Despres hit on Smid

[tarheelhockey]

https://twitter.com/McEicheldotCom/status/543583219170287617

Maybe if Simon actually hit his head, the people wanting a suspension here would have a case.

He drove through his sternum. Head is secondary and this is WITH Smid putting himself in a vulnerable position.

Head contact came first.

 

[The Macho King]

No, I completely disagree. If Smid hadn't played the puck, you're saying the hit that Despres had already engaged would have been clean? He would have been hitting a guy who never played the puck.

Smid's play on the puck was actually an attempt to protect himself. He was prepared for Despres to protect his ice and lay a hit if Smid went in full-force. This was why Smid was off-balance kind of leaning back. He stopped and reached in to chop the puck. What he didn't expect was for Despres to completely abandon the puck (prior to Smid playing it) and drive through him as he touched it. He was expecting Despres to at least contend for the loose puck which Despres had positioning on.

I love these arguments that gets into the players head about what they did and didn't expect. So playing the puck put Smid in the vulnerable position?

Then don't play the puck, take the hit, and get a two minute powerplay for interference.

 

[The Macho King]

Head contact came first.

And look at how crouched Smid is. Of course head contact came first - he's leading with his head.

It's like none of you have read the rules. I have zero dogs in this fight - hell if anything I have a bias against the Penguins, but this is a clean hockey hit made bad by Smid ducking away from contact.

 

[Rectify]

Head contact came first.

I love how the picture proves the hit was clean.

 

[tarheelhockey]

So it's on Despres to make sure Smid doesn't put himself in a bad position?

The entire reason they removed the "targeting" language from Rule 48 was to make it clear that the onus is on the hitter to make sure that he's establishing a full body hit. In this case, where Despres was extremely well positioned to observe Smid's body position and anticipate that he HAD to bend his knees in order to play the puck, it's on Despres to not decide to throw a high hit that gets Smid right in the face.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

I was going to say, the fact that Follower of Yzlam is so adament in his stance is pretty damn telling to me considering he's usually super negative about the Penguins

There is a responsibility on the hitter, but the guy getting hit also can't put themself in such an awkward position. The fact that Smid went low to get the puck is what made the hit as bad as it was, and it is also is what made it legal. If he ignores the puck and stays up he bounces right back up and the Flames get a PP for interference.

The league obviously sees it that way as the Penguins have a game in less than 6 hours and there's nothing coming out of it.

Personally I think calling that hit 'predatory' shows just how much that word has lost its meaning. Every big hit isn't predatory, especially when the guy getting hit is crouched and the shoulder is tucked all the way.

 

[The Macho King]

The entire reason they removed the "targeting" language from Rule 48 was to make it clear that the onus is on the hitter to make sure that he's establishing a full body hit. In this case, where Despres was extremely well positioned to observe Smid's body position and anticipate that he HAD to bend his knees in order to play the puck, it's on Despres to not decide to throw a high hit that gets Smid right in the face.

A) You have no evidence that the targeting language was added for that reason, and B) it certainly hasn't been interpreted like that either in the past or earlier this season. Beyond that, you're just stating what you think the rule should be, and extrapolating from that.

In fact, to your first point, I would say it's the exact opposite. The targeting language is put in to show that incidental head contact when a full body check is lined up should not be punished.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I love how the picture proves the hit was clean.

Then make that argument, but don't support an untruth that claims Smid was hit in the sternum.

 

[tarheelhockey]

A) You have no evidence that the targeting language was added for that reason, and B) it certainly hasn't been interpreted like that either in the past or earlier this season. Beyond that, you're just stating what you think the rule should be, and extrapolating from that.

In fact, to your first point, I would say it's the exact opposite. The targeting language is put in to show that incidental head contact when a full body check is lined up should not be punished.

The targeting language was removed, not added.

The rest of your post is moot because you have the facts backward.

 

[The Macho King]

The targeting language was removed, not added.

The rest of your post is moot because you have the facts backward.

The rest of the post certainly isn't moot. The fact is the league has not interpreted the rule like that at any point this season. People were clammoring for Gudas to get suspended on a fairly similar hit, and nothing came of it.

The player getting hit has a responsibility of not putting themselves in a vulnerable position. That's why Martin wasn't suspended for blowing up Ballard, Gudas wasn't suspended for his hit on Upshall. When a hit would have otherwise been clean, but the person getting hit tries to avoid the contact and thereby is in a more vulnerable position and the contact is in the head, the hit is not dirty.

 

[Anglesmith]

I love these arguments that gets into the players head about what they did and didn't expect. So playing the puck put Smid in the vulnerable position?

Then don't play the puck, take the hit, and get a two minute powerplay for interference.

In this case, I think it was a matter of both players being surprised by the other player. Despres' actions indicate that he expected the whole time that Smid would challenge him physically instead of playing the puck. Otherwise he would surely have just played the puck and not bothered with Smid, who was behind in the race anyway.

Meanwhile, Smid seemed to think Despres was going to play the puck and protect his ice, so instead of challenging physically he tried to get his stick in. It's easy to say "don't play the puck, take the hit and draw a penalty" but in reality if a player goes in there and doesn't take the puck or the body, he ends up looking really bad if the opponent simply takes the puck and goes. Like I said, I think Smid thought he was safe if he didn't challenge Despres' ice.

 

[Rectify]

Then make that argument, but don't support an untruth that claims Smid was hit in the sternum.

I was going to say, the fact that Follower of Yzlam is so adament in his stance is pretty damn telling to me considering he's usually super negative about the Penguins

There is a responsibility on the hitter, but the guy getting hit also can't put themself in such an awkward position. The fact that Smid went low to get the puck is what made the hit as bad as it was, and it is also is what made it legal. If he ignores the puck and stays up he bounces right back up and the Flames get a PP for interference.

The league obviously sees it that way as the Penguins have a game in less than 6 hours and there's nothing coming out of it.

Personally I think calling that hit 'predatory' shows just how much that word has lost its meaning. Every big hit isn't predatory, especially when the guy getting hit is crouched and the shoulder is tucked all the way.

I was going to say basically everything big said, so no need to make this into an argument.

If Smid wouldn't have bent over to poke at the puck, the hit would have been to his chest. Textbook hit and hockey play by Despres, take out the man before going after the puck. Like it has been mentioned before, Letang used to so the same BS Smid did until he got smart.

 

[The Macho King]

I was going to say basically everything big said, so no need to make this into an argument.

If Smid wouldn't have bent over to poke at the puck the hit would have been to his chest. Textbook hit and hockey play by Despres, take out the man before going after the puck. Like it has been mentioned before, Letang used to so the same BS Smid did until he got smart(er).

Sorry, had to fix that. I am offended by any suggestion that Letang is a smart hockey player.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Despres made the cleanest check he could make given the circumstances. He was committed to eliminating Smid from the play. Despres got lucky that Smid touched the puck and he drove through his body more even though Smid put himself in a bad position.

 

[Rectify]

Sorry, had to fix that. I am offended by any suggestion that Letang is a smart hockey player.

Yea, I probably should have specified better.

 

[Shockmaster]

Doesn't look like there will be a hearing for this hit.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The rest of the post certainly isn't moot. The fact is the league has not interpreted the rule like that at any point this season. People were clammoring for Gudas to get suspended on a fairly similar hit, and nothing came of it.

So go back to the first sentence of my first post on this topic: "This is exactly the kind of stupid, predatory hit that needs to come out of the game if we want these guys to have brain cells left after age 30. "

If the league is interpreting the rules such that a player is encouraged to ignore a loose puck and try to blow up the closest guy to it, then the league needs to smarten up. They've come a long way from just a few years ago when headshots in general were regarded as "hockey plays", but obviously there's still some adjustment left to be done.

 

[The Macho King]

So go back to the first sentence of my first post on this topic: "This is exactly the kind of stupid, predatory hit that needs to come out of the game if we want these guys to have brain cells left after age 30. "

If the league is interpreting the rules such that a player is encouraged to ignore a loose puck and try to blow up the closest guy to it, then the league needs to smarten up. They've come a long way from just a few years ago when headshots in general were regarded as "hockey plays", but obviously there's still some adjustment left to be done.

So once again, you're interpreting the rule as you think it should be applied, not how the league has applied it. Unless the league goes to a system where all head contact is per se against the rules, this hit will not be a suspendable hit. If they go to that rule, I think it would be a damn shame, and don't think the league is headed in that direction.

 

[DearDiary]

Pens next game starts in 5 hours and no hearing. No expectation of one as the Pens just called up 2 forwards and no defensemen.

 

[tarheelhockey]

So once again, you're interpreting the rule as you think it should be applied, not how the league has applied it.

I'm saying I disagree with the league's interpretation of the rule in this instance (assuming their silence is consent) since this hit is just as unnecessary and dangerous as the ones they've routinely targeted with rule 48.

Unless the league goes to a system where all head contact is per se against the rules, this hit will not be a suspendable hit.

Not really.

 

[DearDiary]

I'm saying I disagree with the league's interpretation of the rule in this instance (assuming their silence is consent) since this hit is just as unnecessary and dangerous as the ones they've routinely targeted with rule 48.

What exactly is dangerous about the hit? Despres had him lined up for a clean hit. This is Smid's 10th season in the NHL, he decides to lean in the worst spot on the ice, and then tries to avoid the hit far too late. You don't make that play behind your opponents net.

 

[Shrimper]

Smid doesn't duck and that is a chest hit. Shouldn't be anything.

 

[Siamese Dream]

What is Smid supposed to do, just not bother playing the puck?

 

[wej20]

What is Smid supposed to do, just not bother playing the puck?

He's not supposed to reach in like that that is for sure.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I am going to bullet point each statement from my previous post, verbatim, that addressed this issue of what Despres should or should not have done:


- He can see the entire play developing and yes -- it's on HIM to be aware of how the play develops from this point forward and react accordingly.

- It's now 100% on Despres to make sure that hit is clean and legal.

- Again -- it is 100% Despres' responsibility to be sure that the hit is clean and legal.

- Despres was in a position to do whatever he wanted to do there, so he assumed full responsibility for the consequences.


Hopefully it's clear now.

I never argued Despres didn't see the play develop. He committed to the hit from the bottom of the circle. That's how you line guys up. I've did it countless times. You don't just get to the guy and then decide to line him up in that situation. You see the guy, check his angle, then line him up.

By the time Despres committed to the hit, and was about to lay into Smid, Smid decided instead of playing through the puck, that he should reach out and poke it. Dumb idea and he should know better.

You aren't taught to pull short like that. You play through the puck in that situation. On the flip side, a blueliner is taught to cut you off and separate you from the puck. Despres made the perfect play. Going for the puck there wasn't his job.

Smid made a bad choice and got waxed. That's hockey.