Value of: DET cost to upgrade Copp Petry to Schenn Krug

[stl76]

to St Louis Blues :
Copp (3y @ $5.6250m)
Petry (1y @ $2.3438m) ---> 1 yr rental / stop-gap
Maatta (1y @ $3.0000m) ---> 1 yr rental / stop-gap (cap dump)
pick/prospect/multiple ---> you tell me what makes sense
total cap = $10.9688m (opens up $2.0312m plus extra D on roster)

to Detroit Red Wings :
Schenn (4y @ $6.5000m)
Krug (3y @ $6.5000m)
total cap = $13.0000m (taking on $2.0312m plus Edvinsson cap hit)

This is IMO good for Detroit now and good for St Louis in the longer term. The questions are: does STL realize they likely aren't in an ideal position to win a cup next summer? Would they be willing to take a temporary step back for a better long-term? What would it cost Detroit to swap these players out? Which pick/prospect (or multiple) is enough to make St Louis agree to do this?

( I know "Copp is negative value" comments are coming. Okay, so, question remains: what's the cost to do this?)

For Detroit, they'd probably like an upgrade at 2C without logjamming Kasper and Danielson. Schenn can play LW, and I've seen Blues fans saying that they hope STL can move him to LW sooner or later. DET has the option to play Schenn at center now and then LW later when Kasper or Danielson are ready for the NHL. Compher can play RW as well, so the plan to have Larkin Kasper and Danielson down the middle still works here. Maatta leaving opens up a permanent spot for Edvinsson. Krug is a big upgrade on Petry obviously. One of Walman Edvinsson Johansson Chiarot would move to RD for now. Overall, the D looks way stronger after this trade.

For St Louis, they've been looking to move on from Krug while also getting some value. This move does make sense for their D long-term, but makes them worse this year, which some might consider an issue. I don't think they're a real contender this year though. The RHD is locked in until 2027 with Parayko Faulk and some third guy, which is fine. No big RD prospects coming. The LD starts as Leddy and then in any order (based on performance) Perunovich Maatta Tucker. Loof and Lindstein will be coming, but Maatta is a just a 1 year stop-gap contract, and Leddy has only 2 years left. Copp is a downgrade on Schenn, but is cheaper and 1 less year. With Dean and Bolduc coming now or soon and Dvorsky, Snuggerud, Stenberg on the way, a shorter contract for lower cap top 9 forward probably fits the plan better. Copp can also play wing if pure center kids make the team. I think the most logical "plus" STL gets in this trade is a LHD prospect to bolster Perunovich Tucker Loof Lindstein as the LHD group of the future. A RHD prospect would be logical as well, but DET doesn't have any good ones they would be willing to trade, as far as I know.

Krug - Seider
Walman - Edvinsson
(Johansson/Chiarot) - Holl
7 = (Johansson/Chiarot)
Walman, Holl and Chiarot expire in 2026.
DET considers buying out Holl or Chiarot maybe next summer (?)
Wallinder, Buium (LHD) and Sandin-Pelikka (RHD) in the pipeline.

Leddy - Parayko
(Maatta/Perunovich) - Faulk
(Maatta/Perunovich) - Petry
7 = Tucker
Maatta and Petry expire in 2025.
Leddy expires in 2026. Faulk in 2027.
Lindstein and Loof (both LHD) in the pipeline.

( EDITED this original post to add Petry and remove Holl )

Why don’t we just simplify this and say Copp to the Blues for futures?

It would allow Detroit to go hunting for a better fit at C thru UFA or other trades. Plus the Blues aren’t going to want to move Schenn and he has a full NTC thru next season.

Would the wings 24 1st be too much to ask for taking on Copp?

 

[PocketNines]

I don't really care about the exact specifics of their NTCs.

With Torey Krug, his NTC prevented him from being traded last summer, and he was brought in to replace Pietrangelo on the grounds that Pietrangelo would want too much power to decline a potential trade. That is why Doug Armstrong should wear a clown suit to his Old School hockey functions where he is president.

It very specifically matters with Krug, who in 50 years is one of the biggest jokes I've ever seen. He is a tiny turd, a bum. We Blues fans are completely stunned that Wings fans want him. I would trade him into the center of the sun for future considerations but his NTC very problematically means he has to stay on the Blues and collect 8.5 million real dollars this year to be god damn wretched.

 

[SantosHalper]

We Blues fans are completely stunned that Wings fans want him.

Not true, fake news. I don't want him and im quite sure others don't want him either.

 

[PocketNines]

Not true, fake news. I don't want him and im quite sure others don't want him either.

My bad I thought this thread existed

 

[SantosHalper]

My bad I thought this thread existed

Correction, thread started by a Leafs fan

 

[norrisnick]

With Torey Krug, his NTC prevented him from being traded last summer, and he was brought in to replace Pietrangelo on the grounds that Pietrangelo would want too much power to decline a potential trade. That is why Doug Armstrong should wear a clown suit to his Old School hockey functions where he is president.

It very specifically matters with Krug, who in 50 years is one of the biggest jokes I've ever seen. He is a tiny turd, a bum. We Blues fans are completely stunned that Wings fans want him. I would trade him into the center of the sun for future considerations but his NTC very problematically means he has to stay on the Blues and collect 8.5 million real dollars this year to be god damn wretched.

Wings fans categorically do not want Torey Krug.

 

[iago]

It's due to Edvinsson being NHL ready NOW and DET having a LHD log-jam.

Wallinder and Buium will also be ready soon-ish at LHD, in the next 2 seasons.

DET has on the roster :
1 - Walman who they want to keep for now
2 - Chiarot who they can't trade without paying a team to take him
3 - Albert Johansson who is young, ready and can't go to AHL without waivers
4 - Maatta who is fine but isn't in their long-term plans

One of those 4 needs to go to make room for Edvinsson, and the other three make way less sense to trade out than Maatta for the above reasons.

I'm not so sure about Walman. He has a tendency to make horrible decisions with the puck in our zone that gift Grada A scoring chances/goals to the other team. He is in no way, shape orform a #1 pair LD. If he has any market value, I can see him as trade bait.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Why don’t we just simplify this and say Copp to the Blues for futures?

STL has 5 higher end top 9 forward prospects coming. Dean and Bolduc are ready or almost ready, and Snuggerud, Dvorsky and Stenberg are 1 to 3 years away. More than maybe any other team in the league, they need to make room in their top 9 for good young kids. Thomas, Kyrou and Neighbours are staying. Buchnevich has 1 year left. Saad and Hayes have 2 years left. Schenn has 4 years left.

If you're trying to add a multi year multi million dollar top 9 forward to STL, in most cases, they're probably not going to be interested. The only reason Copp is in this deal is because one of Schenn Saad Hayes is going back the other way. Just adding Copp without moving out Schenn or Saad or Hayes is just going to create a top 9 forward log-jam, and all of those kids might end up outplaying Copp.

 

[stl76]

STL has 5 higher end top 9 forward prospects coming. Dean and Bolduc are ready or almost ready, and Snuggerud, Dvorsky and Stenberg are 1 to 3 years away. More than maybe any other team in the league, they need to make room in their top 9 for good young kids. Thomas, Kyrou and Neighbours are staying. Buchnevich has 1 year left. Saad and Hayes have 2 years left. Schenn has 4 years left.

If you're trying to add a multi year multi million dollar top 9 forward to STL, in most cases, they're probably not going to be interested. The only reason Copp is in this deal is because one of Schenn Saad Hayes is going back the other way. Just adding Copp without moving out Schenn or Saad or Hayes is just going to create a top 9 forward log-jam, and all of those kids might end up outplaying Copp.

I am quite familiar with the Blues prospect pool and roster. None of this means they should not look to take on a short-ish term cap dump if it comes with a good positive value asset.

There would be no log jam. Players you mentioned (Saad, Hayes, etc) will likely be traded before their contracts end if they have positive value. With any cap dump the Blues take, the goal would be to rehabilitate their value then trade them for a positive return before their contract ends. This is basic asset management. Worst case, you just waive Copp or whomever if a log jam materializes.