find its own way IMHO. DRW is known for non-standard decisions and draft picks. From Russian 5 to Dats and Z, there are lots of brilliant stories. Yes, that maybe harder than “go full tank” mode, but that’s what separates excellent GMs and scout services from mediocre. Hard work and risky takes against counting on luck to get good draft numbers.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

How far are you gonna get in the playoffs? Do you really think what you have in the system is gonna beat Florida, Rangers, Carolina, Jersey, etc. in a few years?

Don't tell me. Tell the fanbase (one that hasn't moved up in the draft in like a decade) that they should be happy to be bottom-3 in the league for like 8 years.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

So much hyperbole. Team was less than 1 point from playoffs last season. We're 14 games into this one.

And why did they miss the playoffs last season?

Could it have had something to do with their self-implosion in March despite having a 9 point lead from the cutoff point at the end of February?

 

[LarKing]

The questions I have are:

Do we need another thread questioning the Wings brass on the main board?

If so, who is this question posed to? Is it posed to Wings fan in an attempt to get a genuine answer? Or is it more for the fans of the other 31 teams to echo each other and say "wow, Yzerman is an idiot, and we are geniuses!"?

Because the litany of other Wings fans in this thread have already answered every single question that's been posed.

Big reddit energy (I'm the smartest guy in the room) in this thread.

We all know the answer to this but nobody else is going to respond to this post. Well said.

 

[saska sault]

We all know the answer to this but nobody else is going to respond to this post. Well said.

I promise myself to only read these threads while on the company toilet. I wanna be paid for this shit.

 

[nbwingsfan]

They’re saying they should have tanked the year Bedard and others were available. Two season ago. Not sure what the confusion is.

How exactly were they supposed to do that? They had good players they weren’t going to trade and be worse for even longer

 

[WarriorofTime]

How exactly were they supposed to do that? They had good players they weren’t going to trade and be worse for even longer

That’s too bad

 

[Dread Clawz]

Don't tell me. Tell the fanbase (one that hasn't moved up in the draft in like a decade) that they should be happy to be bottom-3 in the league for like 8 years.

Well it's better than being stuck in no man's land for years. At least you have hope of getting better, by continuously drafting blue chip prospects.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Well it's better than being stuck in no man's land for years. At least you have hope of getting better, by continuously drafting blue chip prospects.

Except Steve Yzerman has no incentive to do that because he's gonna get fired if he does that

 

[Dread Clawz]

Except Steve Yzerman has no incentive to do that because he's gonna get fired if he does that

If he had done that from the beginning, he wouldn't have been fired. Stevie Y? In Detroit? Nah. Now, 6 years in, yes it's too late.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

If he had done that from the beginning, he wouldn't have been fired. Stevie Y? In Detroit? Nah. Now, 6 years in, yes it's too late.

...So again, an increasing win percentage every year and one game out of the playoffs last year means he's on the hot seat, but spending his entire tenure at the absolute bottom and he's golden?

 

[Dread Clawz]

...So again, an increasing win percentage every year and one game out of the playoffs last year means he's on the hot seat, but spending his entire tenure at the absolute bottom and he's golden?

If he had spent 6 years at the bottom, he likely would be farther along at this point, and with a better future outlook.

 

[ClydeLee]

...So again, an increasing win percentage every year and one game out of the playoffs last year means he's on the hot seat, but spending his entire tenure at the absolute bottom and he's golden?

Yes, You don't get this? It's about what message you're sending.

If Detroit, Yzerman, and media expectations weren't saying the Wings should be a playoff team the last 2-3 years, it wouldn't be an issue in that same way that they weren't.

Last year there was CBJ fans defending Jarmo because they recently got many high end prospects, but they would never respond when you asked them, is that what CBJ and Jarmo were trying to do? Because they weren't. They weren't trying to push hard on a rebuild, they were aiming to be a playoff team but failing at it. That's a huge issue.

If you're not doing what you're promoting and making moves clearly trying to do, that is a big problem.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

If he had spent 6 years at the bottom, he likely would be farther along at this point, and with a better future outlook.

Do I have to repeat the "Detroit never moves up in the draft" part

 

[nbwingsfan]

If he had spent 6 years at the bottom, he likely would be farther along at this point, and with a better future outlook.

They’d have a better future outlook without Larkin, Seider, Raymond, Debrincat?

 

[Dread Clawz]

Do I have to repeat the "Detroit never moves up in the draft" part

If you finish last or 2nd last each year, you don't have to move up.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

If you finish last or 2nd last each year, you don't have to move up.

That's interesting because I could've sworn that Lafreniere plays for the Rangers

 

[Dread Clawz]

They’d have a better future outlook without Larkin, Seider, Raymond, Debrincat?

Yes. And let me preface this by saying Seider is amazing, and a potential future Norris winner. But if they didn't get him, they could have gotten another D at the top of the draft. Or simply picked Seider higher in 2019.

Also, lots of Wings fans looking 4-5 years down the road to when ASP, Edvinsson, Kasper, Danielsson , Brandsegg-Nygard, Cossa/Augustine etc. all are hopefully up with the big team to some extent... in 5 years Larkin will be 34. How many years will he have as a decent 1C after that? I know as a Panthers fan, we look at 5 years from now as about the end of our window as Barkov, Reinhart, Verhaeghe, will be 34, and Forsling will be 33. Bennett who knows, might not even be playing anymore.

Larkin-Seider-Raymond-DeBrincat is a decent core, but not one that's gonna deliver a Cup on it's own. For that to happen, ASP and Edvinsson will have to become stars, Kasper and Danielsson both need to hit their max potential, Brandsegg-Nygard needs to become Mark Stone, and one of the goalies needs to develop into a Vezina contender . Very slim chances of that all happening.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Yes. And let me preface this by saying Seider is amazing, and a potential future Norris winner. But if they didn't get him, they could have gotten another D at the top of the draft. Or simply picked Seider higher in 2019.

Also, lots of Wings fans looking 4-5 years down the road to when ASP, Edvinsson, Kasper, Danielsson , Brandsegg-Nygard, Cossa/Augustine etc. all are hopefully up with the big team to some extent... in 5 years Larkin will be 34. How many years will he have as a decent 1C after that? I know as a Panthers fan, we look at 5 years from now as about the end of our window as Barkov, Reinhart, Verhaeghe, will be 34, and Forsling will be 33. Bennett who knows, might not even be playing anymore.

Larkin-Seider-Raymond-DeBrincat is a decent core, but not one that's gonna deliver a Cup on it's own. For that to happen, ASP and Edvinsson will have to become stars, Kasper and Danielsson both need to hit their max potential, Brandsegg-Nygard needs to become Mark Stone, and one of the goalies needs to develop into a Vezina contender . Very slim chances of that all happening.

Except they don’t need all that to happen.

This also applies to… every rebuilding team?

Cool they trade away their best players… now they also need all their draft picks to all hit their potential… imagine that!

 

[Dread Clawz]

That's interesting because I could've sworn that Lafreniere plays for the Rangers

Lafreniere isn't even a good example. He may develop into a bonafide 1st liner, but you guys need more than a Lafreniere. You need a Bedard/Celebrini/Michkov/Carlsson.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Except they don’t need all that to happen.

This also applies to… every rebuilding team?

Cool they trade away their best players… now they also need all their draft picks to all hit their potential… imagine that!

Yeah, they kinda do need all that to happen. Larkin, Raymond, and DeBrincat aren't leading you to a Cup, sorry.

Yes, most rebuilding teams have better high end talent than the Wings though .

Yeah, the Wings would need a lot of their draft picks to hit their potential, but at least they wouldn't have a 34 year old Larkin hanging around. By the time this rebuild bears all it's fruit, and Yzerman is through letting his prospects ripen in the minors, Larkin is gonna be in his mid-thirties, and then Detroit will need a new 1st line center

 

[norrisnick]

Yeah, they kinda do need all that to happen. Larkin, Raymond, and DeBrincat aren't leading you to a Cup, sorry.

Yes, most rebuilding teams have better high end talent than the Wings though .

Yeah, the Wings would need a lot of their draft picks to hit their potential, but at least they wouldn't have a 34 year old Larkin hanging around. By the time this rebuild bears all it's fruit, and Yzerman is through letting his prospects ripen in the minors, Larkin is gonna be in his mid-thirties, and then Detroit will need a new 1st line center

For a Florida fan you seem to be struggling to see value in anything that isn't a scoring forward.