Value of: DET cost to upgrade Copp Petry to Schenn Krug

[lanceuppercut75]

to St Louis Blues :
Copp (3y @ $5.6250m)
Petry (1y @ $2.3438m) ---> 1 yr rental / stop-gap
Maatta (1y @ $3.0000m) ---> 1 yr rental / stop-gap (cap dump)
pick/prospect/multiple ---> you tell me what makes sense
total cap = $10.9688m (opens up $2.0312m plus extra D on roster)

to Detroit Red Wings :
Schenn (4y @ $6.5000m)
Krug (3y @ $6.5000m)
total cap = $13.0000m (taking on $2.0312m plus Edvinsson cap hit)

This is IMO good for Detroit now and good for St Louis in the longer term. The questions are: does STL realize they likely aren't in an ideal position to win a cup next summer? Would they be willing to take a temporary step back for a better long-term? What would it cost Detroit to swap these players out? Which pick/prospect (or multiple) is enough to make St Louis agree to do this?

( I know "Copp is negative value" comments are coming. Okay, so, question remains: what's the cost to do this?)

For Detroit, they'd probably like an upgrade at 2C without logjamming Kasper and Danielson. Schenn can play LW, and I've seen Blues fans saying that they hope STL can move him to LW sooner or later. DET has the option to play Schenn at center now and then LW later when Kasper or Danielson are ready for the NHL. Compher can play RW as well, so the plan to have Larkin Kasper and Danielson down the middle still works here. Maatta leaving opens up a permanent spot for Edvinsson. Krug is a big upgrade on Petry obviously. One of Walman Edvinsson Johansson Chiarot would move to RD for now. Overall, the D looks way stronger after this trade.

For St Louis, they've been looking to move on from Krug while also getting some value. This move does make sense for their D long-term, but makes them worse this year, which some might consider an issue. I don't think they're a real contender this year though. The RHD is locked in until 2027 with Parayko Faulk and some third guy, which is fine. No big RD prospects coming. The LD starts as Leddy and then in any order (based on performance) Perunovich Maatta Tucker. Loof and Lindstein will be coming, but Maatta is a just a 1 year stop-gap contract, and Leddy has only 2 years left. Copp is a downgrade on Schenn, but is cheaper and 1 less year. With Dean and Bolduc coming now or soon and Dvorsky, Snuggerud, Stenberg on the way, a shorter contract for lower cap top 9 forward probably fits the plan better. Copp can also play wing if pure center kids make the team. I think the most logical "plus" STL gets in this trade is a LHD prospect to bolster Perunovich Tucker Loof Lindstein as the LHD group of the future. A RHD prospect would be logical as well, but DET doesn't have any good ones they would be willing to trade, as far as I know.

Krug - Seider
Walman - Edvinsson
(Johansson/Chiarot) - Holl
7 = (Johansson/Chiarot)
Walman, Holl and Chiarot expire in 2026.
DET considers buying out Holl or Chiarot maybe next summer (?)
Wallinder, Buium (LHD) and Sandin-Pelikka (RHD) in the pipeline.

Leddy - Parayko
(Maatta/Perunovich) - Faulk
(Maatta/Perunovich) - Petry
7 = Tucker
Maatta and Petry expire in 2025.
Leddy expires in 2026. Faulk in 2027.
Lindstein and Loof (both LHD) in the pipeline.

( EDITED this original post to add Petry and remove Holl )

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[Hobnobs]

If wings is trading Copp and Holl while trying to get Blues captain and best offensive D. It's gonna cost more than it's worth in terms of draft picks and prospects.

 

[Blanick]

The Blues just named Schenn captain last summer. I can't imagine Army would entertain trading him for anything more than a overpayment. Krug on the other hand should very much be available, just need him to waive his NTC. I would do Krug for Maatta as a base, with a defensive prospect added, maybe Gibson?

 

[Celtic Note]

The Blues just named Schenn captain last summer. I can't imagine Army would entertain trading him for anything more than an overpayment. Krug on the other hand should very much be available, just need him to waive his NTC. I would do Krug for Maatta as a base, with a defensive prospect added, maybe Gibson?

If the Blues are Building for the future, why rule out Schenn?

 

[nbwingsfan]

If wings is trading Copp and Holl while trying to get Blues captain and best offensive D. It's gonna cost more than it's worth in terms of draft picks and prospects.

Schenn has some decent value for sure but “best offensive D” doesn’t mean a whole lot when he’s also very bad defensively and isn’t actually producing all that much offensively either. Especially with that contract.


With that said, Copp and Petry also have negative value so yeah, this doesn’t make a ton of sense

 

[Celtic Note]

to St Louis Blues :
Copp (3y @ $5.6250m)
Petry (1y @ $2.3438m) ---> 1 yr rental / stop-gap
Maatta (1y @ $3.0000m) ---> 1 yr rental / stop-gap (cap dump)
pick/prospect/multiple ---> you tell me what makes sense
total cap = $10.9688m (opens up $2.0312m plus extra D on roster)

to Detroit Red Wings :
Schenn (4y @ $6.5000m)
Krug (3y @ $6.5000m)
total cap = $13.0000m (taking on $2.0312m plus Edvinsson cap hit)

This is IMO good for Detroit now and good for St Louis in the longer term. The questions are: does STL realize they likely aren't in an ideal position to win a cup next summer? Would they be willing to take a temporary step back for a better long-term? What would it cost Detroit to swap these players out? Which pick/prospect (or multiple) is enough to make St Louis agree to do this?

( I know "Copp is negative value" comments are coming. Okay, so, question remains: what's the cost to do this?)

For Detroit, they'd probably like an upgrade at 2C without logjamming Kasper and Danielson. Schenn can play LW, and I've seen Blues fans saying that they hope STL can move him to LW sooner or later. DET has the option to play Schenn at center now and then LW later when Kasper or Danielson are ready for the NHL. Compher can play RW as well, so the plan to have Larkin Kasper and Danielson down the middle still works here. Maatta leaving opens up a permanent spot for Edvinsson. Krug is a big upgrade on Petry obviously. One of Walman Edvinsson Johansson Chiarot would move to RD for now. Overall, the D looks way stronger after this trade.

For St Louis, they've been looking to move on from Krug while also getting some value. This move does make sense for their D long-term, but makes them worse this year, which some might consider an issue. I don't think they're a real contender this year though. The RHD is locked in until 2027 with Parayko Faulk and some third guy, which is fine. No big RD prospects coming. The LD starts as Leddy and then in any order (based on performance) Perunovich Maatta Tucker. Loof and Lindstein will be coming, but Maatta is a just a 1 year stop-gap contract, and Leddy has only 2 years left. Copp is a downgrade on Schenn, but is cheaper and 1 less year. With Dean and Bolduc coming now or soon and Dvorsky, Snuggerud, Stenberg on the way, a shorter contract for lower cap top 9 forward probably fits the plan better. Copp can also play wing if pure center kids make the team. I think the most logical "plus" STL gets in this trade is a LHD prospect to bolster Perunovich Tucker Loof Lindstein as the LHD group of the future. A RHD prospect would be logical as well, but DET doesn't have any good ones they would be willing to trade, as far as I know.

Krug - Seider
Walman - Edvinsson
(Johansson/Chiarot) - Holl
7 = (Johansson/Chiarot)
Walman, Holl and Chiarot expire in 2026.
DET considers buying out Holl or Chiarot maybe next summer (?)
Wallinder, Buium (LHD) and Sandin-Pelikka (RHD) in the pipeline.

Leddy - Parayko
(Maatta/Perunovich) - Faulk
(Maatta/Perunovich) - Petry
7 = Tucker
Maatta and Petry expire in 2025.
Leddy expires in 2026. Faulk in 2027.
Lindstein and Loof (both LHD) in the pipeline.

( EDITED this original post to add Petry and remove Holl )

I feel like the pick/prospect going to the Blues is going to need to be pretty decent given the rest of the return and that’s not to say the Blues players going the other way are high value assets. But what’s coming back to STL is a lot of downgraded skill. The contracts might be a positive. I have no problem going for a better pick in next years draft as a Blues fan, but management doesn’t seem super interested in a significant decline (right or wrong).

Schenn will have value to Armstrong. That is one of “his guys”. That in itself is why I would expect there to be a decent asset in return. What that return is? Not sure.

I do think there is a Krug to DET move to be made. I also would t rule out Schenn. It might be worth looking at those separately from a value standpoint to see what an overall or separate packages would be.

I do appreciate your effort to look at things from both side of the coin. This is a substantially better effort than a majorly of proposals.

 

[SantosHalper]

Yzerman ain't interested on 5'5'' defenseman and Krug has NTC starting from 2025, which locks him up for his worst years. Seider gets PP1 role back next season and Walman or Edvinsson plays in 2nd unit, i don't really see a point to pay assets to get Krug.

Wings have "Schenn" at home, JT Compher, whose younger and cheaper. Schenn also have NTC starting 2025, which locks up 6,5 million $ until 2028. Lots of ELCs end in 2026/27 and possibly Seider's & Raymond's bridge deals, if Yzerman goes that route. Schenn wouldn't get bigger role than Compher in Detroit, his production would be the same as Compher's. Copp has M-NTC and since he is a local boy, i don't see him wanting to go to STL. Same for Petry, Michigan-native and NMC, so he ain't going anywhere anymore.

But a deal around Määttä is possible.

 

[norrisnick]

Short of being packaged with multiple 1sts and/or Thomas there is no way the Wings are touching Krug and Schenn.

This is a trainwreck all the way down.

Copp @ 5.6M for 3 years > Schenn at 6.5M for 4 years
Petry @ 2.3M for 1 year >> Krug at 6.5M for 3 years

 

[PocketNines]

I do not think that Krug's NTC kicks in during 2025

 

[Shwabeal]

Krug has NTC starting from 2025, which locks him up for his worst years.

Schenn also have NTC starting 2025, which locks up 6,5 million $ until 2028.

Their NTCs aren't starting in those years. They're reducing to 15 team lists in those years.

People really need to learn how to read players' capfreindly pages.

 

[iago]

to St Louis Blues :
Copp (3y @ $5.6250m)
Petry (1y @ $2.3438m) ---> 1 yr rental / stop-gap
Maatta (1y @ $3.0000m) ---> 1 yr rental / stop-gap (cap dump)
pick/prospect/multiple ---> you tell me what makes sense
total cap = $10.9688m (opens up $2.0312m plus extra D on roster)

to Detroit Red Wings :
Schenn (4y @ $6.5000m)
Krug (3y @ $6.5000m)
total cap = $13.0000m (taking on $2.0312m plus Edvinsson cap hit)

This is IMO good for Detroit now and good for St Louis in the longer term. The questions are: does STL realize they likely aren't in an ideal position to win a cup next summer? Would they be willing to take a temporary step back for a better long-term? What would it cost Detroit to swap these players out? Which pick/prospect (or multiple) is enough to make St Louis agree to do this?

( I know "Copp is negative value" comments are coming. Okay, so, question remains: what's the cost to do this?)

For Detroit, they'd probably like an upgrade at 2C without logjamming Kasper and Danielson. Schenn can play LW, and I've seen Blues fans saying that they hope STL can move him to LW sooner or later. DET has the option to play Schenn at center now and then LW later when Kasper or Danielson are ready for the NHL. Compher can play RW as well, so the plan to have Larkin Kasper and Danielson down the middle still works here. Maatta leaving opens up a permanent spot for Edvinsson. Krug is a big upgrade on Petry obviously. One of Walman Edvinsson Johansson Chiarot would move to RD for now. Overall, the D looks way stronger after this trade.

For St Louis, they've been looking to move on from Krug while also getting some value. This move does make sense for their D long-term, but makes them worse this year, which some might consider an issue. I don't think they're a real contender this year though. The RHD is locked in until 2027 with Parayko Faulk and some third guy, which is fine. No big RD prospects coming. The LD starts as Leddy and then in any order (based on performance) Perunovich Maatta Tucker. Loof and Lindstein will be coming, but Maatta is a just a 1 year stop-gap contract, and Leddy has only 2 years left. Copp is a downgrade on Schenn, but is cheaper and 1 less year. With Dean and Bolduc coming now or soon and Dvorsky, Snuggerud, Stenberg on the way, a shorter contract for lower cap top 9 forward probably fits the plan better. Copp can also play wing if pure center kids make the team. I think the most logical "plus" STL gets in this trade is a LHD prospect to bolster Perunovich Tucker Loof Lindstein as the LHD group of the future. A RHD prospect would be logical as well, but DET doesn't have any good ones they would be willing to trade, as far as I know.

Krug - Seider
Walman - Edvinsson
(Johansson/Chiarot) - Holl
7 = (Johansson/Chiarot)
Walman, Holl and Chiarot expire in 2026.
DET considers buying out Holl or Chiarot maybe next summer (?)
Wallinder, Buium (LHD) and Sandin-Pelikka (RHD) in the pipeline.

Leddy - Parayko
(Maatta/Perunovich) - Faulk
(Maatta/Perunovich) - Petry
7 = Tucker
Maatta and Petry expire in 2025.
Leddy expires in 2026. Faulk in 2027.
Lindstein and Loof (both LHD) in the pipeline.

( EDITED this original post to add Petry and remove Holl )

One problem with is proposal- Schenn/Krug are not upgrades. Xchenn's stats were almost identical to Compher's last year,so no real upgrade there. And Krug is a borderline 4/5 defe seman, and would add nothing to Detroits D corp.

 

[GoldenSeal]

If the picks are right, I'd do this and run.

 

[BKarchitect]

Schenn, despite his decline, is still comfortably the best piece here but this is absolutely horrific financially for the Wings.

Why they would want to turn Copp into an additional more expensive year of an older forward while liquidating the expiring deals of Petry and others into 2 additional seasons of Krug, at $6.5 million per year is beyond comprehension.

If you really want to overpay a tiny, aging offensive only defenseman, just give that contract to Ghost. At least he’s a bit younger. I’m sure you wouldn’t have to twist his arm to go $6.5x3 lol.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

But a deal around Määttä is possible.

Do this make any sense? Or is it just insane?

HOLL (2 years, $3.4m)
MAATTA (1 year, $3.0m)
maybe DET adds something, maybe not ?

for

KRUG (3 years, $6.5m)

I know STL doesn't actually want Holl, but my thinking is that they get to move on from Krug and his big cap hit for 3 years in exchange for a right handed 3rd pair guy who makes 3 million less and for 2 years instead of 3. STL doesn't have a RHD prospect coming up soon, so Holl just kind of chills on the third pair for 2 years blocking nobody from coming up. STL was going to probably sign a 3rd pair RD in free agency anyways. Maatta replaces Krug on the ice as a downgrade stop-gap LD for one year, and then STL has flexibility at LD to either bring in somebody or give Loof or Lindstein a spot. The main point being, they aren't locked in and logjammed with Krug until 2027.

 

[BKarchitect]

Do this make any sense? Or is it just insane?

HOLL (2 years, $3.4m)
MAATTA (1 year, $3.0m)
maybe DET adds something, maybe not ?

for

KRUG (3 years, $6.5m)

I know STL doesn't actually want Holl, but my thinking is that they get to move on from Krug and his big cap hit for 3 years in exchange for a right handed 3rd pair guy who makes 3 million less and for 2 years instead of 3. STL doesn't have a RHD prospect coming up soon, so Holl just kind of chills on the third pair for 2 years blocking nobody from coming up. STL was going to probably sign a 3rd pair RD in free agency anyways. Maatta replaces Krug on the ice as a downgrade stop-gap LD for one year, and then STL has flexibility at LD to either bring in somebody or give Loof or Lindstein a spot. The main point being, they aren't locked in and logjammed with Krug until 2027.

Why do you want Krug so bad? Just re-sign Ghost for probably half the price.

I guess I get trying to alleviate a log-jamb next season but even if you convinced the Blues to take two pylons back - your still stuck with Krug’s more expensive deal for more years - so right when you hope the Wings are in prime contention they are gonna be saddled with a 36 year-old, AHL caliber Krug making $6.5 million. Why would you bring that upon your franchise finances?

 

[Oddbob]

to St Louis Blues :
Copp (3y @ $5.6250m)
Petry (1y @ $2.3438m) ---> 1 yr rental / stop-gap
Maatta (1y @ $3.0000m) ---> 1 yr rental / stop-gap (cap dump)
pick/prospect/multiple ---> you tell me what makes sense
total cap = $10.9688m (opens up $2.0312m plus extra D on roster)

to Detroit Red Wings :
Schenn (4y @ $6.5000m)
Krug (3y @ $6.5000m)
total cap = $13.0000m (taking on $2.0312m plus Edvinsson cap hit)

This is IMO good for Detroit now and good for St Louis in the longer term. The questions are: does STL realize they likely aren't in an ideal position to win a cup next summer? Would they be willing to take a temporary step back for a better long-term? What would it cost Detroit to swap these players out? Which pick/prospect (or multiple) is enough to make St Louis agree to do this?

( I know "Copp is negative value" comments are coming. Okay, so, question remains: what's the cost to do this?)

For Detroit, they'd probably like an upgrade at 2C without logjamming Kasper and Danielson. Schenn can play LW, and I've seen Blues fans saying that they hope STL can move him to LW sooner or later. DET has the option to play Schenn at center now and then LW later when Kasper or Danielson are ready for the NHL. Compher can play RW as well, so the plan to have Larkin Kasper and Danielson down the middle still works here. Maatta leaving opens up a permanent spot for Edvinsson. Krug is a big upgrade on Petry obviously. One of Walman Edvinsson Johansson Chiarot would move to RD for now. Overall, the D looks way stronger after this trade.

For St Louis, they've been looking to move on from Krug while also getting some value. This move does make sense for their D long-term, but makes them worse this year, which some might consider an issue. I don't think they're a real contender this year though. The RHD is locked in until 2027 with Parayko Faulk and some third guy, which is fine. No big RD prospects coming. The LD starts as Leddy and then in any order (based on performance) Perunovich Maatta Tucker. Loof and Lindstein will be coming, but Maatta is a just a 1 year stop-gap contract, and Leddy has only 2 years left. Copp is a downgrade on Schenn, but is cheaper and 1 less year. With Dean and Bolduc coming now or soon and Dvorsky, Snuggerud, Stenberg on the way, a shorter contract for lower cap top 9 forward probably fits the plan better. Copp can also play wing if pure center kids make the team. I think the most logical "plus" STL gets in this trade is a LHD prospect to bolster Perunovich Tucker Loof Lindstein as the LHD group of the future. A RHD prospect would be logical as well, but DET doesn't have any good ones they would be willing to trade, as far as I know.

Krug - Seider
Walman - Edvinsson
(Johansson/Chiarot) - Holl
7 = (Johansson/Chiarot)
Walman, Holl and Chiarot expire in 2026.
DET considers buying out Holl or Chiarot maybe next summer (?)
Wallinder, Buium (LHD) and Sandin-Pelikka (RHD) in the pipeline.

Leddy - Parayko
(Maatta/Perunovich) - Faulk
(Maatta/Perunovich) - Petry
7 = Tucker
Maatta and Petry expire in 2025.
Leddy expires in 2026. Faulk in 2027.
Lindstein and Loof (both LHD) in the pipeline.

( EDITED this original post to add Petry and remove Holl )

So we add a year and get the same level player (Schenn) when Wings fans already hate the 3 years left on Copp? Why are you proposing crap trades for a team you aren't a fan of? Krug is also a no go.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Why do you want Krug so bad? Just re-sign Ghost for probably half the price.

I guess I get trying to alleviate a log-jamb next season but even if you convinced the Blues to take two pylons back - your still stuck with Krug’s more expensive deal for more years - so right when you hope the Wings are in prime contention they are gonna be saddled with a 36 year-old, AHL caliber Krug making $6.5 million. Why would you bring that upon your franchise finances?

Think Ghost played himself into a multi-year extension and could see Krug with retention as a creative way to replace that production. Krug blocked a trade to the Flyers last offseason but would probably waive for Detroit.

Armstrong and Yzerman have a good rapport so could easily see a deal to be made between the two teams.

Chiarot, Petry, Holl, Maata, Fabbri, and Husso are all players with 1-2 year remaining that the Blues could take on to clear cap for Detroit so they can pursue upgrades.

Would prefer to keep Copp and Schenn out of the deal.

 

[BleedBlue14]

While moving Krug is something the Blues probably do want to do. I think it’s hard to find the right deal.

Our defense outside of Krug sorely lacks puck moving ability. Krug is still a really good puck mover. Moving him for a combination of Maata and Holl is pretty problematic.

In the stage we’re in I’d still probably entertain it. But with a d group of

Leddy - Parayko
Maatta- Faulk
Perunovich - Holl

It’s hard to imagine we did much aside from cut a year off of the contract and become an extremely poor team moving the puck and in the powerplay.

It’s hard to say Perunovich is ready to take that role over, he’s had an injury every season he’s been a pro.

As for the OP with Schenn and Krug, I’m still not against it. But it’s going to come with 2 very bad seasons and I’m not sure the Blues Front Office is looking to go that way.

 

[SantosHalper]

Their NTCs aren't starting in those years. They're reducing to 15 team lists in those years.

People really need to learn how to read players' capfreindly pages.

I don't really care about the exact specifics of their NTCs. My point was that they have one and if they get traded to Detroit, they would most likely stay in Detroit for remaining time. Players in that age ain't happy to move every other year. And we need that cap room for someone else than declining Schenn and Krug.

HOLL (2 years, $3.4m)
MAATTA (1 year, $3.0m)
maybe DET adds something, maybe not ?

for

KRUG (3 years, $6.5m)

I'd still say that Krug is too small for Yzerman's liking but if the price right(cheap), he might pull the trigger.

 

[Hobnobs]

Think Ghost played himself into a multi-year extension and could see Krug with retention as a creative way to replace that production. Krug blocked a trade to the Flyers last offseason but would probably waive for Detroit.

Armstrong and Yzerman have a good rapport so could easily see a deal to be made between the two teams.

Chiarot, Petry, Holl, Maata, Fabbri, and Husso are all players with 1-2 year remaining that the Blues could take on to clear cap for Detroit so they can pursue upgrades.

Would prefer to keep Copp and Schenn out of the deal.

I think Ghost is resignable at a similar contract as Krug. You never know but he seems to like it here. But we'll see. In any case the original proposal is just weird anyway you look at it.

I'd rather off load Holl with a sweetener than trading for more capspace with a defenseman that would be a downgrade to Ghost.

Not even sure why Wings fans are so hell bent on getting rid of Määttä...

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Not even sure why Wings fans are so hell bent on getting rid of Määttä...

It's due to Edvinsson being NHL ready NOW and DET having a LHD log-jam.

Wallinder and Buium will also be ready soon-ish at LHD, in the next 2 seasons.

DET has on the roster :
1 - Walman who they want to keep for now
2 - Chiarot who they can't trade without paying a team to take him
3 - Albert Johansson who is young, ready and can't go to AHL without waivers
4 - Maatta who is fine but isn't in their long-term plans

One of those 4 needs to go to make room for Edvinsson, and the other three make way less sense to trade out than Maatta for the above reasons.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

I’d be more interested in Trading Holl, Petry and a better pick/prospect for Justin Faulk

 

[Hobnobs]

It's due to Edvinsson being NHL ready NOW and DET having a LHD log-jam.

Wallinder and Buium will also be ready soon-ish at LHD, in the next 2 seasons.

DET has on the roster :
1 - Walman who they want to keep for now
2 - Chiarot who they can't trade without paying a team to take him
3 - Albert Johansson who is young, ready and can't go to AHL without waivers
4 - Maatta who is fine but isn't in their long-term plans

One of those 4 needs to go to make room for Edvinsson, and the other three make way less sense to trade out than Maatta for the above reasons.

So no depth at LD and completly screwed if Johansson is not fully ready or to bench Chiarot during his putrid streaks?

Also we could just bury Chiarot and/or buy him out (if needed) next summer.

 

[SantosHalper]

So no depth at LD and completly screwed if Johansson is not fully ready or to bench Chiarot during his putrid streaks?

Also we could just bury Chiarot and/or buy him out (if needed) next summer.

Chiarot gets much bigger minutes from the coaching staff than Määttä. Määttä plays quite sheltered role, if there is a desicion between the two of them, it's quite clear which one they are going get rid off.

But of course Detroit could start the next season with 8 D-men.

Walman - Seider
Edvinsson - Chiarot
Määttä - Petry
Johansson - Holl

 

[Hobnobs]

Chiarot gets much bigger minutes from the coaching staff than Määttä. Määttä plays quite sheltered role, if there is a desicion between the two of them, it's quite clear which one they are going get rid off.

But of course Detroit could start the next season with 8 D-men.

Walman - Seider
Edvinsson - Chiarot
Määttä - Petry
Johansson - Holl

7*

I already stated we get rid of Holl with a sweetener.