Details Surrounding Nazem Kadri Trade

[SmoggyTwinkles]

that's pretty much what happened , lol

what i would like to know considering the reports/rumors of the Shanny and Dumpster relationship souring during the reg season is was it Shanny that wanted to extend Dumpster or was it the board that wanted to bring him back until he pulled his douche move

I don't know but I freakin' love the idea of Shanny saying "there's the door" and pointing to it.

Fills me with warmth.

 

[ULF_55]

So Kadri had a 10 team NTC that Lamoriello gave him.

So that left 20 teams that he could be traded to.

Brodie was the primary target, but that was blocked.
So are we thinking Barrie was the primary target in the Avs deal?
Barrie coming off 15 goals and 59 points.
Barrie was 7th. in D scoring that year.
Turned 28 and fell off a cliff.
Kerfoot was the Jankowski replacement in the deal.

Didn't like the Barrie part of the deal, Barrie was who we thought he was... da-Bears

Perhaps that was the best offer anyone of those 20 teams would agree to?

Best thing that happened to Kadri was getting traded off the DOPS microscope stage.

 

[Maple Leaf]

I would have kept kadri, stanley cup chamption

 

[JT AM da real deal]

In his new book "Dreamer: My Life On The Edge" Nazem Kadri goes into detail about the circumstances around the trade that saw him leave Toronto. Suffice to say then GM Kyle Dubas and the rest of the Leafs brass at the time come out looking pretty duplicitous.

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https://x.com/i/web/status/1849183278177149178

Now I'm not going to front, I wanted Kadri dealt after his second straight playoff suspension. However, the way with which the Leafs went about doing it is so scummy. Why lie to the guy and say he's still part of the future here when you were planning to deal him? Why are Calgary players and management brought in to try and convince him to waive his NTC? You're own players get confused and the guy you lied to has to cover your ass? And all this when the dude's wife is about to have a kid and thinks he's not going anywhere.

All this secrecy and sneaking to ultimately rush a trade for Tyson Barrie and Alex Kerfoot.

Hate to say it but hockey maybe da worst sport for what I call double talk .. most who have played have gone through similar experiences .. we eat our own in hockey .. not a nice thing to say but it has been going on for a hundred years .. kadri just bringing it to light which is also abnormal .. but this actually is not a real bad one at all

 

[Menzinger]

I’m curious for the day Kyle speaks out fully on what deals he felt controlled by or were nixed via Shanahan. Just based on Kadri’s accounts and even the rumours after the series. It feels like Kadri moving was a decision made above Kyle Dubas. I believe that call was made by Shanahan. The timing of the deal felt rushed and everything too. Still a bad deal by Dubas in hindsight but I’d be curious to see who ultimately decided the Leafs need to move on from Kadri.

I wouldn't be surprised that was the case. For example,.while nothing was ever confirmed/leaked to the media but Ive always suspected Shanny was the main driver of trading Kessel. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the case with Kadri (Dubas' obviously bares responsibility for the outcome of the trade/negotiation though regardless)

 

[Ciao]

Oh, boo hoo.

It was a shitty trade for the Leafs, but Kadri has no cause for complaints. He was traded to a team not on his no-trade list. Like, big deal?

 

[notbias]

He was pretty bad at it. Muzzin is the only effective one he brought in who was here for a while under him. The problems with Dubas were twofold. First, he failed to identify toughness that was useful, either getting guys too old or just plain not good. Second, the Leafs didn't value toughness and pushed a pacifist mentality so that even when those guys were brought in they were joining a club that never engaged physically, so what was the point? You bring in Nick Foligno and one of his first games Keefe is telling him not to fight? The toughness Dubas brought in did not adequately fit or replace what we lost over his time here.


Here's a look at how Dubas handled toughness during his 5 seasons at the helm:

2018-19 Komarov and Martin were lost and while I get that they're bottom-six players and some might not value what they brought, their games are valued and they played a role on Islanders teams that went deeper in the playoffs than this franchise has in decades. Polak was also lost that season too, leaving us with a soft D-Corps until Muzzin was brought in. Kadri is on an island, tries to do too much against a Boston that was just bullying us and the rest is history.

2019-20 Even more toughness is lost with the Kadri trade, which would be fine if it was a good trade but it very much wasn't. We got a terrible fit in Charmin-soft Barrie and a tweener in Kerfoot. He attached Clifford to the Campbell trade but had to trade Moore to do it so at best that's a wash. Leafs had their worst season of the Matthews era, though that's not entirely because of a lack of toughness. Babcock was a jackass and as a whole the team was just worse off. Also this was the season of the infamous Marchment for Malgin trade, a microcosm of Dubas' philosophy and blind spot.

2020-21 He brings in a past his prime Simmonds and signs Bogosian and Vesey to one year deals for bottom pair and middle six grit. Simmonds was cooked, Vesey didn't find a place here and was waiver fodder, and Bogosian was good, fair play there. The Nash trade on it's own is ok but bringing in an old and injury-prone Foligno to essentially block any chance of regular season playing time because of the cap was terrible, not to mention Foligno was just bad. These moves also didn't work because these guys were basically mercenaries with expiring contracts. If there's no real will from the core guys or coaching staff to mix it up or fight back why should they? I know Foligno and Simmonds tried but it wasn't enough. He does have the sense to draft Knies.

2021-22 Out the door goes Hyman, Bogosian, Foligno, and Nash. Simmonds is re-signed to be an enforcer but he was the least effective toughness. Bunting and Ritchie are signed and while Bunting isn't strong or tough he at least plays like an agitator and got in opponents faces. Ritchie just sucked. He trades for Lyubushkin but that's it on the toughness front. This season was probably the softest the forward group had ever been. Kerfoot, Mikheyev, Engvall, Kase, and Kampf were all the same type of temperament and similar playstyle and they littered the bottom nine. Bunting was a rat, Spezza had heart, and Simmonds tried to enforce but that was nowhere near enough. Dubas signs McMann to an NHL deal at the end of the year.

2022-23 Lyubushkin is out, no great loss. Dubas does a bit of work around the edges, bringing in Aube-Kubel and Aston-Reese for the bottom six (only one of those guys worked out) and Benn for defensive depth. There's some softness subtraction with Mikheyev and Kase leaving but he makes sure to give Malgin one more shot to try and show that there was something there now that Marchment has taken off elsewhere. Malgin experiment fails and he's traded for depth. Things look to be more of the same old same old until Dubas pulls off the biggest TDL this franchise has seen since 2003, bringing in O'Reilly, Acciari, McCabe, Lafferty, Schenn, and Gustaffson. The first five guys all played with an edge and brought more to the table than just run of the mill pugilism. O'Reilly was a 2C, Acciari was a defensively sound 3rd line wrecking ball, McCabe was a tough top four defenseman, Lafferty was a gritty 4C penalty-killer, and Schenn was a heavy third pairing defenseman that blossomed into more here and played on the top pair with Rielly. Knies is also promoted and helps fill the hole left by Hyman.

None of the toughness Dubas tried to bring in beforehand outside of Muzzin even came close to the quality that he found that trade deadline. 4 previous seasons he couldn't identify any gritty players who fit well and played outside of the bottom pair or 4th line. It's absurd but it's true. This came at a great cost mind you but it led to the only series win this franchise has seen.

Now with Treliving we've got a defence that's full of mean SOBs with McCabe, OEL, and Benoit. The forward group has a good amount of physicality and nastiness that can actually play with Knies, McMann, Domi, Lorentz, and Dewar. Reaves isn't in the ideal playoff lineup but there's something to be said about his reputation and the camaraderie he brings. Dubas brought in Clifford and Simmonds so it's not like he was completely against enforcers himself.

Define toughness, because you brought up Domi who will fight and sucker punch guys and then never hit or do anything tough in between the whistles.

You also just listed a bunch of people who Dubas brought in: McCabe, Knies, and McMann, and somehow attributed them to Treliving.

I honestly don't want to read through all this without a definition of soft/tough, sorry, you are just all over the play, you listed Kase as soft but he was tougher between the whistles than Domi for example.

If you are including someone like OEL in this as a mean D you may as well list Ozighano, Holl, or Gio.

It's just not consistent.

Why do you need stats to have a conversation? Can't we go off what we saw and continued to see under KD?

Are four first-round exits and a feeble second-round exit under KD, not good enough indications that the team's mentality relative to talent wasn't sufficient?

You did say in a prior post that "tough guys" were acquired, so what's the issue?

ok, here is my response to an opinion-based post.

I disagree and think that they were mentally tough, prove me wrong.

 

[hamzarocks]

Man dubas sucked here and he continues to suck for the Pens

Crazy his fanboys still haven't gotten over him. His tenure was a complete failure.

Time to live in the present, if treliving loses R1 this year he should be on hot seat and fired next year barring a cup. These GMs/coaches/players need to deliver

 

[hamzarocks]

So Kadri had a 10 team NTC that Lamoriello gave him.

So that left 20 teams that he could be traded to.

Brodie was the primary target, but that was blocked.
So are we thinking Barrie was the primary target in the Avs deal?
Barrie coming off 15 goals and 59 points.
Barrie was 7th. in D scoring that year.
Turned 28 and fell off a cliff.
Kerfoot was the Jankowski replacement in the deal.

Didn't like the Barrie part of the deal, Barrie was who we thought he was... da-Bears

Perhaps that was the best offer anyone of those 20 teams would agree to?

Best thing that happened to Kadri was getting traded off the DOPS microscope stage.

The bigger issue was Dubas didnt consider building a team for the long-term

He targetted 1 year UFAs Brodie and Barrie

Barrie if he popped for 60-70 pts would still be a flawed 2-way guy (horrific d-player) and would want 8-9M and we had to extend Andersen soon (remember he was being talked a stop 7-8 goalie and guy.who would get 6-7M) and would make Rielly less valuable at a 5M caphit hurting his play and trade value

If we couldnt bank on Kadri bouncing back to form at 4.5Mx3, we needed to target an impact D with 2 or 3 year term who would be part of the team for an extended period of time and compliment Rielly rather than compete against him directly

Kerfoot getting gifted 3.5Mx4 was horrible too. A vanilla and bland player, with little positive offensive skillset, and zero grit/physicality/character getting assigned 4 year term and a larger role than deserved (2LW spot with 91 and 88). Instead of targetting a stronger and better fit player we locked in a player who didnt bring 3.5M worth of value for 4 years ajd Dubas insisted on retaining him to try and not make this Kadri deal look worse than it already was

Complete lack of rostwr building skills and inexperience by a chump who was way in over his head

 

[ULF_55]

The bigger issue was Dubas didnt consider building a team for the long-term

He targetted 1 year UFAs Brodie and Barrie

Barrie if he popped for 60-70 pts would still be a flawed 2-way guy (horrific d-player) and would want 8-9M and we had to extend Andersen soon (remember he was being talked a stop 7-8 goalie and guy.who would get 6-7M) and would make Rielly less valuable at a 5M caphit hurting his play and trade value

If we couldnt bank on Kadri bouncing back to form at 4.5Mx3, we needed to target an impact D with 2 or 3 year term who would be part of the team for an extended period of time and compliment Rielly rather than compete against him directly

Kerfoot getting gifted 3.5Mx4 was horrible too. A vanilla and bland player, with little positive offensive skillset, and zero grit/physicality/character getting assigned 4 year term and a larger role than deserved (2LW spot with 91 and 88). Instead of targetting a stronger and better fit player we locked in a player who didnt bring 3.5M worth of value for 4 years ajd Dubas insisted on retaining him to try and not make this Kadri deal look worse than it already was

Complete lack of rostwr building skills and inexperience by a chump who was way in over his head

There was much more wrong with the team than Kerfoot being on it.