Post-Game Talk: Destroyed by Veggies

[leetch99]

I'm arguing that I don't care how he looks and certainly I don't care at all if he wins the Norris again. He gets the same Norris caliber results season over season, Professional Hockey Writers' Association be damned.

So I don't really know what your point is. He's not throwing highlight reel jukes as often and somehow that matters? You don't seem to have an understanding of the player and what has ever made him successful so it's not surprising that you think he won't be effective moving forward.

Even just looking at the boxcar stats he's on pace for an almost identical scoring season to the year he won the Norris, and to you that signals a major decline apparently.

You keep enjoying him...as he likely will be here for a long time . LOL.....

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

I do think the knee hits have been a factor. I also think he's adapting his game to defend more. He can say he likes Lindgren all he wants; he knows he's playing two positions in the lizard part of his brain.

You could get him somebody really sound on the left and set him free, but I'd be interested in leaning into his defense and getting somebody who can score to play on his left side.

Would be really cool to have a LD who could shoot off all the advantages he creates.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think he is overrated and I will continue with my belief until proven wrong . I think it is a safe bet he never wins a Norris again . His skating seems slower and he seems really hesitant to shoot....or even think about physical contact it seems this season and I don't think Lindgren is his problem ....I think teams know his moves and style on the PP and as such there is little he can do within his physical dimensions to disable that factor , He is not going to suddenly get faster-smarter or younger-bigger.....and you simply can't blame that on Lindgren . He is small in stature/size and never was a great skater N/S . He does not shock and awe teams anymore . Maybe once he has somebody to help him out -bail him out....he will look better ? That seems to be what you were implying ? Yes...I agree...that should make him look better .

I see a lot of blame put on Lindy for Fox but very rarely see credit put on our goaltending for Fox.

 

[Raspewtin]

I see a lot of blame put on Lindy for Fox but very rarely see credit put on our goaltending for Fox.

Why would we credit goaltending for Fox? Because his goal based stats look good?

 

[hackeyman]

Find the next Makar in the draft .

You might have to wait for 2027 for that.

 

[leetch99]

I see a lot of blame put on Lindy for Fox but very rarely see credit put on our goaltending for Fox.

Yeah....there are many contradictions in some of the replies to my posts . I feel pretty good about what I said . Geesh....I would not want to even get into what you stated LOL....Anyways...we have Fox and many clubs don't have a guy like him so I guess we live with it until otherwise . Shesty has made many look good back there along with Hank . We have been lucky .

 

[NickyFotiu]

Why would we credit goaltending for Fox? Because his goal based stats look good?

Would a players defensive stats look as good with poor goaltending?

 

[Raspewtin]

Would a players defensive stats look as good with poor goaltending?

his goal based ones would, yeah, but that's one benchmark of many.

Fox is 12th for defensemen in 5 on 5 on ice sv% since 2022 but he's also 2nd in relCA/60 and 11th in relxGA/60; which are not affected by sv%.

Lindgren gets blamed for a lot of what happens with Fox because he's one of the worst regular defensemen in the league and his grave inefficiency with moving the puck and making decisions allow Fox to get double teamed a lot. Plus, Lindgren's negative offensive zone hockey IQ puts a lot more pressure on Fox to make risky plays or risk being largely ineffective. It's just a fact.

 

[will1066]

I'm arguing that I don't care how he looks and certainly I don't care at all if he wins the Norris again. He gets the same Norris caliber results season over season, Professional Hockey Writers' Association be damned.

So I don't really know what your point is. He's not throwing highlight reel jukes as often and somehow that matters? You don't seem to have an understanding of the player and what has ever made him successful so it's not surprising that you think he won't be effective moving forward.

Even just looking at the boxcar stats he's on pace for an almost identical scoring season to the year he won the Norris, and to you that signals a major decline apparently.

I get why you pulled up his Norris-winning year stats to compare with this season. The goalposts to winning Norris have moved since Karlsson shattered dman stats. Plus, 2020-21 was a shortened season, so that will forever be some kind of asterisk. Fox paced at PPG last season and still was a good 20 points behind trophy winner Quinn Hughes. Makar won the trophy at over a PPG pace. The only season Fox paced PPG was last season, and comparing it to this year has more relevancy than comparing with his Norris-winning season. He would need to get back to a PPG pace and play all remaining games available just to tie his total points last year. Goal-scoring wise, he probably will get more than 5, his career-low, which was actually in his Norris-winning season. But 2 of his 3 this season were ENGs, iirc.

 

[TheDirtyH]

his non-goal based ones would, yeah, but that's one benchmark of many.

Fox is 12th for defensemen in 5 on 5 on ice sv% since 2022 but he's also 2nd in relCA/60 and 11th in relxGA/60; which are not affected by sv%.

Lindgren gets blamed for a lot of what happens with Fox because he's one of the worst regular defensemen in the league and his grave inefficiency with moving the puck and making decisions allow Fox to get double teamed a lot. Plus, Lindgren's negative offensive zone hockey IQ puts a lot more pressure on Fox to make risky plays or risk being largely ineffective. It's just a fact.

You're missing the point.

Makar is much faster.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I get why you pulled up his Norris-winning year stats to compare with this season. The goalposts to winning Norris have moved since Karlsson shattered dman stats. Plus, 2020-21 was a shortened season, so that will forever be some kind of asterisk. Fox paced at PPG last season and still was a good 20 points behind trophy winner Quinn Hughes. Makar won the trophy at over a PPG pace. The only season Fox paced PPG was last season, and comparing it to this year has more relevancy than comparing with his Norris-winning season. He would need to get back to a PPG pace and play all remaining games available just to tie his total points last year.

Last season? You mean the one that first showed his precipitous decline?

I compare it bc to your point it doesn't matter. The Norris is voted on by ESPN bloggers. Who gives a shit? Of course they like counting stats better. They also like fast skating.

What I like, before any of those things, is results, and for defenseman that has to include defense don't you think? fox gets as good or better results as anyone in the league including Cale. And he does so with less.

Seriously people are now saying shesterkin is the one making fox look good. Cale plays every minute of his career with the best player of this era not named mcdavid but Fox is carried by his teammates.

People here are just haters sometimes it's ridiculous.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I see a lot of blame put on Lindy for Fox but very rarely see credit put on our goaltending for Fox.

Every player on our team has the same goaltending...

 

[Larrybiv]

Panarin’s selfish play is getting really old. The power play cost us the game.

I think thats kind of unfair to say. For years we've wanted Panarin to shoot more, and now that he has been.......we're complaining? He's frustrated as it seems he's been hitting a LOT of posts/crossbars lately. Now, if you mean selfish as in "staying on the ice too long" well that might be true, but only he would know. I mean, how many times he's produced when towards the end of a shift? There's no way to govern that. Me thinks.

 

[will1066]

Last season? You mean the one that first showed his precipitous decline?

I compare it bc to your point it doesn't matter. The Norris is voted on by ESPN bloggers. Who gives a shit? Of course they like counting stats better. They also like fast skating.

What I like, before any of those things, is results, and for defenseman that has to include defense don't you think? fox gets as good or better results as anyone in the league including Cale. And he does so with less.

Seriously people are now saying shesterkin is the one making fox look good. Cale plays every minute of his career with the best player of this era not named mcdavid but Fox is carried by his teammates.

People here are just haters sometimes it's ridiculous.

I'm not in this board flare-up about Fox to say whether he's declining or not. I'm looking at just the boxcar numbers.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Last season? You mean the one that first showed his precipitous decline?

I compare it bc to your point it doesn't matter. The Norris is voted on by ESPN bloggers. Who gives a shit? Of course they like counting stats better. They also like fast skating.

What I like, before any of those things, is results, and for defenseman that has to include defense don't you think? fox gets as good or better results as anyone in the league including Cale. And he does so with less.

Seriously people are now saying shesterkin is the one making fox look good. Cale plays every minute of his career with the best player of this era not named mcdavid but Fox is carried by his teammates.

People here are just haters sometimes it's ridiculous.

The only player you're not allowed to shit on the Rangers board is Shesty because Shesty being the greatest goalie ever makes it easier to shit on the rest of the team.

 

[Larrybiv]

Bread giveth and taketh away..and if Mika is gonna fumble passes,force passes and shank shots on the power play,just put Laf back on it

What they really need to do (but won't happen) is put Carrick on PP1, rid Zib from it. Yes, I said Carrick. Every PP needs to have someone that RETRIEVES loose pucks, do we have any on PP1? Now, he's no offensive machine but dammit if he wouldnt be better.

 

[NickyFotiu]

What they really need to do (but won't happen) is put Carrick on PP1, rid Zib from it. Yes, I said Carrick. Every PP needs to have someone that RETRIEVES loose pucks, do we have any on PP1? Now, he's no offensive machine but dammit if he wouldnt be better.

Back in the day we called them cornermen. Don Maloney was a great cornerman for Espo when he came up.

 

[Larrybiv]

PP1 with selfish hockey

That was funny. Love the way he said Tennnnacittty.

 

[Larrybiv]

Miller is everyone on the ice for these people every time someone other than Miller f***s up.

They're stupid if they say it's Miller's "fault" but I dimply don't understand what he's doing down deep, he's a defenseman with major speed that should be up top....just in case. Funny how Tro is killing himself to be in front, with absolutely NO chance or wherewithal to get it there some friggin how! wouldn't that be the best time to get it in front, or be passive KNOWING their 5th guy is coming out soon? Where was the stick banging? I didn't hear it, did you?

 

[Larrybiv]

Feel for Borgen, scored a goal and started the play on the Bread goal, and just goes disasterclass to end it.

He goofed, oh well. I'm mortified that this "responsible PO team of years past" could EVER do something so pathetic. Nevermind the fact that Zibby just doesnt have a clue. Had that one shot that was labeled, but fan, flub, fan, make a bad pass consistently has gotten OLD.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I'm not in this board flare-up about Fox to say whether he's declining or not. I'm looking at just the boxcar numbers.

I don't know what you're in the flare up for then.

I think that the rapid decline of all four other PP1 regulars might be hurting his base counting stats year over year. Especially when it's been as dramatic as it has been for Zibanejad and Kreider.

Zibanejad scored 10 PP goals by himself in 56 games in 20-21. He's scored 9 goals total in 49 games year.

I'm also someone who thinks that spending 75% of your 5v5 minutes with Lindgren as opposed to Toews or Hronek is less advantageous for 5v5 point scoring totals--not even saying anything about the forwards.

And yet, Fox shooting 0% and with Lindgren and the decrepit Core 4, has an almost identical 5v5p/60 to last season. I know you're not saying anything about a decline, but under the hood, fox's offense has risen relative to the league's as well even in this season where the circumstances really couldn't be more against him.

 

[will1066]

I don't know what you're in the flare up for then.

I think that the rapid decline of all four other PP1 regulars might be hurting his base counting stats year over year. Especially when it's been as dramatic as it has been for Zibanejad and Kreider.

Zibanejad scored 10 PP goals by himself in 56 games in 20-21. He's scored 9 goals total in 49 games year.

I'm also someone who thinks that spending 75% of your 5v5 minutes with Lindgren as opposed to Toews or Hronek is less advantageous for 5v5 point scoring totals--not even saying anything about the forwards.

And yet, Fox shooting 0% and with Lindgren and the decrepit Core 4, has an almost identical 5v5p/60 to last season. I know you're not saying anything about a decline, but under the hood, fox's offense has risen relative to the league's as well even in this season where the circumstances really couldn't be more against him.

I'm bored at work!

 

[leetch99]

his goal based ones would, yeah, but that's one benchmark of many.

Fox is 12th for defensemen in 5 on 5 on ice sv% since 2022 but he's also 2nd in relCA/60 and 11th in relxGA/60; which are not affected by sv%.

Lindgren gets blamed for a lot of what happens with Fox because he's one of the worst regular defensemen in the league and his grave inefficiency with moving the puck and making decisions allow Fox to get double teamed a lot. Plus, Lindgren's negative offensive zone hockey IQ puts a lot more pressure on Fox to make risky plays or risk being largely ineffective. It's just a fact.

Size/strength and skating speed also contribute to not so nice/incomplete breakout passing ...not just the Lindgren factor . Anyways...it is what it is . Some of each is right but the fact remains....Makar is indeed better and has been and likely will be in any one on one comparisons now or in the future .

 

[Larrybiv]

With 24 seconds left and only a few seconds left on the power play, Lav put 2 Dmen out on the ice to protect against what actually happened. Miller decided to go to the corner to get the puck, instead of protecting against what actually happened.

Miller going into the corner to "get the puck" is an instinctively good thing to do, 4 other players ther to figure out who will cover for him going deep.

 

[Larrybiv]

Not absolving Zib's plays but the cross ice passes he's getting are less than good. They are mostly muffin passes that by the time they reach him he's got no time and space anymore

Maybe becuse the players passing to him feel he caannot handle anything BUT a muffin pass, as you so adeptly put it? I'm wondering if they are trying to avoid passing it to him.
Also wondering (in regard to the players giving up on Lavy) if they are feeling WHY is Zibby even on the PP? They have eto be thinking anyone would be better right now. And yeah, agree with someone that mentioned Kreider being "just there" in front, waiting and witing for nobody getting it anywhere near the net. Yeah, I guess we are all majorly disgruntled.

And normally I don't bitch that much. Very, very disappointing after they came back from 2 down TWICE. Expected a better result.