Details Surrounding Nazem Kadri Trade

[SmoggyTwinkles]

that's pretty much what happened , lol

what i would like to know considering the reports/rumors of the Shanny and Dumpster relationship souring during the reg season is was it Shanny that wanted to extend Dumpster or was it the board that wanted to bring him back until he pulled his douche move

I don't know but I freakin' love the idea of Shanny saying "there's the door" and pointing to it.

Fills me with warmth.

 

[ULF_55]

So Kadri had a 10 team NTC that Lamoriello gave him.

So that left 20 teams that he could be traded to.

Brodie was the primary target, but that was blocked.
So are we thinking Barrie was the primary target in the Avs deal?
Barrie coming off 15 goals and 59 points.
Barrie was 7th. in D scoring that year.
Turned 28 and fell off a cliff.
Kerfoot was the Jankowski replacement in the deal.

Didn't like the Barrie part of the deal, Barrie was who we thought he was... da-Bears

Perhaps that was the best offer anyone of those 20 teams would agree to?

Best thing that happened to Kadri was getting traded off the DOPS microscope stage.

 

[Maple Leaf]

I would have kept kadri, stanley cup chamption

 

[JT AM da real deal]

In his new book "Dreamer: My Life On The Edge" Nazem Kadri goes into detail about the circumstances around the trade that saw him leave Toronto. Suffice to say then GM Kyle Dubas and the rest of the Leafs brass at the time come out looking pretty duplicitous.

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https://x.com/i/web/status/1849183278177149178

Now I'm not going to front, I wanted Kadri dealt after his second straight playoff suspension. However, the way with which the Leafs went about doing it is so scummy. Why lie to the guy and say he's still part of the future here when you were planning to deal him? Why are Calgary players and management brought in to try and convince him to waive his NTC? You're own players get confused and the guy you lied to has to cover your ass? And all this when the dude's wife is about to have a kid and thinks he's not going anywhere.

All this secrecy and sneaking to ultimately rush a trade for Tyson Barrie and Alex Kerfoot.

Hate to say it but hockey maybe da worst sport for what I call double talk .. most who have played have gone through similar experiences .. we eat our own in hockey .. not a nice thing to say but it has been going on for a hundred years .. kadri just bringing it to light which is also abnormal .. but this actually is not a real bad one at all

 

[Menzinger]

I’m curious for the day Kyle speaks out fully on what deals he felt controlled by or were nixed via Shanahan. Just based on Kadri’s accounts and even the rumours after the series. It feels like Kadri moving was a decision made above Kyle Dubas. I believe that call was made by Shanahan. The timing of the deal felt rushed and everything too. Still a bad deal by Dubas in hindsight but I’d be curious to see who ultimately decided the Leafs need to move on from Kadri.

I wouldn't be surprised that was the case. For example,.while nothing was ever confirmed/leaked to the media but Ive always suspected Shanny was the main driver of trading Kessel. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the case with Kadri (Dubas' obviously bares responsibility for the outcome of the trade/negotiation though regardless)

 

[Ciao]

Oh, boo hoo.

It was a shitty trade for the Leafs, but Kadri has no cause for complaints. He was traded to a team not on his no-trade list. Like, big deal?

 

[notbias]

He was pretty bad at it. Muzzin is the only effective one he brought in who was here for a while under him. The problems with Dubas were twofold. First, he failed to identify toughness that was useful, either getting guys too old or just plain not good. Second, the Leafs didn't value toughness and pushed a pacifist mentality so that even when those guys were brought in they were joining a club that never engaged physically, so what was the point? You bring in Nick Foligno and one of his first games Keefe is telling him not to fight? The toughness Dubas brought in did not adequately fit or replace what we lost over his time here.


Here's a look at how Dubas handled toughness during his 5 seasons at the helm:

2018-19 Komarov and Martin were lost and while I get that they're bottom-six players and some might not value what they brought, their games are valued and they played a role on Islanders teams that went deeper in the playoffs than this franchise has in decades. Polak was also lost that season too, leaving us with a soft D-Corps until Muzzin was brought in. Kadri is on an island, tries to do too much against a Boston that was just bullying us and the rest is history.

2019-20 Even more toughness is lost with the Kadri trade, which would be fine if it was a good trade but it very much wasn't. We got a terrible fit in Charmin-soft Barrie and a tweener in Kerfoot. He attached Clifford to the Campbell trade but had to trade Moore to do it so at best that's a wash. Leafs had their worst season of the Matthews era, though that's not entirely because of a lack of toughness. Babcock was a jackass and as a whole the team was just worse off. Also this was the season of the infamous Marchment for Malgin trade, a microcosm of Dubas' philosophy and blind spot.

2020-21 He brings in a past his prime Simmonds and signs Bogosian and Vesey to one year deals for bottom pair and middle six grit. Simmonds was cooked, Vesey didn't find a place here and was waiver fodder, and Bogosian was good, fair play there. The Nash trade on it's own is ok but bringing in an old and injury-prone Foligno to essentially block any chance of regular season playing time because of the cap was terrible, not to mention Foligno was just bad. These moves also didn't work because these guys were basically mercenaries with expiring contracts. If there's no real will from the core guys or coaching staff to mix it up or fight back why should they? I know Foligno and Simmonds tried but it wasn't enough. He does have the sense to draft Knies.

2021-22 Out the door goes Hyman, Bogosian, Foligno, and Nash. Simmonds is re-signed to be an enforcer but he was the least effective toughness. Bunting and Ritchie are signed and while Bunting isn't strong or tough he at least plays like an agitator and got in opponents faces. Ritchie just sucked. He trades for Lyubushkin but that's it on the toughness front. This season was probably the softest the forward group had ever been. Kerfoot, Mikheyev, Engvall, Kase, and Kampf were all the same type of temperament and similar playstyle and they littered the bottom nine. Bunting was a rat, Spezza had heart, and Simmonds tried to enforce but that was nowhere near enough. Dubas signs McMann to an NHL deal at the end of the year.

2022-23 Lyubushkin is out, no great loss. Dubas does a bit of work around the edges, bringing in Aube-Kubel and Aston-Reese for the bottom six (only one of those guys worked out) and Benn for defensive depth. There's some softness subtraction with Mikheyev and Kase leaving but he makes sure to give Malgin one more shot to try and show that there was something there now that Marchment has taken off elsewhere. Malgin experiment fails and he's traded for depth. Things look to be more of the same old same old until Dubas pulls off the biggest TDL this franchise has seen since 2003, bringing in O'Reilly, Acciari, McCabe, Lafferty, Schenn, and Gustaffson. The first five guys all played with an edge and brought more to the table than just run of the mill pugilism. O'Reilly was a 2C, Acciari was a defensively sound 3rd line wrecking ball, McCabe was a tough top four defenseman, Lafferty was a gritty 4C penalty-killer, and Schenn was a heavy third pairing defenseman that blossomed into more here and played on the top pair with Rielly. Knies is also promoted and helps fill the hole left by Hyman.

None of the toughness Dubas tried to bring in beforehand outside of Muzzin even came close to the quality that he found that trade deadline. 4 previous seasons he couldn't identify any gritty players who fit well and played outside of the bottom pair or 4th line. It's absurd but it's true. This came at a great cost mind you but it led to the only series win this franchise has seen.

Now with Treliving we've got a defence that's full of mean SOBs with McCabe, OEL, and Benoit. The forward group has a good amount of physicality and nastiness that can actually play with Knies, McMann, Domi, Lorentz, and Dewar. Reaves isn't in the ideal playoff lineup but there's something to be said about his reputation and the camaraderie he brings. Dubas brought in Clifford and Simmonds so it's not like he was completely against enforcers himself.

Define toughness, because you brought up Domi who will fight and sucker punch guys and then never hit or do anything tough in between the whistles.

You also just listed a bunch of people who Dubas brought in: McCabe, Knies, and McMann, and somehow attributed them to Treliving.

I honestly don't want to read through all this without a definition of soft/tough, sorry, you are just all over the play, you listed Kase as soft but he was tougher between the whistles than Domi for example.

If you are including someone like OEL in this as a mean D you may as well list Ozighano, Holl, or Gio.

It's just not consistent.

Why do you need stats to have a conversation? Can't we go off what we saw and continued to see under KD?

Are four first-round exits and a feeble second-round exit under KD, not good enough indications that the team's mentality relative to talent wasn't sufficient?

You did say in a prior post that "tough guys" were acquired, so what's the issue?

ok, here is my response to an opinion-based post.

I disagree and think that they were mentally tough, prove me wrong.

 

[hamzarocks]

Man dubas sucked here and he continues to suck for the Pens

Crazy his fanboys still haven't gotten over him. His tenure was a complete failure.

Time to live in the present, if treliving loses R1 this year he should be on hot seat and fired next year barring a cup. These GMs/coaches/players need to deliver

 

[hamzarocks]

So Kadri had a 10 team NTC that Lamoriello gave him.

So that left 20 teams that he could be traded to.

Brodie was the primary target, but that was blocked.
So are we thinking Barrie was the primary target in the Avs deal?
Barrie coming off 15 goals and 59 points.
Barrie was 7th. in D scoring that year.
Turned 28 and fell off a cliff.
Kerfoot was the Jankowski replacement in the deal.

Didn't like the Barrie part of the deal, Barrie was who we thought he was... da-Bears

Perhaps that was the best offer anyone of those 20 teams would agree to?

Best thing that happened to Kadri was getting traded off the DOPS microscope stage.

The bigger issue was Dubas didnt consider building a team for the long-term

He targetted 1 year UFAs Brodie and Barrie

Barrie if he popped for 60-70 pts would still be a flawed 2-way guy (horrific d-player) and would want 8-9M and we had to extend Andersen soon (remember he was being talked a stop 7-8 goalie and guy.who would get 6-7M) and would make Rielly less valuable at a 5M caphit hurting his play and trade value

If we couldnt bank on Kadri bouncing back to form at 4.5Mx3, we needed to target an impact D with 2 or 3 year term who would be part of the team for an extended period of time and compliment Rielly rather than compete against him directly

Kerfoot getting gifted 3.5Mx4 was horrible too. A vanilla and bland player, with little positive offensive skillset, and zero grit/physicality/character getting assigned 4 year term and a larger role than deserved (2LW spot with 91 and 88). Instead of targetting a stronger and better fit player we locked in a player who didnt bring 3.5M worth of value for 4 years ajd Dubas insisted on retaining him to try and not make this Kadri deal look worse than it already was

Complete lack of rostwr building skills and inexperience by a chump who was way in over his head

 

[ULF_55]

The bigger issue was Dubas didnt consider building a team for the long-term

He targetted 1 year UFAs Brodie and Barrie

Barrie if he popped for 60-70 pts would still be a flawed 2-way guy (horrific d-player) and would want 8-9M and we had to extend Andersen soon (remember he was being talked a stop 7-8 goalie and guy.who would get 6-7M) and would make Rielly less valuable at a 5M caphit hurting his play and trade value

If we couldnt bank on Kadri bouncing back to form at 4.5Mx3, we needed to target an impact D with 2 or 3 year term who would be part of the team for an extended period of time and compliment Rielly rather than compete against him directly

Kerfoot getting gifted 3.5Mx4 was horrible too. A vanilla and bland player, with little positive offensive skillset, and zero grit/physicality/character getting assigned 4 year term and a larger role than deserved (2LW spot with 91 and 88). Instead of targetting a stronger and better fit player we locked in a player who didnt bring 3.5M worth of value for 4 years ajd Dubas insisted on retaining him to try and not make this Kadri deal look worse than it already was

Complete lack of rostwr building skills and inexperience by a chump who was way in over his head

There was much more wrong with the team than Kerfoot being on it.

 

[Gallagbi]

The bigger issue was Dubas didnt consider building a team for the long-term

He targetted 1 year UFAs Brodie and Barrie

Barrie if he popped for 60-70 pts would still be a flawed 2-way guy (horrific d-player) and would want 8-9M and we had to extend Andersen soon (remember he was being talked a stop 7-8 goalie and guy.who would get 6-7M) and would make Rielly less valuable at a 5M caphit hurting his play and trade value

If we couldnt bank on Kadri bouncing back to form at 4.5Mx3, we needed to target an impact D with 2 or 3 year term who would be part of the team for an extended period of time and compliment Rielly rather than compete against him directly

Kerfoot getting gifted 3.5Mx4 was horrible too. A vanilla and bland player, with little positive offensive skillset, and zero grit/physicality/character getting assigned 4 year term and a larger role than deserved (2LW spot with 91 and 88). Instead of targetting a stronger and better fit player we locked in a player who didnt bring 3.5M worth of value for 4 years ajd Dubas insisted on retaining him to try and not make this Kadri deal look worse than it already was

Complete lack of rostwr building skills and inexperience by a chump who was way in over his head

I think the value for Kadri coming off b2b playoff suspensions, a ~50ish pt season was lower than most fans wanted. He was a flawed player at that points so you're looking at a flawed return.

Personally I would have went for picks then tried to flip it in a Muzzin esque deal closer to the deadline, but I get targetting a RD who looked to be solidly in the top 4 with term as their "flaw".

Our RD was eaten up the previous playoff and we had very little puck movement. Brodie was great fit because he filled a few needs, Barrie as plan B felt like settling but still addressed a need

 

[Strangle]

As everyone who has worked for someone else knows plans change.

People who've worked for multi-billion dollar corporations know even the CEO can be moved for the right price / reason. At least they didn't have him train his replacement and pull the rug out from under him after he got his assistant replacement up to speed.

As far as moving ... who here thinks Kadri wrapped up his own china, and made his own travel arrangements, and flew to Colorado without assistance, and on his own did poop?

Lots of regular working stiffs do that all the time with and without families and on a budget.

I was involved in a major labour reduction, 30% of the headcount was being laid off.

In the middle of a Sunday, final planning session before announcing the layoffs, the boss running the whole reduction got pulled out of the meeting and walked out right then and there.

He was part of the layoffs, but he didn’t know until he had already done his part organizing the others layoffs.

It’s just business

 

[Strangle]

I would have kept kadri, stanley cup chamption

Kadri was the hardest player I’ve watched leave this team since Clark was traded for Sundin

 

[ULF_55]

I would have kept kadri, stanley cup chamption

Leafs never had a "kadri stanley cup champion".

 

[diceman934]

I hated the trade. He got suspended for almost nothing. He was treated poorly by leafs Management from day one. He loved playing for the Leafs and I would not have traded him at all.

 

[Gabriel426]

To me it wasn’t the MGT lied about keeping him then trading him…. As the end of the playoffs and the trade happened months apart and things changed.

Felt for Kadri but this is professional sports.

The problem I have is that MGT should had spoke with Kadri about a trade and try to get him to waive for Calgary instead of letting Kadri be the last to know.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Define toughness, because you brought up Domi who will fight and sucker punch guys and then never hit or do anything tough in between the whistles.

You also just listed a bunch of people who Dubas brought in: McCabe, Knies, and McMann, and somehow attributed them to Treliving.

I honestly don't want to read through all this without a definition of soft/tough, sorry, you are just all over the play, you listed Kase as soft but he was tougher between the whistles than Domi for example.

If you are including someone like OEL in this as a mean D you may as well list Ozighano, Holl, or Gio.

It's just not consistent.

First point, Domi is like Bunting is that he's a prick and hopefully is getting under the other teams skin. That he's also willing to chuck 'em to stick up for teammates is a bonus. It's what we lacked a lot of over the years.

Second point, no I haven't. I have on numerous occasions made sure to credit Dubas for the toughness he's brought in and how they were acquired. Granted my final paragraph didn't make that distinction but I did give him credit within that post and in earlier posts both in this thread and elsewhere. I can't help it if you missed that. If you want a just Treliving only additions then it's Domi, Dewar, Lorentz, Reaves, Tanev, OEL, and Benoit.

Third, I completely disagree with Kase. In his one season here he paced for fewer hits than Domi had last season. In no world is he a tougher player.

Holl? The guy who got beat up by RNH? Really? Igor threw the body around a decent amount but Dubas didn't retain him so big deal. OEL plays with an edge, lays some pretty big hits, and gets in the opponents face. Holl may have caught guys a few times too but he was never aggressive in his playstyle.

Giordano is closer to Tanev, both men are willing to to whatever it takes to defend, including recklessly throwing their bodies in front of dozens of pucks. You'll notice I didn't list Tanev either but I suppose his and Gio's shot-blocking prowess should get them added. But then I would point out that Gio was past his prime and on the downswing of his career, just like other tough players Dubas brought in.

I think I'm pretty consistent so agree to disagree.

 

[tuckerintensity]

Kadri reveals that hockey is a business, shocking.

 

[notbias]

First point, Domi is like Bunting is that he's a prick and hopefully is getting under the other teams skin. That he's also willing to chuck 'em to stick up for teammates is a bonus. It's what we lacked a lot of over the years.

Second point, no I haven't. I have on numerous occasions made sure to credit Dubas for the toughness he's brought in and how they were acquired. Granted my final paragraph didn't make that distinction but I did give him credit within that post and in earlier posts both in this thread and elsewhere. I can't help it if you missed that. If you want a just Treliving only additions then it's Domi, Dewar, Lorentz, Reaves, Tanev, OEL, and Benoit.

Third, I completely disagree with Kase. In his one season here he paced for fewer hits than Domi had last season. In no world is he a tougher player.

Holl? The guy who got beat up by RNH? Really? Igor threw the body around a decent amount but Dubas didn't retain him so big deal. OEL plays with an edge, lays some pretty big hits, and gets in the opponents face. Holl may have caught guys a few times too but he was never aggressive in his playstyle.

Giordano is closer to Tanev, both men are willing to to whatever it takes to defend, including recklessly throwing their bodies in front of dozens of pucks. You'll notice I didn't list Tanev either but I suppose his and Gio's shot-blocking prowess should get them added. But then I would point out that Gio was past his prime and on the downswing of his career, just like other tough players Dubas brought in.

I think I'm pretty consistent so agree to disagree.

I knew the Holl one would be where you got inconsistent, it's why I added him.

Not winning a fight is not exactly how I'd remove someone from the "toughness" convo.

This would likely remove guys like Benoit who seems to lose all his fights (he is fighting heavyweights and isn't a huge guy, not ragging on him).

Domi doesn't do great against most decent fighters, Gio is probably a better fighter.

Tavares, Sandin, Kerfoot, and Holmberg are all tougher between the whistles than Domi, and it is not really close, you can use them over Kase in that example if you want.

The criteria are far too subjective, and I think it has more to do with your feelings than anything else.

This isn't a dig at how you view players, but a lot of people can't keep the criteria of what tough is consistent because it is more of a feeling to people than something that can be measured.

We've always had guys willing to fight, hit, lay their body on the line, do whatever they can to win, people just don't like the ones we had, which is fine, that is a different discussion though.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Kerfoot brought a lot of laughs: Celebrating goals before the puck crossed the line, and chasing his stick outside the blue line on a penalty kill situation.

He's a fourth liner now and probably always was that type of player.

 

[notbias]

Kerfoot brought a lot of laughs: Celebrating goals before the puck crossed the line, and chasing his stick outside the blue line on a penalty kill situation.

He's a fourth liner now and probably always was that type of player.

If Kerfoot was a 4th liner, why do people care about Kadri leaving?

He barely outproduced a 4th liner in the playoffs... it makes no sense.

 

[robertmac43]

Book's incredible. You can tell the guys just bleeds blue and wishes things likely turned out otherwise.

Sounds like management didn't handle the communication piece well, but ultimately the trade was always going to happen after that second suspension...

 

[diceman934]

If Kerfoot was a 4th liner, why do people care about Kadri leaving?

He barely outproduced a 4th liner in the playoffs... it makes no sense.

What 4th liner gets 20 pts in 30 playoff games? None is the answer. You hate him I get it but do not lie about his stats...those were as a Leaf. In Colorado he was over a point per game in the playoffs.

 

[notbias]

What 4th liner gets 20 pts in 30 playoff games? None is the answer. You hate him I get it but do not lie about his stats...those were as a Leaf. In Colorado he was over a point per game in the playoffs.

10 points in 19 games, only 3 goals.

Those are Kadri's stats, no need to lie.

 

[Stephen]

I’m curious for the day Kyle speaks out fully on what deals he felt controlled by or were nixed via Shanahan. Just based on Kadri’s accounts and even the rumours after the series. It feels like Kadri moving was a decision made above Kyle Dubas. I believe that call was made by Shanahan. The timing of the deal felt rushed and everything too. Still a bad deal by Dubas in hindsight but I’d be curious to see who ultimately decided the Leafs need to move on from Kadri.

Personally not all that curious to hear from Kyle and get little tidbits on why he was handcuffed into making poor decisions from Lou or Shanahan.